There are a lot of questionable Career Skill assignments in AoR, like the Rigger having Knowledge (Underworld) rather than Streetwise with the described purpose of knowing how to get the latest in illegal modifications for his signature vehicle. Sadly, finding illegal goods for sale is based upon Streetwise rather than Knowledge (Underworld), so the Rigger knows the likely locations of black markets and the organizations that control them but can't expect to successfully interact with them. Lame.

Then they can just roll their characteristic and still make it just fine. Or pay a measly 5 XP extra and get some ranks in the skill anyway. It's not as though having ranks in a skill is a prerequisite to use it at all.

Or, more importantly, assist your engineer. That would allow your talents to stack with his, you boost his roll. All told a very leadership way to go.

Then they can just roll their characteristic and still make it just fine. Or pay a measly 5 XP extra and get some ranks in the skill anyway. It's not as though having ranks in a skill is a prerequisite to use it at all.

No, having it as a career skill is not a prerequisite, but it seems off to have a skill that appears to be central to some of the functions of the specialization not be career skills while other skills are career skills.

Frankly, for the Commodore, I wish they had special talents allowing for better use of Sensors (from the Computers skill) rather than stuff based upon Mechanics (like Solid Repairs). For the Rigger, I just think that replacing Knowledge (Underworld) with Streetwise makes good sense.

I really like the idea of sensors and/or comm talents for Commodore. Hmm, I will tinker with a new tree build later this week when I have time.

I see Commodore more like Admiral rather than out doing the dirty work like Squadron Leader/Tactician. Kind of like a General behind the scenes, yet the Commodore is on the bridge of the ship fighting. Kind of like Admiral Ackbar. Astrogation to get the ship to the coordinates, Computers for sensors and what not, Education for as Known Schematic says, knowing ship design and Outer Rim, well, where else are you going to hide Rebel Capital Ships, the Core Worlds? Now, with Solid Repairs, I can see substituting one for Mechanics, but I think more appropriately, taking out Solid Repairs and putting in something else. Probably, Coordinated Assault. A coordinated assault of both fighters under his/her command and with the gunners on a capital ship.

For the Rigger, I just think that replacing Knowledge (Underworld) with Streetwise makes good sense.

I envision the Rigger as the guy who says to the PC with Streetwise: "Okay, go here, say this, and don't pay more than this amount." Translating into Boost dice or some other benefits along the way

Solid Repairs could also be used in the other situation where star ships are repaired. Keep in mind the talent is passive, i.e. no check required. No specific skill is called out as being required to be used, only that this benefit occurs when Hull Trauma is repaired.

As per AoR page 257-259 a party may pay approximately 500cr per point of hull trauma to be repaired in a space shipyard, dry dock, space port or garage. i would say that this would be a preferred method for a commodore to repair the ship. In my opinion each rank of solid repairs would grant a point of Hull Trauma repaired for no additional cost, reducing the cost for the total repairs to the ship. this would require GM ruling as you could Break this by saying i repairing 1 point at a time (i would suggest either this only works when the entire ship is repaired or for each point you pay for you may activate the talent)

Another use could be to reduce the time repairs take, essentially saying that while x Hull Trauma was repaired we managed to fix these other issues without needing to do extra work, but still used the parts so cost is the same

The third time, and most common, i could see a commodore using this talent is when directing the engineering department using his leadership skill. In this situation the repairs are better carried out due to better planing and an ability to prioritise the work to be done. this plays to the specs strengths the most, and like others have said the commodore is in charge of a ship, not on the tools.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, in this specialisation, the talent reflects the planing skills, along with their ability to select the right people for the job and their total understanding of the ways in which a ship is repaired.

In the case of the mechanic it is the opposite, that shows ability with the tools, knowledge of the blueprints, understanding of the physical materials being used and the more efficient work being done.

What other specs will we see for the Commander?

A Rebel Cell leader is a great one.

How about a Spy leader? think James Bonds M. managing a huge network of informants and spies.

The third is tricky, possibly some kind of supply lines organiser or army corp type construction leader. it needs to be rebellion themed, and the rebellion has bases to maintain and mouths to feed, someone has to manage these. it crosses a little close to the diplomat, but something along the lines of base defence is what I'm thinking.

What other specs will we see for the Commander?

A Rebel Cell leader is a great one.

How about a Spy leader? think James Bonds M. managing a huge network of informants and spies.

