thecorinthian said:

Yog-Sothoth taught me how to die with dignity. 3 times in one game and I've probably only been devoured 10 times in over 250 games. Perhaps there ought to be a solo player's rule for (too) willingly sacrificing their soulless minions. Even being wounded or going insane for casual players is traumatic. "I'm dead!" is the phrase I hear when the calculations indicate thye can't win the monster combat or the flame thrower misfires. They're not dead of course, merely sleeping for a turn. For the first time yesterday an investigator pulled a double injury card and was devoured . It was one of my favorite investigators, Roland, played by my son, just two player turns before the final gate was sealed. A needless and horrible death--The game was virtually won.

Renderfalls said:

Ok good point. Although tbh, I am still not that scared of the Terror level even if it gets quite high. And even against Glaaki, the terror level doesn't do much during the main game; all it really does is force you to go for a sealing victory because the final battle would be over too fast. Admittedly that is an annoyance because Glaaki is otherwise one of the easier final battles, but if you were trying to seal anyway, you haven't really lost much.

thecorinthian said:

Are you kidding us or what? The Terror Level rising during the main game returns an ally to the box each time, which brings out a Servant of Glaaki, each of which immediately strips away things important to you! That's "not much"???

As for being Devoured having little cost or being an advantage, it depends on who you draw as a replacement. This game I had Silas Devour himself to complete his Personal Story and his replacement was . . . Sister Mary.

Is it possible to rank just the 8 base ancient ones? I want to see, since I only have the base. I just want names and rank, no need for 'why'

If you rank all 24 AOs, you can pull out the 8 base ones in their order.

The best "tried" representation of the AO ranking is from the stats site. But we'll see how that evolves over time, as players get adjusted to Innsmouth.

mageith said:

Am I reading that wrong or were you guys passing the First Player token without QU devouring anybody (card from the 3rd Dust Deck)? Getting devoured is the only way to pass the First Player token against QU. Just sounds like you were paying 2 Clues to not draw a Dust card and passed the FP token.

Dam said:

... that's how it works.

If you pay the 2 clues, you pass the First Player token, because there's nothing to say that you don't. The Dust cards are the only things that stop you passing the First Player token.

@Solan: Ok yes, I'll admit that Glaaki is a pain if you get devoured. It's been a while since I'd played against it and I was forgetting how nasty the Glaaki spawn monsters are.

mageith said:

Dam said:

Also, your group is a bunch of pansies ! Folding under peer-pressure .

Au contrair, mon ami. It your one mind for the entire group that decides to risk almost always devourment who decides under peer-pressure (peer pressure of one). Group mind is doing Group think.

For us it is not peer pressure, but the realization that discretion might be the better part of valor. As you well know, there is no real cost in the game sense to be devoured. My point is that as individual players, they identify with their characters more and are less likely to take the more efficient but riskier choice of drawing big G's gaze.

On a realted point, this is why I have found QU slightly disappointing in play. In a multi-invetsigator solo I tend to think ok player 1 is now expendible, whereas i normally try to avoid devourings and until IH would never take a replacement (I still don't if QU gets them, but sometimes do for Ghat and the Deep Ones). Don't get me wrong I think QU is very well done, it just doesn't work very well solitaire.

Ghat does work for me in the same set up though, I still get the tension when drawing a visage token. I didn't know until the last discussion of this that it was possible to only pick up some of the clues from a location, but I'd still not do this. I like the sense of danger.

- Mariana the ex-nun cultist

edit: oops, sorry, didn't read as far as Dam's QU post.

Also thecorinthian: I nevre allow trophies to be inherited, it is just stupid. (IMHO)

Solan said:

"Silas returns after a stay in the hospital. He is hooded but appears somehow different, his voice is much lighter, and...is that perfume?. Silas begins to speak, his voice is softer than before, can that really be the effect of a couple of weeks off the rum? 'guys..., I've had an operation...'"

- Mariana the ex-nun cultist

thecorinthian said:

You're sure about this? This isn't how I understood it. I thought this was answered and the 1st player token didn't get passed. Maybe I'm misremembering though.

