Hi Everyone,

now with the arrive of Wave V there is a new obstacle in the Game... debris cloud.

Before this the core book say that you need to use 6 unique asteroids Token, but now is different.

For example I have bought 2 x YT-2400 so I have 6 Debris (3 Unique Debris, two of each type) and 6 Asteroids (6 unique Asteroids).

During the setup of game I can choose beetwen 12 different obastacles. Starting First, can I put in the Game Field 1 Big Asteroid and 2 Big Debris Cloud (same token)?

I do not find anywhere in the rules the the 6 obstacles in the field need to be UNIQUE!

Thank you in advance

Debris clouds are used in the new scenarios that came with the 2400 and decimator, and not as a replacement for the existing asteroids. You're free to use them in casual play for however you like though.

Debris clouds are used in the new scenarios that came with the 2400 and decimator, and not as a replacement for the existing asteroids. You're free to use them in casual play for however you like though.

Wrong. Page 2 of the rules in the Decimator read as follows:

"Debris clouds are obstacles as described in the core rulebook with the following exceptions...."

Therefore, since they fall in the same category as asteroids, they are legal for tournaments as well. They have not updated the tournament rules to indicate as much, but since they are labeled as such, they should be legal as they are considered the same type of components found in the core rules.

Debris clouds are used in the new scenarios that came with the 2400 and decimator, and not as a replacement for the existing asteroids. You're free to use them in casual play for however you like though.

Wrong. Page 2 of the rules in the Decimator read as follows:

"Debris clouds are obstacles as described in the core rulebook with the following exceptions...."

Therefore, since they fall in the same category as asteroids, they are legal for tournaments as well. They have not updated the tournament rules to indicate as much, but since they are labeled as such, they should be legal as they are considered the same type of components found in the core rules.

Page 2 of the Tournament rules, Step 5 of the Squad Deployment Procedure…

"The player with initiative places the six unique asteroid tokens from his core set next to the play area."

That pretty clearly states that debris tokens are not allowed in tournament play.

Well I wouldn't say that it clearly says "debris tokens are not allowed". It just doesn't include them as yet. They may become an option later.

Well I wouldn't say that it clearly says debris tokens are not allowed.

It says in the clearest possible way that asteroids should be used. Not obstacles, not debris clouds, not anything. Asteroids.

But things change, maybe they will be allowed some time in the future.

Debris clouds are used in the new scenarios that came with the 2400 and decimator, and not as a replacement for the existing asteroids. You're free to use them in casual play for however you like though.

Wrong. Page 2 of the rules in the Decimator read as follows:

"Debris clouds are obstacles as described in the core rulebook with the following exceptions...."

Therefore, since they fall in the same category as asteroids, they are legal for tournaments as well. They have not updated the tournament rules to indicate as much, but since they are labeled as such, they should be legal as they are considered the same type of components found in the core rules.

Page 2 of the Tournament rules, Step 5 of the Squad Deployment Procedure…

"The player with initiative places the six unique asteroid tokens from his core set next to the play area."

That pretty clearly states that debris tokens are not allowed in tournament play.

Check the date, it was back in October. That was before these new obstacles were released. I would expect an updated Tournament rules in the very near future, at least before regionals that allows any 6 obstacles.

Check the date, it was back in October. That was before these new obstacles were released. I would expect an updated Tournament rules in the very near future,

So would I. That doesn't change the fact that CURRENTLY the tournament rule very specifically say to use asteroids.

Anything is possible.

I am actually expecting them to release an updated FAQ soon too, probably with the release of Scum.

However, I am actually expecting them to keep the rules the same and clarify that debris fields are not used in tournaments (however TO's are more than welcome to include them for local events).

It would be most consistent with their desire that only components from the core set are actually REQUIRED to play, the rest is up to you. If they make debris fields tournament legal, and still require all attendees to have every component needed, then they are basically saying, "If you want to play in tournaments, you must buy the YT-2400 and the VT-49 on top of the core set."

Not legal yet, unless TO indicates such.

It would be most consistent with there desire that only components from the core set are actually REQUIRED to play, the rest is up to you. If they make debris fields tournament legal, and still require all attendees to have every component needed, then they are basically saying, "If you want to play in tournaments, you must buy the YT-2400 and the VT-49 on top of the core set."

I'm expecting something along the lines of each person being able to replace the 3 asteroids they place with debris fields, if they want to and have them. Players won't be required to have debris fields, but can use them if they have them and want to.

Until the rules for debris is included in the FAQ rather than the specific ship rules I'd guess, officially at least, there not for tournaments. Yet

Umm, as people have already said above.

It would be most consistent with there desire that only components from the core set are actually REQUIRED to play, the rest is up to you. If they make debris fields tournament legal, and still require all attendees to have every component needed, then they are basically saying, "If you want to play in tournaments, you must buy the YT-2400 and the VT-49 on top of the core set."

I'm expecting something along the lines of each person being able to replace the 3 asteroids they place with debris fields, if they want to and have them. Players won't be required to have debris fields, but can use them if they have them and want to.

