Take those away and Fat Han is no longer a super threat.

True, but HSF was always a popular and at the same time very disliked list.

Popular but not overpowering dominant.

There is also something to the argument that the rise of turrets is linked to the decline of swarms, and effects that make swarms viable again will carry over into a decline in the effectiveness of turrets.

Popular but not overpowering dominant.

Oh yes, there's no doubt that 3PO and to a lesser degree R2-D2 have pushed Han into the upper realms, but even then it took the Z-95 to make Fat Han viable, which then lead IMO anyway to the Han & Corran/Jan lists we see.

My point is just that everyone is suggesting ways to "fix" turrets when that is really only treating the symptom and that, if you really want to think like a game designer and possibly give the folks at FFG an idea, you need to examine the root causes.

Overpowered is not the word I would use to describe turrets

I would use the phrase "drool-inducingly boring"

What people see in ships that reduce the game from planning and maneuvering to dice rolling is really beyond me. Well, maybe the turrets are having fun being able to dodge arcs while the arced ships get to watch enviously.

My god, there seems to be a problem with everything lately... ''FFG needs to fix this.'' ''FFG needs to fix that.'' ''Here's my idea.'' ''I think the problem is...''

There is no problem with turrets. It is currently over abundant because we keep seeing post that they are the best and not that hard to master. Copy a winning list and go to a tournament near you. Last year was Biggs walks the Dogs and the year before the Tie Swarm. Now wave 5 introduce 2 new turret ships, no wonder we see them everywhere, they're the new toys of everyone.

Before wave 4/3PO, I saw a lot of post that the Falcon was very good, but in the end not that great because it lacked some defensive abilities and number, we were still in the 4+ship meta. Now they finally introduced a way for them to take a beating, like any 60+ ship should, and some good filler with the Z-95, and suddenly it's too powerful and should be nerfed to near uselessness by gimping his attack... 2 attack dice on a 60 point ship... yeah right, that will come to the table.... need an action to activate out of arc attack or move turret so 3 attack dice without modifier... because Blaster Turret and Expose really see a lot of playtime...

There is no fix needed, turret is now a very efficient part of the game, as it should be, and people need to deal with it. Every time we see an efficient list posted on this forum that as been proven to work, we see a lot of copycat taking it to the table. Since wave 5 introduced turret ship and before that the Falcon was the hotness, no wonder we see them everywhere, not because they are overpowered and need fixing.

Thing I see is a lot of folks hating on turrets, "easy mode", "no fun". Blah blah blah. How do you folks react to xwing pilots who want boost and barrel roll nerfed? Turrets are what keep hyper mobile ships honest. It feels like some of you are looking to get interceptor easy mode or are upset that arc dodging isn't an auto- win.

X-wing enthusiasts want x-wings to boost/barrel-roll, not to other way around

I love my x's with neither.

I was under the impression that the tougher ships were meant to keep the more mobile (and much more fragile ships) honest. Interceptors have never been anywhere near "god mode". They have never even been considered very competitive (outside of Fel). Interceptors pay for their mobility and are very fragile for their points. Big turrets ignore most everything they pay points for. It would be like if there was a weapon that ignored shields, it would be seen as two much for those ships that rely on shields to exist.

I look forward to the day where every ship is considered a competitive choice and a potential Worlds winner.

There is a weapon thst ignores shields. It is called, Proton Bomb. A wings rightly fear it.

There is a weapon thst ignores shields. It is called, Proton Bomb. A wings rightly fear it.

Oh man. I just had the image of an A-Wing only mod that let it lay mines. Fast, maneuverable, and capable of putting down a terrible surprise.

That would be fun, I imagine the mines wound be about the size of the whole a wing hull though.

There is a weapon thst ignores shields. It is called, Proton Bomb. A wings rightly fear it.

So should Phantoms, but I don't regularly see them being played.

Needs to come with another ship besides the Firespray.

I think the only things I would change are:

Make Engine Upgrade small ships only

Remove barrel roll from 2400

Make their dials more like the shuttle and less like a tie fighter, because WTF.

There is a weapon thst ignores shields. It is called, Proton Bomb. A wings rightly fear it.

Oh man. I just had the image of an A-Wing only mod that let it lay mines. Fast, maneuverable, and capable of putting down a terrible surprise.

Nah, give me a mine laying huge ship for the Imperials.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Beta-class_ETR-3_escort_transport

8-).

There is a weapon thst ignores shields. It is called, Proton Bomb. A wings rightly fear it.

Oh man. I just had the image of an A-Wing only mod that let it lay mines. Fast, maneuverable, and capable of putting down a terrible surprise.

Nah, give me a mine laying huge ship for the Imperials.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Beta-class_ETR-3_escort_transport

8-).

That's definitely a large ship, not a huge ship.

Aye, there's the rub.

But I trust FFG, they'll make it work. .

There is a weapon thst ignores shields. It is called, Proton Bomb. A wings rightly fear it.

So should Phantoms, but I don't regularly see them being played.

Needs to come with another ship besides the Firespray.

It does. I got one with my Decimator.

Remember chatting with the FFG guys at nationals for USA. They have quite a few undisclosed options to counter against turrets though they save them (and other upgrade ideas) until they are needed. Turrets aren't OP, Dash is dead at range 1, decimators die when focus fired. Is there an issue here? Nope. Beaten them all and lost to them all, just learn to play.

Most people don't really find them overpowered. To most people, however, they are too ubiqitous. The landscape is too monotone because everybody is flying turrets.

My point is just that everyone is suggesting ways to "fix" turrets when that is really only treating the symptom and that, if you really want to think like a game designer and possibly give the folks at FFG an idea, you need to examine the root causes.

Yup.

Turrets came to the fore because of two reasons: Phantoms and the death of the Swarm (and the latter has to do with the former).

Phantoms are really only that powerful because of VI. Drop them to their natural PS and they become much more manageable.

I don't think phantoms are that powerful people just haven't figured out how to fly against them yet

I don't think phantoms are that powerful people just haven't figured out how to fly against them yet

Phantoms are as powerful as your opponent's dice.

Catching them and controlling them is possible, unlike avoiding turrets. The problem is then your opponent rolls those four greens and kind of invalidates your efforts

And then there's the fact that they can only target lock via FCS, so the first shot is completely unmodified. Oftentimes, this just means the first plop of four dice being four perfect hits is just all the more infuriating.

On the other hand, phantoms are also susceptible to bad dice. If its greens fail, its just a 40 point head hunter. Turreted ships have guaranteed defenses and can still spike on the damage dice, which imo just makes them a greater pain in the ass

There is a weapon thst ignores shields. It is called, Proton Bomb. A wings rightly fear it.

So should Phantoms, but I don't regularly see them being played.

Needs to come with another ship besides the Firespray.

There is a weapon thst ignores shields. It is called, Proton Bomb. A wings rightly fear it.

So should Phantoms, but I don't regularly see them being played.

Needs to come with another ship besides the Firespray.

It does. I got one with my Decimator.

The Firespray doesn't have any Proton Bombs, just Seismic and Proximity Mines.

The TIE Bomber has a Proton Bomb, though, as does the Decimator.