- Mariana the ex-nun cultist

Mariana the Ex-Nun Cultist said:

Hmmm. I know that AH cards can be "clarified" in such a way that they do something completely different to what's written. But if this works the way you seem to be implying, it would be seriously at odds with the text of QU. The ability is this:

" Footprints in the Dust - While Quachil Uttaus stirs in his slumber, shuffle the three dust decks at the start of the game and place them facedown on this sheet. At the start of each turn, the first player must either spend 2 clue tokens or draw a card from the lowest-numbered dust deck that still has undrawn cards in it."

Drawing a Dust card can result in the instruction "do not pass the First Player token this turn", but drawing such a card is the only way in which QU interferences with the passing of the token. If you don't draw a card like that, you pass the token as normal.

Seriously, has everyone else been playing it so that the token never passes without a devouring? The QU ability just doesn't say that. Where did this idea come from?

thecorinthian said:

maybe from IH manual ?

"During the game, the first player marker is never passed QU finally tracks down the first player and devours him. Until then, the doom hangs over the investigator's had" - page 9 "New ancient ones"

Hi Corinthian,

From BGG, Kevin wrote:

"When Quachil Uttaus is the Ancient One, do not pass the first player marker except when the first player is devoured. "

Here is the link to the thread (quite brief)

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/411268

Whilst it might be fun to play the other way, like a kind of pass the parcel/bomb. I think the intentiion is to make QU an unrelenting hunter of its targetted victim, which feels more sinister.

- Mariana the ex-nun cultist

Edit: Anvilek beat me to it, but I'll leave the quopte from Kevin in as confirmation.

Sorry, there should have been: ""During the game, the first player marker is never passed until QU finally tracks down the first player and devours him. Until then, the doom hangs over the investigator's had" - page 9 "New ancient ones"

I really miss "edit" button on this forum.

Anvilek said:

Hi Anvilek,

you can edit if you are fast enough (you probably still have time as we are cross-posting). But the window of opportunity is quite narrow.

- Mariana the ex-nun cultist

Anvilek said:

In the words of CJ Cregg: "Seriously? I quit."

Actually, I think I may finally throw in the towel and go mad. Beeble beeble beeble schmorp schmorp frrr'tang. I have read the Innsmouth rulebook book of course, I'd just forgotten about that bit, or maybe I didn't realize the implication at the time. Why in the name of all that's holy do the rulebook 'notes' overrule an AO's printed ability? Either the rulebook is wrong, or the text on most of the Dust cards is totally redundant.

I realize that the clarification on BGG comes from Kevin Wilson Himself, but his clarification is totally ga-ga. I agree with the OP on the BGG thread: the way that QU's ability works based on what the card itself says is much more interesting and elegant than the clarified version. If you go with the clarified version, all it's really doing is clumsily turning the First Player marker as an indicator of QU's persecution, and almost completely removing the rotating-first-player element of the game for no particular reason. After all, I don't see why QU can't have had a Dust marker of his own or something.

Granted, it would be a bit unfair if one player could draw most of the way through the Dust decks and then pass the marker on to the next chump, thus giving that chump no chance of survival - but I don't have a problem with that! I think that's a great idea! I LIKE things that are a bit unfair! If QU doesn't do that, I'm **** well gonna make an custom AO which does.

Thanks for the links anyway guys. That'll teach me to read the cards and think I understand what they do.

I think it is written to reflect the Clark Ashton Smith story "the Treader of the Dust", which deals with QU.

In the story QU is a relentless pursuer of whomever draws his attention.

Whilst the way you (Corinthian) suggest might be fun in a pass the hot potato manner, I think the official version is neat and makes QU quite unique in persecuting a single target at a time.

But if you have more fun your way, then keep playing that way.

- Mariana the ex-nun cultist

Exactly. Not passing the FP token means you can generally kiss the first investigator a guaranteed good-bye, second one is probably on the limit, depending on whether the game stretches. Additionally, I seem to have trouble getting around the fixed turn order in QU games, I'm always thinking ahead about moves on the following turn as if the marker passes and turn order changes.

Dam said:

Sorry, Dam, but do you mean you think it works better in the official way, or in the way that I've been doing it (which is apparently wrong)?