Actually that seems like a really fair and reasonable suggestion. I'm not about to buy a YT-2400 or VT-49 in the very near future, just to get debris clouds. Can anyone confirm if they are the same sizes and shapes in either ship expansion?

Can anyone confirm if they are the same sizes and shapes in either ship expansion?

As each other or as the asteroids?

All 6 debris fields are different shapes and sizes, but the sizes are comparable to the asteroids, possibly a tad larger.

Clearly they're different from the asteroids. I was just wondering if you got the same set in the VT-49 as the set in the YT-2400.

No, they are different.

A nice touch is that the ones in the outrider pack show wrecked imperial ships while the ones in the decimator pack show wrecked rebel ships.

I put in a question to FFG, so we'll see how they respond. However, as others have pointed out, unless your TO says otherwise, the tourney rules are potentially outdated but restrict players to asteroids.

According to the tournament rules, the player with initiative is supposed to provide the asteroids.

I think it would be a really great way to freshen up the tournament scene if you were allowed a mix of asteroids and/or debris tokens as your 6 obstacles and that winning initiative had a bit more meaning than it does right now.

I hope that this is what they do in the next tournament rules update, if they don't I feel it would have been a great opportunity missed.

I disagree Mace. Here you are giving an outright benefit to someone with initiative. This seems to be something they are avoiding.

At the moment, initiative is not generally a benefit, or a hindrance, it is merely a timing mechanism. Yes, you can build squads that will benefit from initiative and vice versa, but in all cases you have a risk of coming up against that equal PS and having to move first or shoot last.

I disagree Mace. Here you are giving an outright benefit to someone with initiative. This seems to be something they are avoiding.

I assume you mean FFG, indeed they may be of that opinion, but if this is the case then I see no other mechanism as to incorporating debris into tournament play.

as my suggestion is optional for each player it allows debris to be added at a players discretion. As has been stated previously as debris come in expansion packs and not in the core set they cannot in any way be made mandatory.

Also in terms of wanting initiative I would argue that there is already a skew towards taking initiative, with only niche low PS Bomber squads sometimes not wanting initiative, and even then its only sometimes. My suggestion would only further add to the existing bias towards taking initiative.

Lastly having played with debris and asteroids (though admittedly fewer with debris) I have yet to see a significant determinable difference, I might be wrong but either way it would changes things up somewhat from the current slightly stagnant setup.

Also in terms of wanting initiative I would argue that there is already a skew towards taking initiative, with only niche low PS Bomber squads sometimes not wanting initiative, and even then its only sometimes. My suggestion would only further add to the existing bias towards taking initiative.

Actually, I find myself regularly turning down the initiative when running VI whisper and I see a PS 9 on the other side of the field.

Lastly having played with debris and asteroids (though admittedly fewer with debris) I have yet to see a significant determinable difference, I might be wrong but either way it would changes things up somewhat from the current slightly stagnant setup.

Keyan instantly comes to mind, but also anyone who can benefit from being obstructed and having an attack and doesn't mind the stress. They are also generally bigger than the normal asteroids.

I am actually expecting them to release an updated FAQ soon too, probably with the release of Scum.

However, I am actually expecting them to keep the rules the same and clarify that debris fields are not used in tournaments (however TO's are more than welcome to include them for local events).

They will definitely have to release updated tournament rules with Scum as the current tourney rules state "Each player may choose to field either a Rebel or Imperial squad, as tournament seeding ignores the player’s faction."

So as far as tournament rules are right now, you can't use Scum in a tournament.

Personally, I would love to play that when you destroy a ship, you replace it's piece with a debris field. =D

Debris clouds are used in the new scenarios that came with the 2400 and decimator, and not as a replacement for the existing asteroids. You're free to use them in casual play for however you like though.

Wrong. Page 2 of the rules in the Decimator read as follows:

"Debris clouds are obstacles as described in the core rulebook with the following exceptions...."

Therefore, since they fall in the same category as asteroids, they are legal for tournaments as well. They have not updated the tournament rules to indicate as much, but since they are labeled as such, they should be legal as they are considered the same type of components found in the core rules.

Page 2 of the Tournament rules, Step 5 of the Squad Deployment Procedure…

"The player with initiative places the six unique asteroid tokens from his core set next to the play area."

That pretty clearly states that debris tokens are not allowed in tournament play.

Check the date, it was back in October. That was before these new obstacles were released. I would expect an updated Tournament rules in the very near future, at least before regionals that allows any 6 obstacles.

A September FAQ included answers to other Wave 5 questions and rule clarifications and they weren't released yet, so it's not as much an "out of date issue" as they may not have decided at that time. I mean, Wave 5 was not legal for World's and they answered questions about it before World's. They could have included something about the debris clouds for after they were released as well. That said, I wouldn't be surprised either if they made them an option for tournaments in the next one but they may have been playing around with ideas as to how to incorporate them in a fair manner.