Since they do more or less the same thing - at least according to everything I've read - do you guys think Beskar should be just reskinned Cortosis? Armor immune to pierce and breach, weapons immune to sunder?
I ask because I have a player - who to be fair, looks to be going up against a BUNCH of lightsaber wielders here soon - who wants it bad. And Mando Iron might be easier to find, thanks to the way the game seems to be playing out here in the next few sessions.
Beskar, cotosis, phrik, essentially all the same thing, at least as far as armor is concerned. It seems only "refined" cortosis that makes a difference.
Oh Unobtainium . Yeah, I agree that they appear to function almost identically - it seems perfectly reasonable to me to call the the same thing. Keep in mind the Empire is strip-mining the stuff off mandalore right now for their own uses .
Edit: I thought it was unrefiend cortosis; the brittle stuff that's almost useless for armor or weapons, but caused feedback loops that shut down lightsabers.
Edited by QuicksilverKeep in mind the Empire is strip-mining the stuff off mandalore right now for their own uses .
The upside is that in my game, the Empire is about 4,000 years off. Hence the need for lightsaber repelling metal - Jedi and Sith are on just about every street corner in my game!
Edit: I thought it was unrefiend cortosis; the brittle stuff that's almost useless for armor or weapons, but caused feedback loops that shut down lightsabers.
In FaD its the refined stuff that does. Personally, I don't care as long as the mechanics do what I expect.
Same name for different things. Just white-out the Cortosis part and call it Mando Iron.
Edited by kaosoe"Cortosis Weave" was the one thing wrong with KotOR, in my opinion. It just confused things so much.
Cortosis and Mandalorian Iron are supposed to be completely different. Mandalorian Iron was an incredibly hard metal with energy resistant property so strong it could even absorb glancing blows of a lightsaber. Cortosis is SUPPOSED to be a brittle metal that's natural magnetic frequency actually disrupts and shuts off a lightsaber. They do completely different things.
The problem is that a bunch of bad writers have misused cortosis as a way to give a reason why videogame characters can take multiple hits from a lightsaber.
Cortosis and Mandalorian Iron are supposed to be completely different. Mandalorian Iron was an incredibly hard metal with energy resistant property so strong it could even absorb glancing blows of a lightsaber. Cortosis is SUPPOSED to be a brittle metal that's natural magnetic frequency actually disrupts and shuts off a lightsaber. They do completely different things.
The problem is that a bunch of bad writers have misused cortosis as a way to give a reason why videogame characters can take multiple hits from a lightsaber.
....ok, so how would that effect the game mechanics in a way that's better then what exists without adding a more complicated mechanic?
If anything, while the exact words might not be correct, the mechanics already are. The Cortosis Quality allows armor to withstand a hit from a saber (with no assurance it'll stop ALL damage) to cover your mandalorian armor and relatives, and the "Spend XXX or O to short out a saber" is your "cortosis."
Protip: Don't lash yourself to the lore. It's temping because the setting is so detailed and covered, but if the game is going to remain playable then you'll have to allow for some acceptable losses in the fluff.
They do completely different things.
From a narrative standpoint, you would be correct. From a mechanics standpoint however, shutting off versus deflecting the blow is more or less the same thing. The bulk of a lightsaber's damage - the breach and the soak bypass - has been dealt with. It's up to the GM to say "You strike his torso and your lightsaber sputters out" versus "your saber glances off his arm with no damage. And boy does he look pissed!"
They do completely different things.
From a narrative standpoint, you would be correct. From a mechanics standpoint however, shutting off versus deflecting the blow is more or less the same thing. The bulk of a lightsaber's damage - the breach and the soak bypass - has been dealt with. It's up to the GM to say "You strike his torso and your lightsaber sputters out" versus "your saber glances off his arm with no damage. And boy does he look pissed!"
Cortosis can give you more opportunity to use threat or despair in interesting ways that directly reflect the properties of cortosis. A regular blow may just dissipate some of the energy and act like mandalorian iron, but add a despair or a bunch of threat and the Cortosis could dissipate the lightsaber and short out the capacitor. Now you are in a fight and struggling to re-activate your saber, forcing you to use new tactics and weapons.
