Rebels as in Star Wars Rebels. The Gozanti's an Imperial ship (yet oddly missing from FFG's perceived Imperial order of battle. The article says it goes straight from VT-49 to Raider)

The Gozanti is hardly the same role as a CR-90. There's a huge difference between a TIE carrier that parks at the edge of a fight, and a point defense corvette that wades into a fight and murders the crap out of enemy fighters.

The Gozanti is a better analog to the GR-75, being a lightly armed transport rather than a dedicated anti-fighter combat ship.

As we looked at ships that were larger than the VT-49 Decimator, the next possibility was the Lancer-class frigate at 250m

The Gozanti is skipped. They state the next ship up in size from the VT-49 is (prior to the development of the Raider) the Lancer.

Just remember, when they were likely developing the Raider, Rebels wasn't released yet. And I don't think they were able to get the info on the Gozanti in time for this release. Besides, it would be more of a Transport size than a Corvette size.

Also, they wanted the wedge shape since they ruled out Star Destroyers.

Yes, the Raider might come up again, yes, the story group might figure "seeing as we've made this, where else can we use it?"

But it was made for FFG. It's not from anywhere, it is not a teaser, it exists so FFG can have a good looking 150m ship to sell.

So you do actually get it. They may use it.

We know it's not a teaser, and we know why it was created. But even you admit that it may be "from somewhere" in the future.

Why are you acting like we're stupid?

You're very dismissive of my point that a ship this size was needed, yet you know there was nothing appropriate at the time it was designed.

And there is much more support for a Ghost than opposition.

Why assume it would have a 360 arc? It could have firespray arcs.

It could also be priced so that if you're facing a ghost there's no way you're facing any of the other freighters.

In short, they could balance it.

I think you just need to get used to the idea it's coming. FFG have expressed interest in doing Rebels stuff at gencon.

We all want to see X Wing continue to flourish, but only releasing ships based on PC games we played in the 90s will only work to exclude new players, who identify with more recent (and canonical) media.

Fresh players + fresh ideas = a game everyone can enjoy for years to come.

I think this is gonna be the biggest problem of getting the majority of the Fourm readers to accept anything out of the box. There seems to be a very determined group of players who want X-Wing to play like the old 90 games. If you go though the threads you can see how many of them start with somthing from the 90's games or a few dozen posts of "well thats not how it was done in the computer game". Although since Disney threw out all the EU stuff doesnt that mean the computer games too?

Disney didn't "throw out" all the EU stuff.

On 1/17/2015 at 10:15 PM, Forgottenlore said:

Every single thread about the raider showing up in rebels has been like this. Nobody has been suggesting that the ship was not created specifically for this game, they have just been speculation where else it COULD be used, now that it exists.

For a less ambiguous example than Lost Stars, the newly released Thrawn novel mentions "Raider-class corvettes". Only for one short battle though - the rest of the novel has mostly Arquitens and ISDs, with the occasional Gozanti.

That IS interesting.

Reading old threads is fun

On 1/17/2015 at 9:34 AM, IronTau said:

But I still don't want a Ghost in X-wing.

...oups

On 1/17/2015 at 5:10 AM, Stormtrooper721 said:

The Raider may have been Moff Tarkin's corvette, The Carrion Spike, from the new novel Tarkin.

Nope. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Carrion_Spike

1 hour ago, haslo said:

Reading old threads is fun

...oups

I could be wrong, but overall the forums feel less... rude these days.

When it gets put into a Disney show (either in one of the Annual movies or Rebels) then it would be canon. Until then you could place it next to the TIE Defender and E-wing.

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

When it gets put into a Disney show (either in one of the Annual movies or Rebels) then it would be canon. Until then you could place it next to the TIE Defender and E-wing.

The TIE Defender was in the show, so just the E-Wing.

5 hours ago, Ironlord said:

For a less ambiguous example than Lost Stars, the newly released Thrawn novel mentions "Raider-class corvettes". Only for one short battle though - the rest of the novel has mostly Arquitens and ISDs, with the occasional Gozanti.

Doesn't the book that comes with the Raider say that they were developed after the Battle of Yavin to fill a hole in Imperial defenses against Rebel starfighters? If so, it's odd they'd show up in the new Thrawn novel as its timeline is BBY as far as I know. I pre-ordered the book but won't get it until Tuesday.

5 hours ago, haslo said:

Reading old threads is fun

...oups

Hehe, I liked that gem as well

46 minutes ago, weisguy119 said:

Doesn't the book that comes with the Raider say that they were developed after the Battle of Yavin

No. The background FFG came with for the raider was that it began production in 6BBY.

4 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

No. The background FFG came with for the raider was that it began production in 6BBY.

My mistake. The Empire sure could've used anti-fighter corvettes at Scarif, Yavin and Endor, then. That was a tactical error that Thrawn would not have made.

15 minutes ago, weisguy119 said:

My mistake. The Empire sure could've used anti-fighter corvettes at Scarif, Yavin and Endor, then. That was a tactical error that Thrawn would not have made.

Scarif wasnt ready for an attack, and Yavin was all Tarkin's overconfidence.

Endor, probably gets the same handwave the interdictor got- they-re there, just not on screen.

41 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

Yavin was all Tarkin's overconfidence.

By all rights the DS should have had a moderate sized fleet of star destroyers and support ships assigned to it as permanent escorts. No matter how good the station is supposed to be on its own, it simp,y wouldn't have not had many, many ships traveling with it.

'Course, then we have a much less dramatic movie.

1 hour ago, weisguy119 said:

My mistake. The Empire sure could've used anti-fighter corvettes at Scarif, Yavin and Endor, then. That was a tactical error that Thrawn would not have made.

