If your heroes get 4 search cards before the quest even starts, you are justified in destroying them by any means necessary.

Sorry for necroposting, but...

I just grabed lieutenants from the base game and looked throught. Now I see why people talk about power of Baron Zacharet's plot deck.

In fact I don't see how it is even acceptible to play with this card:

Meticulous Planning 4 Threat to Purchase

Exhaust this card after a hero draws (and chooses to keep) a Search card to force that hero to place that Search card on the bottom of the deck and draw a new one.

Seeds of Betrayal 1 Threat

it takes away excitment of ever getting treasure card. Maybe it is not imblanced, but it feels soo frustrating like... like it is OL's version of Treasurehunter or Marshall... even I feel bad for heroes.

If anyone played with it please, share your impressions: was it in fact frustrating or not as bad as I imagine?

I agree with you that Meticulous Planning is immensely powerful. Against a casual group of heroes I'd say avoid using it. In fact, avoid using Baron Zachareth's deck altogether. It is very stifling. Certain groups may flat out quit your campaign because they feel they just have no chances to get stronger because all the options are ripped away and the excitement of finding a treasure chest is gone.

That said, creating a resource starved environment that results in an undergeared hero party is the Overlord's greatest weapon in winning the campaign. For example, if the heroes don't have strong armor equipped on at least a few key heroes by the start of Act II, your Act II monsters will rip them to pieces in very short order. And if the heroes don't have strong Act II weapons for the finale, they'll really struggle with downing the big bosses like Mirklace.

If your heroes are highly experienced at the game and use powerful hero combos (e.g. Elder Mok Bard, Logan Lashley Treasure Hunter, Astarra Runemaster) and know what the good items in the game are and save for them (e.g. Rune Plates, Crossbows, Mana Weaves) its a different story.

Given the ridiculous amount of gold and treasure the heroes can acquire from a skilled TH, you should no longer have reservations to pulling out the big guns like Meticulous Planning.

For the record, great topic guys!

I've aquired recently the game with LotW, MoR, TT, SoN and LoR, along with 5 liutenants packs from the base game, so Im quite unsecure about how to put things together. I've been working on a strategy to avoid the Zachareth's deck obvious choice, since sabotaging shopping phase isnt my goal.

Im looking towards a fatigue burning strategy, since it can build me time (essential in encounters part I in most cases). I'm inclined to use basic II. My optimized deck would be with: befuddle x 2, blinding speed x 2, uncontrolled power x 2, mental error, flurry, reflective ward and grease trap, along with some magus pieces: unholy ritual x 2 and word of despair (maybe add diabolic power, dunno) and a couple from universal: Dark resilience and refresh (15 cards total).

Looking into some synergy, I thought in using Endless thirst (Lady Eliza) plot deck, but just willing to use the basic plot card (Bloodline) and Bad Dreams.

The idea is recycling the deck faster as possible with unholy ritual (targeting a monster group with at least 4 units) + refresh, while draining fatigue (Bad dreams, word of despair, grease trap, reflective ward etc). To give my units some extended duration, I plan to use Bloodline every turn on my big group (menders, Volucrix reavers, bandits etc) and a dark resilience to heal them up.

I will be giving just one fortune per quest and maybe I could buy something usefull in the future.

Any thoughts?

Eliza's deck is one of the weakest in the game in my opinion. Her agent is also probably one of the worst in the game (I think Serena takes the cake here).

In my view, using up a point of threat needs to generate a lot of value for the Overlord in order to be worthwhile. Not only did you have to work to earn that threat, plus pay the purchase price of the plot card, but you also give the hero precious fortune when you use it. If a hero turns a miss into a hit with a reroll, then you may well have given them MORE value than you got out of using the card, which is a disaster!

Personally, I only feel justified in spending a point of threat if I feel that doing so likely give me at least one hero action's worth of value. If the card costs 2 threat, then it should give at least two hero actions worth of value.

Lets run each card through their paces using this metric:

Bloodline:

- This doesn't cost threat, that's a positive. However, because it doesn't do anything more than move damage around, it would rarely be useful in my view. Pretty forgettable unless a monster is saved by a single health point, and/or you have Flesh Moulders that can transfer the damage to themselves and then heal them off. Over many turns this might actually make a difference, so this card is alright. 0 threat cards are pretty cool in general.

Bad Dreams:

- Risky. If about 2 heroes fail their test, then it might generate an action's worth of value by forcing a rest action (A rest action's average value is about 4 fatigue), however fatigue is also easily recoverable by many hero classes/abilities in very effiicient ways. Characters like Mordrog and Elder Mok spring to mind. I would say you only really got your bang for the money if 3+ heroes fail, and thats unlikely to happen.

Night's Embrace:

- Bad. Turning a monster Dark does nothing in itself, so definitely will not meet the hero action equivalence.

Fangs in the Dark:

- Bad. Healing a monster for 3 hearts will often *not* be equivalent to what a hero's attack action can dish out. This is especially true the later in the campaign you go, when hero attacks can average 5+ damage and have multiple additional bonuses for them, such as fatigue recovery, healing, etc.

The Power of Blood:

- Bad. Moving a monster a single extra space is poor value. Doing a single point of damage more if they are Dark is rarely going to mean much either.

