Autothrusters will be the reason the Phantom dies away.

It's a great ship and it has some really interesting builds. The problem is that it has an obvious 'optimal' build that's so much better than anything else.

But there's design space there for the Phantom to move around in. For 4 more points than an X wing, you get +1 Attack, -1 Hull, +1 PS, no Target lock, but Barrel Roll, Evade, Cloak actions and Crew and System upgrades.

KineticOperator's Six Sigma list is an example of a place Phantoms might move towards.

The only reductions we'll see in Phantoms is specifically the Whisper + ACD + VI + FCS builds we see all the time.

Minor correction, Stealth Device is only 3 points, so that puts Fel at 35.

Personally I think you are overstating the effectiveness of Auto-thrusters. It only works at Range 3 (or against Turrets outside their arc). If you up against a turret-less list (any swarm), then it will only work at range 3, and maintaining range 3 + keeping your opponent inside your firing arc is a very non-trivial task. Against Han or Decimators (or Outrider) this is a very nice upgrade, but all that means is a smart opponent will focus on your other ships with his turrets and have his normal-firing-arc ships focus on the auto-thrusters.

Given that it is only 2 points it is a worthwhile investment as a precaution against turrets, but I don't think it will shake up the meta tons.

I think it will be more effective than you think against simple R3 as it is only has to make up for one hit at that range to get more than its value back against similar upgrades. It's going to be golden against turrets. I've seen it work in both cases and it is an incredibly cost effective card.

The problem with this whole range 3 thing is it works both ways and even if that your ideal range it's honestly not that hard to change your flying habits when I know where your ship wants to be.

We'll see, but as ships make an effort to move closer, a boosting barrel rolling ship with high PS can more easily get out of arc, and in my experience, those kinds of ships are better at controlling range than other ships.

And here is the standard lay out you'll see

Sontir Fel (27)

Push The Limit(3)

Royal Guard Pilot (0)

Autothrusters (2)

Stealth Device (4)

Stealth Device only costs 3.

I wonder whether Soontir would be better off with Hull or Shield than Stealth, but that's a local metagame call.

I look forward for the Baron to re-surface. Similarly, Turr Phennir.

I guess I just got so use to seeing the 4 point modifications I put stealth there too. Here is a list that would just be funny and yet in a turret heavy environment could be deadly.

Turr Phennir + Royal Guard TIE + Veteran Instincts + Autothrusters + Stealth Device (31)

Carnor Jax + Push the Limit + Royal Guard TIE + Stealth Device + Autothrusters (34)

Soontir Fel + Royal Guard TIE + Push the Limit + Stealth Device + Autothrusters (35)

I've had this one in my squad builder with hull instead of stealth since Autothrusters were announced.

AlexW, have you had a chance to play that squad yet? If so what against?

Autothrusters will be huge. Then people will realize the value of having vader as a meta tool on the decimator, just for fel and company. Then they'll have an upgrade that doesnt help as much in other machtups. And the cycle of life will continue.

Autothrusters will be huge. Then people will realize the value of having vader as a meta tool on the decimator, just for fel and company. Then they'll have an upgrade that doesnt help as much in other machtups. And the cycle of life will continue.

Eh. I just saw a guy win a very brutal tourney with Vader and a Gunner on a loaded Chiraneau of all ships. He's actually still brutal now.

Soontir has more mobility than Vader due to getting 3 actions to Vader's 2, and at some point Vader will have to take a TL action on the ship he wants to shoot. If you put PTL on Vader, you really hurt his dial. Vader has a slightly higher average damage when he has a TL and Focus to Soontir's Focus, but if Vader has to skip his focus action to reposition or evade, his damage is lower. Vader does get access to PS 10 for 35 points, and is more durable than 35-36 point Soontir.

And of course, there's the problem that ATC Vader won't be legal for at least the next 6 months. I chuckle insde whenever I see people playing with the X1 proxies and say they're "playtesting", like it's going to matter before August.

Push the limit Vader has those 3 actions.. but honestly his 2 actions and no stress are better.. IMO.. plus the Adv Targeting Comp gives him an auto crit.. what's not to like... or fear for his opponents..

I'm a bit fuzzy on the wording of the card.

It says "...if you are beyond Range 2..."

'Beyond range 2' means range 3+, correct? (the + being for the huge ship guns.)

Wait, so this becomes a game of positioning and skill again?

Can't wait!

Yes - this was a blatant jab at turrets, Fat Han in particular.

