This is a list I am working on in response to Vader's Fist. The theme focuses on taking two walkers and 2-3 officers and a boat load of speed boosting cards.

List

AT ST 14

Weiss 16

Elite Officer 5

Elite Officer 5

Alternatively you can drop one elite officer for two greys, giving you more ATST pushes and a better shot at taking initiative. You can also swap out Wiess for an AT ST and a third grey officer.

The command cards are pretty straight forward. Keep things fast and unstunned. A little damage is fine but your focus is on keeping the ATSTs flying around the map.

Most objective games do not offer enough VPs to win without scoring a kill. However, you can't shoot your way out of every encounter. This list is dedicated to securing and threatening objectives and getting enough kills on top to push it over 40 vp.

Depending on the situation, you'll have to make a choice between activating the officers or ATSTs first. It depends on the likelyhood of first round shooting and the need to claim objectives. ATSTs are your work horse and getting them on objectives or into key areas is key, but so is maintaining distance from the threats. All the Jedi and wookie characters are bad news and aside from Chewbacca, the best defense is staying 5+ away. Wiess had +2 acc and the ATSTs have +3. The trade off here is that Wiess does not have Awkward. This means with the atst we are safely shooting at 5-7 range without much fear. Weiss can do even better by taking two blue die.

The current instinct is to ignore ATSTs, and since the officers are small fish, many players will go after the objectives quickly. You like that with this list. You want to position yourself to threaten and

Punish objective taking, but don't forget ATSTs can take objectives too. The holocron yavin mission is probably the hardest to score objectives on but also the easiest to punish the other guys for. The other yavin mission allows you to take two and threaten two more objectives in the first round with the atst due to its size extending so much control.

Losing an ATST is not always a death sentence. Losing one is pretty typical, so plan ahead in scoring those VPs back.

When confronting vader's fist, the general idea is to send Wiess to double surge Blast 3 against the Royal Guard, as they will typically have three storm troopers and maybe an officer or vader next to them. Blast 3 wipes out all the stormtroopers in one shot and breaks through vader's armor and ignores Protector. Then threaten objectives. With Wiess, the best combination of dice for this is Yellow Yellow Green, or blue if your taking a shot a distance away.

There is no avoiding combat with vader. With their own officer and Pummel, he can keep up. Instead, set it up so he has to take shots from both ATSTs. Avoid letting one take all the damage.

Updates incoming

I can see the thought process, but I do not see how this beats Vader. Vader can kill either AT-ST pretty easily and the officers (obviously), especially when he has some Royal Guard backups. I expect Vader will just walk up, kill a Walker and complete the mission. The other Stormies/etc he brings will focus on the mission and killing your officers, which should be pretty easy. Also, Command card/ count will hurt you, since he most opponents will avoid some potential damage by making you activate your big guys first.

Again I see the idea, but I am skeptical 2xAT-ST is really viable. Maybe I'm wrong, couldn't hurt to give it a shot.

I will definitely give this a shot. It's outside the box thinking, and for that reason it just may work.

I will definitely give this a shot. It's outside the box thinking, and for that reason it just may work.

I just LOOOOOVE the outside of the box. So much space and nice quirky people to hang out with. Cold beers anyone?

Yeah I dont think the AT-ST is the right move but think Weiss.

Here is the Weiss build I thought of.

Weiss,Elite Probe Droidsx2,Officerx2 Elite Officersx2

I get the point of wanting a second beat and eatting up space but not sure the AT-ST is the right one. I also dont think my build works eiither just think having a lot of acts vs vader is better than two big beats if your going to try and counter. I also think maybe just having a reg probe to try and counter swarms could work vs trooper builds.Your very limited on people that can get missions. Only having four guys will hurt vs the rebels. Also the rebels have a lot of evade. What do you do vs a han/Chewie build or a RGC with Elite Royal Guards, What about vs a Rebel Trooper build that will just eat through your armor.

I do think a weiss canon can beat vader but I am not sure this is the right build since its not very good vs missions(mainly because of the lack of acts) and if you go up against evade your blast is kind of useless.

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Again I see the idea, but I am skeptical 2xAT-ST is really viable. Maybe I'm wrong, couldn't hurt to give it a shot.

Thanks for the responses! There are a few factors.

