I got schooled this past weekend.

Tanking Falcons beat me twice. Once he was on the run, with a HP left....timing me out with more points in destroyed ships.

Second time it was a fight...again, one HP away from dying, but managed to win the slugfest.

I couldn't close the deal on falcon builds. Solo w/ C3po, R2, Lando, MF and combo's of such were just too hard for my dash to take out. I WAS using a 2 ship build. But Falcons are definatly still in the game.

Anyway, I'm looking at lists that can spike damage fast to take out falcons...but most of them wind up at low PS and end up being meat for Phantom.

Basically, it looks like this....if you can take out Han with multiple ships, you're dead against Phantom (echo or whisper) who fly rings around you and blast you to bits b/c you're low PS. Then, there is Dash also in the wings...flying circles around anyone with less than ps 7 and blasting them to bits with HLC while arc dodging. Decimator is also milling around, but again you only need lots of ships to take him out. This is basically the reason for the Deci/Phantom builds....because you have the Phantom problem again when you hard counter Decimator with numbers.

Seems to me like a vicious cycle.

So, I'm playing around with squad builder...and I think I find a build that can smash that problem ship in the opposing force with little resistance. Target selection will be the primary KEY tactic here. You have to blast what will kill you...and fast...so that your ships can take out the rest of the squad.

Hilariously....It's 3/4 X-Wing's. A fighter that's pretty much given up on competetively.

Check it.

Lt. Blount

-Deadeye

-Ion Pulse Missle

-Munitions Failsafe

Hobbie Klivian

-R3A2

Biggs Darklighter

-R4D6

Red Squadron Pilot

-R2D6

-Draw Their Fire

=100pts

So here you have it. I think if this is flown well....any other squad might be quite hard pressed to beat this.

Find the problem ship in the opposing squad. The one you fear the most...and brazenly go after it, don't fear the HLC's or even the Phantom's that fire first. Just stay close to Biggs and let him absorb the massive hits if there are any. With Red's help, he should take no more than 2 hits per ship regardless of the weapon...HLC, massive reds...it shouldnt matter.

Hopefully Biggs will give you time.

Meanwhile, find that ship that gives you problems. Blount Ionizes it...even a big ship...with his auto-hit, and hobbie stresses it. (Utilise target lock instead of focus to keep stress-free of course) After your prey is helpless, pounce on it next turn. Kill phantom, kill off Han, Cripple Decimator.

You have only to fly right and this should take it all on with a good and solid chance of victory.

Thoughts? Comments?

I may try this a bit on Vassal.

First thing I'm saying: Why use Munitions Failsafe with a pilot who always hits?

Hahaha...because it's late and I forgot.

Well, that's one point to spend!

If you hate falcons where is wedge?

I think the old Luke,wedge & Biggs trio could do ok if not better.

Frankly, Deadeye Blount is just terrible overall. You add paying 8 points over a Tala to gain +2 pilot skill and a single-use Ion Missile. After the middle lands, he adds almost nothing that a Tala wouldn't already give you. Even VI would be better than Deadeye, as at least that still provides value after the middle is gone, and PS8 Target Lock is probably as good as firing off the Focus. But you're still paying five points over a Tala to gain +4 Pilot skill. He was a Stealth Device counter who arrived when the Stealth Device was already leaving the meta.

If you hate falcons where is wedge?

I think the old Luke,wedge & Biggs trio could do ok if not better.

I was just thinking, anything with outmaneuver would work right? gives the "Wedge effect" to anything with an EPT? pretty good against fat Han, well, specifically 3P0, just not sure what you would put it on.

It seems like the EPT is going to be PTL, VI, or maybe Predator or Expose depending on what ships you fly, so not sure what you could manage to put it on, but its good against Han.

Haven often thought of putting outmaneuver on whisper and testing it. I bet its pretty dumb, or may putting it on Echo, since he is a tad more maneuverable, and just sucking up the loss of VI.

Might be good, anyone have an feedback? Aww, ill write up a list and post it in the correct sub forum and get feedback there.

I disagree with PhantomFO on the overcost. Or, I should say, I think it has potential. I think it could work. What you need is to hit that specific ship and then nail it. Your build works for that. It has potential. It would be overcosted if done without your purpose in mind, but sometimes you gotta pay the points to do what you want. It would work on Phantoms or whatever.

The only thing on Phantoms is that if it's cloaked, you would still have a hard time hitting it when cloaked. Oh, being at Range 1 and it gets no actions is nice. Green dice are fickle, but sometimes your opponent can actually roll evades!