My mate always flys Fel, Jax & Echo he made it into top 8 with them at store champs last sunday he is a monster with them. He told me he cant waith to fly

Soontir Fel (27)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)

Carnor Jax (26)
Autothrusters (2)

"Echo" (30)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Recon Specialist (3)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

not looking forward to it

I would always take targeting computer on Soontir over stealth device. it makes for far more reliable damage, and you should really be getting shot bu anything that isn't a turret anyway.

It will be interesting if Hull wins out over Stealth once Autothrusters have been released.

It'll depend. As long as the Autothrusters are in play, it's far better - but I'm less convinced of its value for pilots like Jax, who are going to be trying to fly close to the enemy to the point that they're pretty much skin dancing. Any shot the enemy gets is going to be range 1 or 2 - at which point I'd rather have the hull upgrade.

For Soontir, it could go either way, as he's lurking at whatever range is best for the enemy.

The main interceptor pilot I see it bringing back into play (or more accurately bringing into play in the first place) is Kir Kanos. Kanos is a sniper who wants to lurk at range 3 most of the time anyway, and is in a ship fast enough to have a decent chance of doing this. With Autothrusters and Stealth, he's pretty tough, and his lower pilot skill is arguably an advantage - take an evade, let PS7-9 enemies fire first - spending it if you need to - and if not (and with 5 evade dice and a blank-to-dodge change that's pretty likely) you can spend the evade on your return fire, punching him up to Phantom/HLC defender levels of firepower

It will be interesting if Hull wins out over Stealth once Autothrusters have been released.

It'll depend. As long as the Autothrusters are in play, it's far better - but I'm less convinced of its value for pilots like Jax, who are going to be trying to fly close to the enemy to the point that they're pretty much skin dancing. Any shot the enemy gets is going to be range 1 or 2 - at which point I'd rather have the hull upgrade.

For Soontir, it could go either way, as he's lurking at whatever range is best for the enemy.

The main interceptor pilot I see it bringing back into play (or more accurately bringing into play in the first place) is Kir Kanos. Kanos is a sniper who wants to lurk at range 3 most of the time anyway, and is in a ship fast enough to have a decent chance of doing this. With Autothrusters and Stealth, he's pretty tough, and his lower pilot skill is arguably an advantage - take an evade, let PS7-9 enemies fire first - spending it if you need to - and if not (and with 5 evade dice and a blank-to-dodge change that's pretty likely) you can spend the evade on your return fire, punching him up to Phantom/HLC defender levels of firepower

The thing that will keep Kir Kanos from being good is the same thing that always has, his lack of an EPT. Autothrusters has great synergy with his ability but 4 unmodified dice aren't as good as 3 dice with a focus to spend. They have a higher max damage but are less likely to hit. You'll need something in your list to give him an extra action (Vader + Squad Leader) or pass him tokens (Jendon or Fleet Officer). Even if you build something into your list to shore up his weakness, you'd almost always be better off using those same things to buff a more self sufficient ship. He might make a decent addition to the back row of a Howlrunner Swarm but he just makes Howlrunner an even more attractive target.

I had really hoped that the Inceptor fixing card was going to help make non-PTL Interceptor pilots worth taking but unfortunately it hasn't. The only exception might be the Alpha Squadron Interceptor. 5 x Alpha w/Autothrusters might be fun but I'm sure as hell not buying another four Interceptors to try it out. Not being able to fly the five Interceptors I have in a list is bad enough, I don't need nine of them.

I'm a bit fuzzy on the wording of the card.

It says "...if you are beyond Range 2..."

'Beyond range 2' means range 3+, correct? (the + being for the huge ship guns.)

Yup, that's to support the longer ranges in Epic.

Kir Kanos. The truest badass imperial guard.

PTL being an auto include on an interceptor is a myth perpetrated by hack pilots who believe the abilities to reposition twice or turtle make them aces. Come fly in my asteroid field.

On Soontir I can give it to ya, but I'm sure you also doubt the beauty of mini echo, AKA Lt. Lorrir. Yeah yeah pilot skill blah blah... It's the meta, but EPT's don't make or break a great ship. Autothrusters revive the desire to know how to fly around your opponent, like this is meant to be played.

The resurgence of good manoeuvring is a happy event indeed, we'll get some dog fighting back into this dog fighting game.

AlexW, have you had a chance to play that squad yet? If so what against?

No (I tend not to use unreleased materia), and I haven't seen it played yet. I have played against autothrusters and have seen them played in several games, though, and they have more than paid for themselves even without a turret on the board.