Cortosis can give you more opportunity to use threat or despair in interesting ways that directly reflect the properties of cortosis. A regular blow may just dissipate some of the energy and act like mandalorian iron, but add a despair or a bunch of threat and the Cortosis could dissipate the lightsaber and short out the capacitor. Now you are in a fight and struggling to re-activate your saber, forcing you to use new tactics and weapons.They do completely different things.
From a narrative standpoint, you would be correct. From a mechanics standpoint however, shutting off versus deflecting the blow is more or less the same thing. The bulk of a lightsaber's damage - the breach and the soak bypass - has been dealt with. It's up to the GM to say "You strike his torso and your lightsaber sputters out" versus "your saber glances off his arm with no damage. And boy does he look pissed!"
... So exactly what the game already does.
Cortosis can give you more opportunity to use threat or despair in interesting ways that directly reflect the properties of cortosis. A regular blow may just dissipate some of the energy and act like mandalorian iron, but add a despair or a bunch of threat and the Cortosis could dissipate the lightsaber and short out the capacitor. Now you are in a fight and struggling to re-activate your saber, forcing you to use new tactics and weapons.
They do completely different things.
From a narrative standpoint, you would be correct. From a mechanics standpoint however, shutting off versus deflecting the blow is more or less the same thing. The bulk of a lightsaber's damage - the breach and the soak bypass - has been dealt with. It's up to the GM to say "You strike his torso and your lightsaber sputters out" versus "your saber glances off his arm with no damage. And boy does he look pissed!"
Yup, but Mandalorian Iron shouldn't do that as well. The point, unless I'm missing it, was whether Beskar should just be re-skinned cortosis. The answer is no, they do similar but different things, and should reflect it in the rules.
Eh, since mechanically all Cortosis does is prevent breech and pierce - leaving the narrative effects up to the GM - I think I'm okay with Mano Iron stopping breech and pierce too. It just doesn't get the sputter out saber effect.
Edited by Desslok... So exactly what the game already does.Cortosis can give you more opportunity to use threat or despair in interesting ways that directly reflect the properties of cortosis. A regular blow may just dissipate some of the energy and act like mandalorian iron, but add a despair or a bunch of threat and the Cortosis could dissipate the lightsaber and short out the capacitor. Now you are in a fight and struggling to re-activate your saber, forcing you to use new tactics and weapons.They do completely different things.
From a narrative standpoint, you would be correct. From a mechanics standpoint however, shutting off versus deflecting the blow is more or less the same thing. The bulk of a lightsaber's damage - the breach and the soak bypass - has been dealt with. It's up to the GM to say "You strike his torso and your lightsaber sputters out" versus "your saber glances off his arm with no damage. And boy does he look pissed!"
Yup, but Mandalorian Iron shouldn't do that as well. The point, unless I'm missing it, was whether Beskar should just be re-skinned cortosis. The answer is no, they do similar but different things, and should reflect it in the rules.
As is we've got 2 rules. One that makes things tougher, and a second that makes it short out a saber.
Between the two it seems to cover things. Is beskar actually different enough to warrant something new, or is it just the name of the rule that you're getting hung up on?
Edited by Ghostofman
And that's what I'm asking. Why is the current rule set not right and how can it be changed or added to (without making more complicated) to correct it?
... So exactly what the game already does.
Cortosis can give you more opportunity to use threat or despair in interesting ways that directly reflect the properties of cortosis. A regular blow may just dissipate some of the energy and act like mandalorian iron, but add a despair or a bunch of threat and the Cortosis could dissipate the lightsaber and short out the capacitor. Now you are in a fight and struggling to re-activate your saber, forcing you to use new tactics and weapons.
They do completely different things.
From a narrative standpoint, you would be correct. From a mechanics standpoint however, shutting off versus deflecting the blow is more or less the same thing. The bulk of a lightsaber's damage - the breach and the soak bypass - has been dealt with. It's up to the GM to say "You strike his torso and your lightsaber sputters out" versus "your saber glances off his arm with no damage. And boy does he look pissed!"
Yup, but Mandalorian Iron shouldn't do that as well. The point, unless I'm missing it, was whether Beskar should just be re-skinned cortosis. The answer is no, they do similar but different things, and should reflect it in the rules.