The only thing I disike about the list is that the Z-95 only has 2 red dice. After he fires his missile, he doesn't do that much. I think 4 X-wings are not a bad set up, though. They have the firepower to hit things hard. They have better manueverability to catch up with Falcons that run. They don't have great evade or the B-wing's shields to help them live, though. Still, it would take a lot of effort to one shot them. To avoid Phantoms flanking you, just protect your flanks.

I would like to see how your list works. It would not do well against Swarms, but who takes those these days? I haven't seen one in a while.

I'd rather take Tarn than the Red, not that many PS3/4 ships being used lately so I think it's a safe PS downgrade for the ability for extra offense.

OK so I think the biggest problem here against fat Hans is your predictability and lack of maneuverability. X-wings while iconic have no boost or barrel roll and are not cheap. Fat Han is going to send his z95's 1 way and Han the other way. You're going to have to pick to engage. You won't want to split your forces up because then Biggs is useless. If you go full bore after Han he will out run you and arc dodge since he moves last and will boost. Then you 3 z95's behind you chipping away. If you engage the z'sz's then it's Han behind you.

If you keep Biggs in front he's going to down in the 1st or 2nd pass. If he's in the back he may not be able to protect who's up front who will get targeted.

I definitely see where you're going and the theory is sound. Ion pulsing Han and then bringing everyone in for range 1 shots would deal a whole lot of hurt. But a good player is going to be sticking at range 3 and avoiding Blount like the plague.

How can a Fat Han avoid the first approach? If you zip by the Z-95's, there is only so much wiggle room when someone is coming straight at you. All it takes is one turn being able to TL the Falcon and you can Ionize it.

Also, if the Fat Han tries to screen with the Z-95's, the other ships can just spend a turn smashing one off them down for a good advantage and then push on.

I think that squad has some potential, I would be curious to see if you can create some consistency. Give it a try, and fwiw I think the deadeye blount is excellent insurance vs. Phantoms, and a way to keep those large ships from running towards the board edge (or auto winning if they do).

When you drop Munitions Failsafe, you could throw in Garven Dreis for some extra Focus love.

Roark plus ion turret

Nera + flechette torpedo + Dead Eye

Blue with FCS

Rookie + R3-A2

Roark punches Nera to fire torpedo (with focus from Dead Eye) at PS 12, causing phantom to gain stress and not use ACD. Roark fires at phantom and ionizes it.

Blue pounds it and rookie too. could also R3-A2 to add on another stress.

Vs a Fat Han you take on the Talas 1st. PS12 the blue or rookie to shoot at the Tala, followed next by Nera. With 3 ships firing first you should be able to whitle down the support. Then go after Han and stress him with R3-A2 and out PS him with Roark.

How can a Fat Han avoid the first approach? If you zip by the Z-95's, there is only so much wiggle room when someone is coming straight at you. All it takes is one turn being able to TL the Falcon and you can Ionize it.

Also, if the Fat Han tries to screen with the Z-95's, the other ships can just spend a turn smashing one off them down for a good advantage and then push on.

Fat Han doesn't set up straight across? Fat Han slow plays then 4 forwards + boosts out of arc? I would never send my falcon straight toward this squad. I would probably skirt the outsides going very fast+boosting out of arc. All the z's need to do is take out Biggs or get him down to where Han can kill him. Dodging x-wings isn't exactly hard.

How can a Fat Han avoid the first approach? If you zip by the Z-95's, there is only so much wiggle room when someone is coming straight at you. All it takes is one turn being able to TL the Falcon and you can Ionize it.

Also, if the Fat Han tries to screen with the Z-95's, the other ships can just spend a turn smashing one off them down for a good advantage and then push on.

Fat Han doesn't set up straight across? Fat Han slow plays then 4 forwards + boosts out of arc? I would never send my falcon straight toward this squad. I would probably skirt the outsides going very fast+boosting out of arc. All the z's need to do is take out Biggs or get him down to where Han can kill him. Dodging x-wings isn't exactly hard.

That's the thing that makes Fat Han most dangerous in my opinion--moving last and boosting. That's the thing that makes (rebel) lists that would normally be strong against a high-hp low-agility large-base target weak--Han can arc dodge them.

Swapping out the Xs for Bs may not be what you have in mind, but here is a squad I have been thinking about:

Lt. Blount w/ Deadeye, Ion Pulse Missiles, Hull upgrade (24)

Blue Squadron Pilot w/ E2 title, Tactician (25)

Blue Squadron Pilot w/ E2 title, Tactician (25)

Gold Squadron Pilot w/ BTL-A4 title, Ion cannon turret, R3-A2 (25)

99 points

I really like your Blount w/ Deadeye idea; I gave him the hull upgrade to last just a little longer. The rest of this is a list that's been seen (I think it was made popular by MrFroggies?) before, creating a list that has lots of staying power and board control possibilities. I really like adding the upcoming Y-wing title card to this build, able to deal double stress to the target.