The third is tricky, possibly some kind of supply lines organiser or army corp type construction leader. it needs to be rebellion themed, and the rebellion has bases to maintain and mouths to feed, someone has to manage these. it crosses a little close to the diplomat, but something along the lines of base defence is what I'm thinking.

How about "Spymaster" for that title? That sounds like an awesome spec.

There are a lot of questionable Career Skill assignments in AoR, like the Rigger having Knowledge (Underworld) rather than Streetwise with the described purpose of knowing how to get the latest in illegal modifications for his signature vehicle. Sadly, finding illegal goods for sale is based upon Streetwise rather than Knowledge (Underworld), so the Rigger knows the likely locations of black markets and the organizations that control them but can't expect to successfully interact with them. Lame.

I think this is really a good way of separating knowledge from ability to be honest.

To me it is 100% knowledge where I could illegally buy an automatic weapon in my town, right down to the address and seller, I however would never be able to show up there and get it from him. Impossible. My brother in law however would have no knowledge of where he would be able to find a counterfeit parking license but if anyone would need one he’d be the one you’d send to get it.

Of course the rigger knows where to get the stuff and he will ask his squad made with the big face tattoo and the death sentence in four systems to obtain it for him.

There are a lot of questionable Career Skill assignments in AoR, like the Rigger having Knowledge (Underworld) rather than Streetwise with the described purpose of knowing how to get the latest in illegal modifications for his signature vehicle. Sadly, finding illegal goods for sale is based upon Streetwise rather than Knowledge (Underworld), so the Rigger knows the likely locations of black markets and the organizations that control them but can't expect to successfully interact with them. Lame.

You might have a look at the sections that cover which skills can be purchased, because it sounds like you might be under the impression that only career skills are allowed to be purchased.

Just in case this helps, it is definitely possible to spend XP on skills that aren't career skills! They just cost a few points extra XP, but the great news is that you get more XP when you have adventures. So that's awesome

Anyway, hope that helps! Just because something isn't a career skill doesn't mean you can't buy it. Personally I think that works out well for a character like you're describing. If they happen to be a Rigger who has actual street knowledge, they can use the XP they earn from adventures and buy a couple of ranks in Streetwise (even though it's not a career skill).

Sometimes it's not a case of a poor game design but just us as players overlooking a pretty basic part of the system that was actually given some thought and makes sense.

Sometimes I forget common rules too, but this is a good one to keep in mind. Don't feel embarrassed!

There are a lot of questionable Career Skill assignments in AoR, like the Rigger having Knowledge (Underworld) rather than Streetwise with the described purpose of knowing how to get the latest in illegal modifications for his signature vehicle. Sadly, finding illegal goods for sale is based upon Streetwise rather than Knowledge (Underworld), so the Rigger knows the likely locations of black markets and the organizations that control them but can't expect to successfully interact with them. Lame.

You might have a look at the sections that cover which skills can be purchased, because it sounds like you might be under the impression that only career skills are allowed to be purchased.

Just in case this helps, it is definitely possible to spend XP on skills that aren't career skills! They just cost a few points extra XP, but the great news is that you get more XP when you have adventures. So that's awesome

Anyway, hope that helps! Just because something isn't a career skill doesn't mean you can't buy it. Personally I think that works out well for a character like you're describing. If they happen to be a Rigger who has actual street knowledge, they can use the XP they earn from adventures and buy a couple of ranks in Streetwise (even though it's not a career skill).

Sometimes it's not a case of a poor game design but just us as players overlooking a pretty basic part of the system that was actually given some thought and makes sense.

Sometimes I forget common rules too, but this is a good one to keep in mind. Don't feel embarrassed!

Oh we know you can purchase out of Career skills, it's not that at all. It's why did FFG choose this skill over another skill. That's what we're talking about.

My guess is that it's because having 'book-knowledge' versus 'street-knowledge' makes perfect sense for a 'Rigger' type of character. That might not be the way you'd have written it, but apparently the folks that *did* write it also felt like it made sense.

If your Rigger needs street knowledge, use your XP to buy ranks in Streetwise and realize that an extra 5xp on top doesn't have to be a big deal.

You're welcome!

I think this is really a good way of separating knowledge from ability to be honest.

To me it is 100% knowledge where I could illegally buy an automatic weapon in my town, right down to the address and seller, I however would never be able to show up there and get it from him. Impossible. My brother in law however would have no knowledge of where he would be able to find a counterfeit parking license but if anyone would need one he’d be the one you’d send to get it.