@Mariana: I agree that it's good that QU persecutes one person at a time, but the source story is very short and the way the ability works is only one of a few ways in which the deadly effect might be represented. I'm not complaining about the idea that QU kills one player then moves on; it just seems like a shame that this is tied in to the First Player marker, instead of being linked to some other marker or effect which is passed independently.

(My main reason for this is that the movement of first-player status is an interesting part of the game. For example, in my regular group, we quite often end up in situations where a weaker investigator needs rescuing from monsters, and if the players act in the same order every turn, there's no variation in whether the most skilled monster-fighter in the group will be able to get to the monsters first. If this aspect of the turn sequence is going to be almost completely removed, it'd **** well better be for a good reason - which in the case of the correct way of doing QU's ability, it isn't. I think you lose more fun than you gain.)

If you do it my way and pass the First Player marker fairly regularly (by paying 2 clues), a player who has no clue tokens has a good chance of inheriting a severely depleted set of Dust decks, so it's quite possible to get devoured because of the negligence of the other players. I don't think this is a bad thing at all - in fact I think it's extremely entertaining. Even if you play it my way and everyone pays up every turn, QU's ability has basically become a sort of rotating 'tax' on clue tokens, which is not a totally unreasonable ability for an AO to have anyway.

Anyway, I will use the proper QU rules from now on. But I do think that if the note in the rulebook reflects an errata which was made after the card was designed, it was the wrong call. Shame really.

thecorinthian said:

I wasn't really referring to either way, though I've played QU with the official. I was merely saying that in QU games, I seem to have trouble adjusting my game to the fixed turn order, especially since QU is the only one who keeps a set order until the FP is devoured. With all other GOOs, I always plan ahead, looking okay, so next turn X is FP and can clear a path there for Y. With QU, for some reason I can't plan ahead as well with the fixed turn order of X, Y, Z. Too used to the rotating FP token.

thecorinthian said:

This was kind of my point.

Dam said:

I know, I was just being verbose by explaining my reasons for agreeing...

thecorinthian said:

You could always try passing the first player marker as normal, but NOT the dust decks. Could even use the Zhar token as a QU token that doesn't get passed on. That would keep the focused targeting of victim, but not disrupt the normal flow of player turns.

- Mariana the ex-nun cultist

If you're someone who gets attached to your char(s), getting your favourite + being FP + QU as GOO definately sucks. Of course, getting San 3 guy doesn't make you happy either (as I had Mark in my first QU game). If you are like me, who sees chars as expendable commodities , it's no biggie. Getting devoured has definately lost some of its impact with IH, since devourings are now much more commonplace. Was I happy that I drew QU as the GOO when Trish was the first investigator? Hell no!!! Was I happy she was then replaced by Dexter Drake? GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH ! But you work with what you got.

EDIT: Looks like it wasn't Dexter who replaced Trish, but Amanda. Same deal though. Dexter replaced Minh in a Ghatanothoa game.

thecorinthian said:

If you do it your way, the following types of player are essentially certain to inherit a depleted set of Dust decks:

• A player who has a crappy character that you want to replace.
• A player who has a couple of injuries/madnesses.
• A player who has used up all his resources (e.g. Wendy without Elder Sign).
• A player who can be devoured to pass his PS.
• A player who has passed all his goods and money onto another Investigator, so you can get a free reload.

There are so many ways to cheese QU if you use any means of passing the First Player marker.

Jedit said:

I agree with the sentiment, but you're talking as if QU is the only card which allows this sort of tactic. The problem (such as it is) already existed. Investigators have always had plenty of ways of getting rid of themselves, and QU isn't close to being the best way of doing it.

In most of the cases listed, being retired is just as useful as being devoured . And being retired is trivially easy for anyone to achieve - just kamikaze against a couple of tough monsters in order to acquire 2 injuries/madnesses, then retire the character and start with a new one. If you really need devouring - like the Rookie Cop or the Sailor - then there are quite a few cards that'll do it - monsters in Innsmouth and Kingsport, Innsmouth encounters, the Innsmouth Jail Cell, and some OW encounters.

Obviously it's the worst kind of craven cowardice and cynical gamesmanship. But you can't blame this interpretation of QU for making it possible. Then again, this interpretation of QU is wrong , so it doesn't really matter either way.