I'd rather take Tarn than the Red, not that many PS3/4 ships being used lately so I think it's a safe PS downgrade for the ability for extra offense.

This. Literally no reason to run 1 Red Sqd. pilot instead of Tarn.

I'm not trying to hate or anything but there's a reason we don't see 3 x wings in competitive lists. They're not a cheap swarm fighter like the z's and a's to a degree. They don't have turrets to deal with arc dodgers. They can't boost or barrel roll to get out of or into arcs after the initial maneuver. They're not a bad ship just with how the meta is they are only an OK ship. Also your highest PS is 6 in an environment where the top squads are running 7 on the low end or 9 at the high end or they're bringing swarms which is a different story. With X's you need to really ask yourself if those pilot abilities are worth it. Biggs is always worth it but you could fulfill those other roles with other ships.

I'll give it to ya that you'll most likely win a lot of matches against big ships that joust you. But you need to have a solid plan against tie and z swarms, falcon+z's, falcon+outrider, falcon+ewing, outrider+ewing, decimator+ties, decimator+phantom, decimator+interceptor, phantom+mini swarm, and even 3 stupid bounty hunters.

Those are the types of lists you should expect to see there and and you need something that can counter a few and deal with a few if everything goes well.

Also be prepared for good players not to joust you unless they are running a swarm. They are going to make it a point to stay out of Blount's arc so you don't get that missile off. Formation flying just isn't very strong in today's meta.

Swapping out the Xs for Bs may not be what you have in mind, but here is a squad I have been thinking about:

Lt. Blount w/ Deadeye, Ion Pulse Missiles, Hull upgrade (24)

Blue Squadron Pilot w/ E2 title, Tactician (25)

Blue Squadron Pilot w/ E2 title, Tactician (25)

Gold Squadron Pilot w/ BTL-A4 title, Ion cannon turret, R3-A2 (25)

99 points

I really like your Blount w/ Deadeye idea; I gave him the hull upgrade to last just a little longer. The rest of this is a list that's been seen (I think it was made popular by MrFroggies?) before, creating a list that has lots of staying power and board control possibilities. I really like adding the upcoming Y-wing title card to this build, able to deal double stress to the target.

I actually like this list quite a bit. Althought Han doesn't need actions for offense, he DOES need them for defense--boost, evade, Lando. If you manage to double stress him just once, it could really snowball in your favor from that point.

Swapping out the Xs for Bs may not be what you have in mind, but here is a squad I have been thinking about:

Lt. Blount w/ Deadeye, Ion Pulse Missiles, Hull upgrade (24)

Blue Squadron Pilot w/ E2 title, Tactician (25)

Blue Squadron Pilot w/ E2 title, Tactician (25)

Gold Squadron Pilot w/ BTL-A4 title, Ion cannon turret, R3-A2 (25)

99 points

I really like your Blount w/ Deadeye idea; I gave him the hull upgrade to last just a little longer. The rest of this is a list that's been seen (I think it was made popular by MrFroggies?) before, creating a list that has lots of staying power and board control possibilities. I really like adding the upcoming Y-wing title card to this build, able to deal double stress to the target.

Something like this can deal with some of the builds we see and survive longer since there b-wings. That 1 point between a rookie and blue squadron is easily the most cost efficient 1 point in the game.

How can a Fat Han avoid the first approach? If you zip by the Z-95's, there is only so much wiggle room when someone is coming straight at you. All it takes is one turn being able to TL the Falcon and you can Ionize it.

Also, if the Fat Han tries to screen with the Z-95's, the other ships can just spend a turn smashing one off them down for a good advantage and then push on.

Fat Han doesn't set up straight across? Fat Han slow plays then 4 forwards + boosts out of arc? I would never send my falcon straight toward this squad. I would probably skirt the outsides going very fast+boosting out of arc. All the z's need to do is take out Biggs or get him down to where Han can kill him. Dodging x-wings isn't exactly hard.

That's the thing that makes Fat Han most dangerous in my opinion--moving last and boosting. That's the thing that makes (rebel) lists that would normally be strong against a high-hp low-agility large-base target weak--Han can arc dodge them.