Of course the rigger knows where to get the stuff and he will ask his squad made with the big face tattoo and the death sentence in four systems to obtain it for him.

The earlier episodes of Breaking Bad have some great scenes illustrating just this dichotomy.

I think this is really a good way of separating knowledge from ability to be honest.

To me it is 100% knowledge where I could illegally buy an automatic weapon in my town, right down to the address and seller, I however would never be able to show up there and get it from him. Impossible. My brother in law however would have no knowledge of where he would be able to find a counterfeit parking license but if anyone would need one he’d be the one you’d send to get it.

Of course the rigger knows where to get the stuff and he will ask his squad made with the big face tattoo and the death sentence in four systems to obtain it for him.

The earlier episodes of Breaking Bad have some great scenes illustrating just this dichotomy.

Great example!!!

I really like the idea of sensors and/or comm talents for Commodore. Hmm, I will tinker with a new tree build later this week when I have time.

I came up with this idea if the Commodore tree ever gets reworked. I wanted to avoid a massive rework of the tree and treat it as more an errata update.

1) For the bottom left 25-pt box, change it from "Solids Repairs" to "Intense Focus".

2) For the bottom right 25-pt box, change it from "Galaxy Mapper" to "Careful Planning".

3) For the left-most 10-pt box, change it from "Familiar Suns" to "Experienced Eye". This new talent increases the passive range of sensors by one range band.

Those are the three that I really think ought to be fixed and seem inline with the splat. I'd love to hear what folks think, or what they would do differently.

EDIT: 3 Feb, added "Experienced Eye"

I made an edit to the proposal above, adding #3 as a new talent.

Re: the rigger: streetwise vs knowledge underworld argument, I normally extrapolate the comment about subbing negotiation with relevant knowledge skills to apply to black market transactions as well. So yes, you could use Knowledge: Underworld to try and locate reloads for your proton launcher, but you may have a black dice because this system that you are in is a minor backwater world as far as criminal activity is concerned, so you are unlikely to have learned too much about this place.

"Yes, and..." not "No."

Re: the rigger: streetwise vs knowledge underworld argument, I normally extrapolate the comment about subbing negotiation with relevant knowledge skills to apply to black market transactions as well. So yes, you could use Knowledge: Underworld to try and locate reloads for your proton launcher, but you may have a black dice because this system that you are in is a minor backwater world as far as criminal activity is concerned, so you are unlikely to have learned too much about this place.

"Yes, and..." not "No."

Maybe Gunslinger might push it in that direction. Not a lot of offence in Thief or Scoundrel really, they are more focused on avoiding harm. And Pilot relies on having a lot of starship battles rather than ground ones.

Well, the Marshal in Far Horizons didn't really push the Colonist too far into a combat direction, nor did Big Game Hunter in Enter the Unknown.

Commander is kind of a combat spec already, with the three arenas thus far being "big" ships (Commodore), snub fighters (Squadron Leader), and ground (Tactician).

I could see a spec that's more about "hearts and minds" and being that "charismatic face of the resistance" type who mixes social skills with combat savvy, and probably has at least the basic Inspiring Rhetoric or something of a similar nature to inspire/motivate the troops under their command.

I was thinking something like this. Think of all the great quotes from movies that leaders give before battle. Maybe a combat oriented Agitator.

Maybe we'll see a couple of Rarity 4 cruisers in the eventual Commander sourcebook so that a group with a Commodore doesn't have to wait two full Contribution Rank increases in order to get command of something other than a Lambda shuttle or light transport.

I just wish Commander would've been the next book. lol

Yeah Commander and Engineer are the two I want the most right now. Still maybe diplomat will have some rarity four sil 5 or sil 6 ships. I doubt there are going to be many, if any, fighters in it so most of the ships in it will probably be sil 4 and up. Hopefully lots of new ships to since the ship classes I remember being most well known as diplomatic craft are in the Core book.

I could see a spec that's more about "hearts and minds" and being that "charismatic face of the resistance" type who mixes social skills with combat savvy, and probably has at least the basic Inspiring Rhetoric or something of a similar nature to inspire/motivate the troops under their command.

I was thinking something like this. Think of all the great quotes from movies that leaders give before battle. Maybe a combat oriented Agitator.

What about something like a Drill Sergeant specialization for the Commander that could give other characters boosts like Inspiring Rhetoric, but also boost their combat abilities the way the Recruit universal spec would, except on a much smaller scale?