The Lady's Care:

- Pretty bad. As mentioned above, healing 1-3 hearts is very rarely going to be equivalent to a hero's attack. This *might* be worth it if you had a whole bunch of Dark monsters in a group that were all mildly injured and that all recover hearts, for like 6+ hearts healed. However, the likelihood of this is quite low, and it cost a whopping 3 threat on top just to purchase this card.

Nighttime Hunt:

- Bad. In order for this card to be of value, that one extra yellow power die, or that one extra black defense die must have prevented a monster from dying from a hero attack, or made the difference in downing a hero. Because dice are unpredictable, the best we can do is average out the result. This means an average of about 2 hearts more damage, or 2 shields of defense, neither of which are equivalent to what a hero is capable of in an action.

Scent of Blood:

- Decent. This is an acceptable choice for one threat, despite the pre-requisite. Its a Critical Blow-ish effect with a re-roll on the attack die, so solid as the attack is unlikely to miss and should surge if you use a monster with appropriate attack dice. A miss deprives a monster of its entire payload of damage, which could be many hearts + conditions + effects. This card scales into Act II because of the value loss it can prevent. It is especially good on a monster that lacks surge effects such as Sorcerers. This allows them to do insane damage when used in conjunction with Sorcery!

Summon Agent:

- Pretty bad. At least Eliza replaces only a master monster. If you're using a monster group like Kobolds, where you are giving only a little to summon her in terms of monster resources, this can be decent. However, keep in mind you also risk the agent card whenever you use her. This means that the true cost of summoning Eliza is closer to 5 threat than 2. Can Eliza's presence *instead* of that monster monster equal up to 5 whole hero actions? Given her awful defense dice and health, this is unlikely and grows even more unlikely the better the heroes' weapons and powers become. Because heroes can alpha strike her into oblivion in a single round, her powerful healing abilities don't really mean anything at all. Measure this up against what a powerful agent like Baron Zachareth wields at only a slightly higher cost. No comparison.

So in summary, only two of the cards in her entire deck are actually solid. Given that, if you focused on those two cards with your threat resources, you are getting pretty good value from your deck and you might do well. The threat of a critical blow whenever heroes are low on health will give them concern if you can put the pressure on.

Hope this guideline might help you in evaluating your lieutenant decks! I like the theme of your Overlord deck. The Magus class is generally considered weak but loading up the party with fatigue *is* a powerful strategy. I recommend monsters like Barghests and Changelings to further this aim. Also, I highly recommend purchasing the Imploding Rift card from Shadowmancer. It is one of the best cards in the game, and has the potential to fully fatigue the entire hero group!

Dommus, what hero composition do you have?

Value of your deck highly depends on it. Basic 2 is very good but can be hindered by heroes stat distibution. Also Word of despair will be near useless if they all have 3+ or 4+ willpower

Scrolling you deck fast is never a bad idea thought. If you want to stamina starve them and they have low will save, I would advice to use Imploding Rift, and Mistrust if they tend to stick together. They both from shadowmancer deck from SoN. Followed by traecherous shadow this can be devastating for low will characters

Wow, ty so much for the heads up! Yes, I plan of using very few cards from lady Eliza plot deck (Bad dreams + Bloodline), and I may grab Scent of Blood if I manage to KO the heroes often (I doubt it).

Well, I may grab imploding rift then.

They did not decide yet, but I suspect they will run Necromancer, Berserker, Disciple and a Wildlander.

Seems to me Bloodline + Dark resilience will be a very effective combo for survival and I will be able to do a new dark resislience in the next 2 - 3 turns with the unholy rituals + refresh.

And yes, I did look up Barghests and changelings, they sure are good options.

Wow, ty so much for the heads up! Yes, I plan of using very few cards from lady Eliza plot deck (Bad dreams + Bloodline), and I may grab Scent of Blood if I manage to KO the heroes often (I doubt it).

Well, I may grab imploding rift then.

They did not decide yet, but I suspect they will run Necromancer, Berserker, Disciple and a Wildlander.

Seems to me Bloodline + Dark resilience will be a very effective combo for survival and I will be able to do a new dark resislience in the next 2 - 3 turns with the unholy rituals + refresh.

And yes, I did look up Barghests and changelings, they sure are good options.

You will surely like Dark Priests from Guardians of Deephall they have nice stamina drain too

Plagued Worms are fantastic also - disease (from the master) and the burrow ability.

I'm surprised not a single OL has mentioned the OP plot deck for Rylan Olliven, "Inner Corruption"

All I have to say is Deceiptful Scribe........................3 threat for 1 XP.

After the introduction and two-three quests, even if they are Rumour Quests, the OL can easily have level three class cards in the deck. By interlude or of the end of interlude, the OL could have two level three cards in his deck.

-Cursain

Cursain：

As my opinion, plot cards have 3 different places to stay ,

1.Plot deck , you can purchase and put it into your game area

2:Game area , the cards you already have purchased and then you can use in the right timing and pay its threat-token cost .

3.Game box , the cards you can't use or purchase until the end of the campaign .

So , "Deceitful Scribe" just offers 1 xp only 1 time in each campaign.

Cursain：

As my opinion, plot cards have 3 different places to stay ,

1.Plot deck , you can purchase and put it into your game area

2:Game area , the cards you already have purchased and then you can use in the right timing and pay its threat-token cost .

3.Game box , the cards you can't use or purchase until the end of the campaign .

So , "Deceitful Scribe" just offers 1 xp only 1 time in each campaign.

Absolutely. Game box = gone for good.