I felt the same way about viability before I made myself put it into play. I was nervous about it, but a few factors became clear. An ATST or Wiess going head to head with Vader one on one is going to wind up dead. The averages work out in favor of Vader when you don't have pierce, but it's a fairly close fight and Vader won't be around much longer once the dust settles. In that way, the enemy is getting a bit of the shaft in VP value. The key here is to spread out the damage against vader from different sources. Notably both ATST's. The elite officers are there to ensure that each ATST is attacking at least twice each turn, or getting into a better position/objectives etc.

Against Vader's Fist, the storm troopers pea-shooters have a really hard time cracking the ATST/Weiss's average 4 blocks. They cap out their damage at 4 hits each, 5 with surge and at best a pierce 1. They'll get a bit of damage in but it will barely add up. Getting stunned is a much bigger deal. That's where the officers and command cards come in, again.

Protecting your offices is much easier than it seems, since they are following around massive figures . With an ATST in front of them, they are well protected. The officers are not taking objectives or anything else, they are there to stay alive and make the ATSTs better. Keeping them alive is paramount, but thankfully this is pretty easy to do. When I've lost with this list, the officers are typically still standing.

This is primarily because a majority of the skirmish maps focus on two routes to the objectives/conflict. These routes invariably include 2-wide choke points or narrow walkways. While the ATST's push down these paths to victory, the officers stay safely behind them, well out of harms way and very challenging to flank. However, this leads to a moment of weakness.

There is a time in the tempo of the match where the ATST's must turn to engage their decided target. Because the skirmish maps are built with the same path system in mind (at least right now), the moment the ATST's turn for the objective, the officer is exposed. Typically, when this happens, it's also too dangerous for the officer to continue following as it leaves open a new flanking route... the direction where the ATST had been heading is now open, and any enemies there now have their choice of targets. Handing this moment of weakness is important, but it's usually safest to back up and wait for Wiess to activate, then fire with Weiss and use Generals orders to get the officer back into position before the Officers activation.

Keeping in mind that the most important victory condition is victory points, let's break down each part of Vader's Fist that needs to be taken down:

Darth Vader : You can stand up against him for about 5 strikes total before dropping with either ATST. This makes Pummel extremely dangerous, so keeping him at a small distance is key. The idea is to kite him to spread out those strikes as much as possible, while still heading towards and threatening objectives. Ultimately, you want to get him into position to smash him with both ATST's at once, with officers netting them two attacks each over the course of the round. You aren't playing keep-away, but you are trying to advance in such away that denies Vader the chance to start his activation next to you. Blast damage also goes a long way in bypassing Vaders armor. Vader and ATST's are pretty evenly matched, but Vader does have the advantage once he is in melee range. Having the Pierce 3 or +4 dmg Command cards ready can make all the difference.

Stormtroopers : They are rushing objectives, but so are you. Your Officer/Wiess charged ATST's move faster than stormtroopers do. They are covering 8 squares each activation and you are covering 12 or more. Many objectives require full player control and a fast moving ATST can deny that in a hurry, and even claim control itself easily. Use Wiess if you can to target the RG running defense for the stormtroopers and go for broke on getting surge. You need 3 surge to be safe, so two yellows and a green is ideal. The Blast 3 will take care of all of the storm troopers in a single activation, netting you six more points.

Royal Guard : These guys are a bit trickier. They do tend to hover behind the stormtroopers but they can take a ton of damage as a side-product of the attack against the storm troopers. The good news to this is that the RG is not in the position it wants to be to attack. It's in a defensive position and likely with 5 to 3 health remaining. Their Yellow Red attack alone is dealing 4-5 damage at max, 4 max with a surge or two. The stun is far more dangerous, but dealing 4 damage (3 red, 1 yellow with stun 1 or 2) is not breaking your average 4 blocks. With the +2 AND stun they can do it, but with just one surge, they can't trigger stun. In general, ATST's are only passingly nervous about these guys. Be mindful of the green focus, however. That can generate much better results and improve chances for a stun. After wiping out the troopers, the RG will generally be focused. The RG also have the disadvantage of being 1 group split over two teams of units, so both RG have to move at the same time. Depending on the order of the activations, it's something that can be taken advantage of.