That's not really the point of Anti-Fighter vessels like the Raider. Considering that Scariff had a compliment of a hundred or so TIEs (looks like about two wings worth), the need for anti-fighter craft simply isn't there. Similarly, the Death Star was considered impervious to fighter attacks, hence the whole "weakness in the design" plot.

Thrawn won every naval fight he actively participated in. Thrawn's tactics at Endor were flawless - burn off the forest around the shield generator, then put a couple hundred AT-ATs in the area to prevent any ground assault. The Emperor actively ignored him in order to draw the Rebels out.

The Emperor could have used more Star Destroyers more than anti-fighter stuff at Yavin - a single SD would have ended the rebellion then and there...

13 minutes ago, Astech said:

That's not really the point of Anti-Fighter vessels like the Raider. Considering that Scariff had a compliment of a hundred or so TIEs (looks like about two wings worth), the need for anti-fighter craft simply isn't there. Similarly, the Death Star was considered impervious to fighter attacks, hence the whole "weakness in the design" plot.

Thrawn won every naval fight he actively participated in. Thrawn's tactics at Endor were flawless - burn off the forest around the shield generator, then put a couple hundred AT-ATs in the area to prevent any ground assault. The Emperor actively ignored him in order to draw the Rebels out.

The Emperor could have used more Star Destroyers more than anti-fighter stuff at Yavin - a single SD would have ended the rebellion then and there...

I object! What the Emperor did have down on the planet was fine, ether way you look at it, as long as Luke shows up on Endor, everything goes down hill for the Empire. Dont' forget the Emperor had a nice sized detachment of AT-ATs, AT-STs, AT-AAs, possibly AT-MPs, various Dark Trooper types, Storm Commandos, and possibly other special forces, and the wrecked the Rebels ground forces and armor divisions they sent down.

The problem with puting your defensive forces so close to the place your protecting is that enemy forces can then still attack there target, even if they in turn are destroyed. The Alliance had various light hover tanks, two types of heavy tanks, and long range 11 barreled proton torpedo artillery. All of these things were on endor. The reason ironically they didn't reach the base was because the majority of the Imperial forces i mentioned above went out looking for Rebels because they had just found luke and handed him over to Darth Vader.

1 hour ago, Black Knight Leader said:

The Alliance had various light hover tanks, two types of heavy tanks, and long range 11 barreled proton torpedo artillery. All of these things were on endor.

One shuttle of "Parts and technical staff" goes a lot further than I thought.

4 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

One shuttle of "Parts and technical staff" goes a lot further than I thought.

They appear to be dropped after the fleet/s arrived. it was possibly a back up plan to use brute force if they had to if the commando team didn't drop the shield generator.

what's your source?

56 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

what's your source?

Mostly the new and old SW RTS games and the last two SWBF games. Though I don't remember if Endor was in the new RTS yet, it has vehicles in it that were in the games that have them on Endor. Ether way, they were depicted on Endor.

19 hours ago, Black Knight Leader said:

20 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

what's your source?

Mostly the new and old SW RTS games and the last two SWBF games. Though I don't remember if Endor was in the new RTS yet, it has vehicles in it that were in the games that have them on Endor. Ether way, they were depicted on Endor.

Maybe those were added to various games to give the players a familiar place to fight but to my way of thinking it just doesn't work in Cannon. I mean if they can get down and land any kind of ground forces then they should also have been able to get down and launch a direct assault on the Shield Generator. Let's not forget that Han and company had to have shield codes just to get down to Endor; if the shield is up those reinforcments just weren't getting in.

We've seen examples of "shields are not impervious to slow-moving forces on the ground" before - the Naboo shield in TPM, the Atollon shield in Rebels Season 3, the shield on Hoth (probably also one of these) - so maybe the Endor shield could have been walked through as well, with the shield border only being a few km from the shield generator, on the hologram in ROTJ?

Han & Company wanted to land within the shield, and without alerting the Empire to the potential threat.

2 hours ago, StevenO said:

Maybe those were added to various games to give the players a familiar place to fight but to my way of thinking it just doesn't work in Cannon. I mean if they can get down and land any kind of ground forces then they should also have been able to get down and launch a direct assault on the Shield Generator. Let's not forget that Han and company had to have shield codes just to get down to Endor; if the shield is up those reinforcments just weren't getting in.

They needed the codes to appear to be part of the Empire, they could have rushed to the Planet, the Shield Generator does not protect Endor as a whole. The biggest issue is the defense force it self, and even if the Rebels main fleet had the ability to single a SSD, they would have to worry that is and other ships would call for help, bringing reinforcements. With the way the plan was supposed to work, they would quickly rush in after the shields destruction, and then they would assault the Death Star 2 with the Capital ships acting as meat shields for the fighters by blocking line of sight for any imperial cap ships that might show up.

It would be dangerous for Cap ships to try to do a planetary bombardment as they can't see or detect where this shield is in between the planet and the DS2. The shield here is very different than the ones in other movies as it flat out vaporizes whatever touches it unlike in other movies with different models of planetary shields, some act like a solid surface.

There only options, besides the covert infiltration with commandos, was sending in starfighters for bombing, and the mass of armor they deployed. The Star Fighters were really hampered because of the forest coverage and the AT-AAs, AT-AAs are not just anti-starfighter / anti-speeder Walkers, but they have abnormally powerful ECM capabilities. And well, we already talked about the problem the massed armor, artys, and normal ground forces would have had, and did have, when facing the majority of active ground forces. Its not that they could not have won, with extreme casualties, but the odds were very bad for the Rebels using ether tactic, fighters or armor, and they had two jedi / force users at the least involved with the ground fighting.