As is we've got 2 rules. One that makes things tougher, and a second that makes it short out a saber.
Between the two it seems to cover things. Is beskar actually different enough to warrant something new, or is it just the name of the rule that you're getting hung up on?
Not a big distinction, just the removal of shorting out a blade and maybe adding a double threat activation where the energy absorption fails and negates the sunder ability. It's a simple fix to reflect the differences between the two materials.
By the way, Cortosis is now Canon according to the novel
A New Dawn
(it is the first occurrence says Wookieepedia). The novel doesn't go on and on about it's function(s), but briefly describes its plasma diffusing effects on blasters. I'm so happy!
(The later contains mild spoilers for the A New Dawn novel.)
In A New Dawn , a novel that is part of the "New Canon" as redefined by Disney and the LucasArt story group, a cyborg character named Vidian has a " cortosis mesh " armor that is depicted as a "silver sheen" very good at diffusing the energy of blaster shots (plasma-based weaponry in general, I'd venture to say, given the novel). Kanan was being held by Vidian and when Hera shot him Kanan got electrocuted/hurt by the cortosis mesh's conductivity.
It's all academic since the Maurder got her hands on Mado Iron and not the cortosis. And since we've establish that - at least according to the lore - Mando Iron doesn't cause the Saber Sputter, it's all good.
Now I have to come up with stats for the fool armor . . . and the Basilisk War Droid they stole, too.
The only thing in the game so far that causes the saber to short out are the refined cortosis gauntlets in F&D. The Cortosis quality only gives the resistance to Pierce and Breach effects. The quality can be used for cortosis, Mandiron, and phrik interchangably. If you want something made from cortosis to have the saber short ability I suggest you give it the same ability as the above mentioned refined cortosis gauntlets.
The only thing in the game so far that causes the saber to short out are the refined cortosis gauntlets in F&D. The Cortosis quality only gives the resistance to Pierce and Breach effects. The quality can be used for cortosis, Mandiron, and phrik interchangably. If you want something made from cortosis to have the saber short ability I suggest you give it the same ability as the above mentioned refined cortosis gauntlets.
That's what I think the issue is boiling down to.
Disabling Sabers is a seperate rule, not directly attached to the Cortosis quality.
As the "Cortosis" Quality some people think that it should only apply to actual Cortosis. Were it named "Super lightsaber resistant awesome material" quality then there'd be less discussion.
Do people only use Cortosis Quality against blasters? In other words, might a superior slugthrower work better against a curtosis quality defense than a blaster? (I'm considering building a special gun for a hunt vs a very rich and very annoying nemesis... )
The information on the Cortosis quality states that it is resistant to energy weapons. I would allow slugthrowers to retain their pierce ability myself. Enter the Unknown has two such weapons for hunting.
Per RAW it works on everything. But that's what I was saying earlier:
Do you take the "Cortosis" part literally or not?
I don't, to me it's just the name they gave the rule, but it can apply to any appropriate material beyond actual cortosis. Cortosis was just to most well known material.
Do people only use Cortosis Quality against blasters? In other words, might a superior slugthrower work better against a curtosis quality defense than a blaster? (I'm considering building a special gun for a hunt vs a very rich and very annoying nemesis... )
I would consider this on the same level as the idea that Toydarians are resistant to influence via the Force.
It's mentioned in the rules, but for simplicity's sake, they don't give us a hard and fast mechanic for it, because a hard and fast mechanic isn't needed. If, for your game, you want a level of granularity that differentiates between Cortosis and Mandalorian Iron, then you can have it by making it so that Cortosis Weave only protects against energy weapons, and cloning/re-skinning the Cortosis quality to make the Beskar quality. Or the Phrik quality.
This post has been dead for a while, but there are a couple things to consider. First, Beskar is only available to Mandalorians or someone who can force them to give some away. Second, Beskar shouldn't function as a weave that can be removed and such, but instead be an innate quality of the armor, and as such it could be argued that a point (maybe two) of soak could be added. Lastly, back in the olden days, Beskar was not just used on Weapons and Armor, but for various other things, perhaps the most relevant being Starship hulls, which no other similar material was.