Even with the randomness of SD, I like that you can be /capable/ of evading an HLC shot with a slightly larger margin of error on Soontir and a few other ships it's a significantly larger margin). Hull only pays for itself once.

The argument that "hull pays for itself just once" doesn't take into the account how many more shots/hits your opponent needs to kill the ship carrying it. It isn't simply one more shot. What I mean is that it can take a good amount of effort to get through one hull on an interceptor as is if it carrying an evade, focus, and autothrusters.

In general, an HLC doesn't worry me as much anyway, since the most dangerous HLC to an interceptor is on Dash and you should be able to get into his bubble anyway. Additionally, it's worth pointing out that it's nearly impossible to one shot an interceptor with an HLC if it has a hull upgrade and authothrusters, provided it has its action (it requires the right crit after a reroll on the HLC). The same is not true for one with autothrusters and stealth. If the interceptor doesn't have an action it takes four eyeballs to one-shot one with hull+autothrusters while there are more combinations to kill a stealthed autothrusters int. I also think it's far more likely that, if the HLC is your concern, it's far more likely to give you a lot less out of your stealth than a hull.

I can very well see the interceptor play much more of a Role again, and we could see less Turrets as a Result. But that's as far as i agree with the OPs analysis.

Why would the Phantom, especially Whisper see less play? Aside from Torkil Mux there is no new counters to it, and if there would be less turrets, i see the number of Whispers going up, not down. The Phantom also does not have a bad matchup versus Interceptors and Autothrusters don't really concern it either.

So the only Whispers i see played less would probably be the purely imperial player that switches Whisper out for Fel in his lists. Otherwise i see very good possibilities to combine both in lists for double threat.

Autothrusters will be huge. Then people will realize the value of having vader as a meta tool on the decimator, just for fel and company. Then they'll have an upgrade that doesnt help as much in other machtups. And the cycle of life will continue.

Eh. I just saw a guy win a very brutal tourney with Vader and a Gunner on a loaded Chiraneau of all ships. He's actually still brutal now.

There are much better, less self destructive ways to play Chiraneau right now. For example if you're worried about phantoms, vet instincts and/or rebel captive get the job done without blowing youself up. Gunner and vader is alot of wasted points against falcons.

I can very well see the interceptor play much more of a Role again, and we could see less Turrets as a Result.

Also, I wonder how much learning to fly a falcon etc so it's front arc is a threat is going to be a thing. Let's say you have fel and carnor against han and they have initiative and han's able to do something crazy like boost out of fel's arc and aim his face at carnor, negating the autothrusters. Will be interesting to see how often something like that happens with the interceptors that arent PS9 (fel).

Wow, you are completely overestimating the value of Autothrusters.

It will not prevent getting one-shot. Let's say Whisper is firing at Fel at range 3; that's 4v5 attack/defense. If Whisper converts to all hits and Fel rolls all blanks, he still gets one-shot.

This is yet another drop in the bucket. RGP didn't save the Interceptor and it was the same attempt. I predict this will be like Munitions Failsafe. Cute and useful when it does crop up, but it just will not have a significant impact. The high PS is better at making the Interceptor viable.

And of course, there's the problem that ATC Vader won't be legal for at least the next 6 months. I chuckle insde whenever I see people playing with the X1 proxies and say they're "playtesting", like it's going to matter before August.

Perhaps they are just having fun. Remember FUN? For some people, that is enough, and what is more SW fun than Vader in a ship that is actually cost effective to be worth including in a list?!?

I think it's going to be huge. Even against non-turret ships, it lets you take a direct line on the enemy ships. You become far more durable at Range 3, allowing the jump to Range 1 knife-fighting much easier.

Wow, you are completely overestimating the value of Autothrusters.

It will not prevent getting one-shot. Let's say Whisper is firing at Fel at range 3; that's 4v5 attack/defense. If Whisper converts to all hits and Fel rolls all blanks, he still gets one-shot.

This is yet another drop in the bucket. RGP didn't save the Interceptor and it was the same attempt. I predict this will be like Munitions Failsafe. Cute and useful when it does crop up, but it just will not have a significant impact. The high PS is better at making the Interceptor viable.

so your argument is using the best case scenario for Whisper and the Worst case for Sontir Fel. In all the games I've Played and watched where Autothrusters is being used, it has given a minumum of 5 evades to the user. That is and extremely efficent upgrade for 2 points. Over selling Autothrusters would be to call it broken or over powered and there may be arguments on here over that soon enough.