The Officer : In a Vader's Fist list, the officer is only there for Vader. As a grey officer, he offers the move bonus only, but on Vader, that's often all Vader needs. If the officer is hanging around the RG for protection, then a simple blast from Wiess or two blasts from an ATST is the best way to go. Otherwise, the officer is either hanging back looking for something to do or bum-rushing Vader, which puts the officer into harm's way.

Putting it all together, Vader is the only unit in Vader's Fist that poses a significant threat, and in many games you can get away with trading with vader and still having an ATST standing. Remember that Wiess has General's Orders as well, which can further speed up the other ATST and get an officer into a better position. This can make a huge difference as well. Taking objectives with ATST's is much easier than it seems at a glance and I've found myself in several matches taking all or most of the objectives with the ATST's and killing a 2 point officer with Celebration for the victory.

This list plays similarly against other lists , including merc and rebel lists, but it has to take care against Luke Skywalker and any unit that has easy access to Peirce.

It's worth experimenting with the variants open in this list, such as taking 2 ATST's for 28 pts and taking 4 greys officers with 4 pts left over, or any combination. More grey officers, more movement, more red officers, more damage. Weiss and the second ATST are interchangeable for the cost of 1 grey officer, which leaves a lot of option open. I prefer taking Wiess for Blast 3 and being able to shoot at his feet, but there's still lots of flex room.

Keep in mind that you can move a single ATST up 16-20 spaces in a single round depending on your load out. Using wises to move the ATST after all the officers will extend the range of movement, as the officers otherwise wouldn't be able to keep up for a potential third push. Then activate the ATST last, which will always be where the enemy didn't want it to be.

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That doesn't even begin to address rebel Luke and Chewie builds. Luke and Daila handle much the same way as Vader from the viewports of an ATST. The same strategies apply but with a wider range of factors to be aware of.

The biggest assumption people make about the double ATST build is that it's not good at seizing objectives, which is simply not true. They are not AS good at taking objectives as other builds simply due to the numbers game, but they approach it differently. They can get there faster and hold objectives better. They do just fine with the objectives in both Moisture Farm variants and excel with Destroy the Evidence on Yavin. The Holocron mission is a bit trickier as discarding the mission token does not seem to take an activation, but if they rush it, you can suppress them pretty easily and out-kill their VP's as the ATST's can get to the command point on turn 1.

The only mission I haven't tried with this build is Get to the Ship, and I have some doubts about that one, except that the ATST's can stand on the objective points directly. But that puts them in harms way in a hurry.

Understanding the game, particularly averages and how the different dice interact together, is key to playing this list well. It's all about picking your targets as you go to maximize your VP and minimize theirs. They can get 39 VPs and lose. Only the 40th VP ever matters, and this list exploits that 40th VP as hard as it can.

The problem I have with the build is that you will be down on acts and taking a lot of damage. I get it plays like a tank squad and eats up space. It can counter swarms. I just think a squad needs to be balanced on both sides. Maybe I am wrong since you can see anyone and eat up so much space.

The problem I have with the build is that you will be down on acts and taking a lot of damage. I get it plays like a tank squad and eats up space. It can counter swarms. I just think a squad needs to be balanced on both sides. Maybe I am wrong since you can see anyone and eat up so much space.

I totally get that. It does seem to do well enough against swarms, but with the activations...

I think that the biggest issue is that the importance of quantity of activations is hard to really pin down right now. I am of the philosophy that I want the enemy to react to me, rather than the other way around. Going first is way more important, to me, than going last. At least with this build, where you have to define your own goals to victory.

Taking objectives with ATST's is much easier than it seems at a glance and I've found myself in several matches taking all or most of the objectives with the ATST's and killing a 2 point officer with Celebration for the victory.

Just a quick note, Celebration only works on unique figures destroyed.

I've experimented with this build a little bit and I don't like it. I think maybe when we get a look at some of the other command cards, it might shore up the weaknesses. Even then, I still can't commit to a 4 activation list where 2 of the 4 are squishy officers. I wonder about going with 2 AT-STs, 2 Elite Officers, and 1 Reg Officer. Without some interesting Weiss card to abuse, I'm not sure he's worth the extra 2 points in this list. Weiss alone, where I have more points to use, I'd consider him.