Lt. Blount w/ Deadeye only needs to be in Range 3 at the end of the turn to fire. If the squadron flies either directly at the Falcon, I don't see how it can get away. I mean, you plan to just be at Range 3 of where it's going to be. Fly conservatively and expect them to be slippery.

OK....if the Falcon stays outside of Range 3, you just light the Z-95's up. 3 X-wings and another Z-95 can make short work of those.

Another option for the preceding list is to replace Blount with Roark, Ion, and Intel Agent. Roark with Intel Agent could be great for lining up range 2 shots with your Bs and Ys, as well as firing first vs Phantoms.

How can a Fat Han avoid the first approach? If you zip by the Z-95's, there is only so much wiggle room when someone is coming straight at you. All it takes is one turn being able to TL the Falcon and you can Ionize it.

Also, if the Fat Han tries to screen with the Z-95's, the other ships can just spend a turn smashing one off them down for a good advantage and then push on.

Fat Han doesn't set up straight across? Fat Han slow plays then 4 forwards + boosts out of arc? I would never send my falcon straight toward this squad. I would probably skirt the outsides going very fast+boosting out of arc. All the z's need to do is take out Biggs or get him down to where Han can kill him. Dodging x-wings isn't exactly hard.

That's the thing that makes Fat Han most dangerous in my opinion--moving last and boosting. That's the thing that makes (rebel) lists that would normally be strong against a high-hp low-agility large-base target weak--Han can arc dodge them.

Lt. Blount w/ Deadeye only needs to be in Range 3 at the end of the turn to fire. If the squadron flies either directly at the Falcon, I don't see how it can get away. I mean, you plan to just be at Range 3 of where it's going to be. Fly conservatively and expect them to be slippery.

OK....if the Falcon stays outside of Range 3, you just light the Z-95's up. 3 X-wings and another Z-95 can make short work of those.

It's not that easy with x-wings. If they were the falcon slayer we'd be seeing them way more. Let's also not forget that whisper and felt will be out there and good arc dodge players can fly circles around x's and z's.

Check it.

Lt. Blount

-Deadeye

-Ion Pulse Missle

-Munitions Failsafe

Hobbie Klivian

-R3A2

Biggs Darklighter

-R4D6

Red Squadron Pilot

-R2D6

-Draw Their Fire

=100pts

You've got your Hobbie Stress Machine, Blount for ion(who can really only ionize 1 ship once), Red Squadron for Tanking, and then Biggs again for Tanking.

Biggest concern is where is your killing going to come from. Hobbie can be aggressive, but Biggs and Red are going to need to fly conservatively to stay a live.

You got other problems as well.

I'll go through the ships one at a time

First Hobbie - This is a great ship. I have no concerns at all. He can stress ships pretty much every time he shoots someone with TL.

Biggs and Red Squadron my biggest issue is that you have two tanking ships. Biggs flown well should be enough. If have problems tanking I think you need more practice tanking rather than more Tanks. The problem with too many tanks is it takes away from your attacking. (Tanking ships need to fly differently, staying at range three and getting behind asteroids)

Blount. I saved him for last because he has the most problems. #1 he never misses so lose Munitions fail safe is a waste-- no brainer. Daredevil basically makes it easier to get ordnance off for a low PS ship. Blount is more mid range so he doesn't have that much trouble getting his missiles off. Ion Pulse Missile - at first glance this seems like a great missile for Blount since it is actually going to d exactly 1 damage as well as two ion tokens no matter what. My problem is that it doesn't do that much damage and once he shoots it his 2 attack dice basic attack isn't going to do much damage. All together you spent 5 points on Blount's ordnance, for that price you could have just bought him an assault missile. Granted an Assault missile isn't super great against a falcon, but it is still 4 attack dice and it is great against things like swarms and Phantoms.

What if the falcon player deploys his falcon directly across from you but facing sideways? Now he can just run back and fourth along his edge until you start doing 4 forwards or 3 banks to commit to an approach and then he zips and boosts pasts blounts arc which again isn't a hard thing to do. Also don't underestimate those z's. Yeah in a perfect world you'd 1 shot em all but they can make things difficult if they live.

It's not that easy with x-wings. If they were the falcon slayer we'd be seeing them way more. Let's also not forget that whisper and felt will be out there and good arc dodge players can fly circles around x's and z's.

If Fat Han is sitting back and not getting within Range 3, then just light up the Z-95's. It wouldn't take too long to wipe them out. Get within range of those guys and start 1 forward. I bet concentrated fire would kill one a turn.

Fat Han has to be pointing your way if he's going to zip past you with a 4 forward. That won't be hard to see coming.