This is a company that can print and distribute card packs six different ways before breakfast. If they want to do it, it'll happen.

Call it the 2015 Tournament Expansion Pack. Include a new damage deck with a distinctly different colored card backing. Done.

And if they want, they can throw in some other goodies. I'd love to see a few new pilots and upgrades, tokens for elite talents/droids/crew (like the third-party tokens), Range 1 and 2 rulers, maybe some new asteroids.

I like this "tournament pack" idea. This could also be a way for FFG to issue a "munitions fix", be it reprinted cards, longer ordnance range rulers, whatever. Lots they could do with this, and it could be considered a "Core Add-on" and not necessary for "causal play" (though we'd all buy it anyway, tournament players or no).

If the issue with a damage deck update is tournaments, then the obvious solution for FFG, though potentially costly, is to include a supply of the updated deck in every tournament prize kit, in sufficient quantity to cover anticipated turnout, with extras to be distributed as possible. This would be even easier for them to do if they waited until the various Nationals events and distributed them to all participants. They could combine this update with a release pack that also includes the new deck, to make it available to any of the non-tournament players who want to switch.

The way I look at it, keep the ratio of 'broad, every ship affecting' and 'specific niche' crits the same as they currently are, but add effects to the niche pool that effect the more powerful upgrade slots in the game. Maybe make the one I have in mind as broad as munitions failure, have it take out an astromech or a crew member and call it injured passenger or something

+1

I've said in this type of thread before: I want equal opportunity destruction! That means passengers (crew, 'mechs) are no longer safe, but also the ratio should be maintained so lowly TIE Fighters don't start getting too uppity.

More [kabooms] = more fun!

They could get these printed and to us easily if they wanted. New backs, sell em for $5-7 like they do extra dice. Love the new "starter" pack idea...what ship is most S&V? Star Viper or Scyk?

I brought up awhile ago how many of the cards in the damage deck hurt different factions in different ways. I'd need to go back and look at it but the basic idea was that since Imps are unsheilded (vastly more so) and more likely to pull crits that the damage deck hurt them more (especially interceptors)... it was just an odd way where both faction strength (mobility) and weakness (less hp AND fewer if any shields) were over targeted while few cards disrupted combos and synergy (rebel strength) and rebel's other strength, sheilds and HP, cared less for all crits over all. It wasn't actually a huge difference after we had it all hashed out but it was there. It would be interesting to do it again with all 3 factions when we get full spoilers.

I'd love to see a new damage deck. Since printed there are so many more options and so many more to come, it'd be great to see them considered by one of the game's "core mechanics"

I was up for something like this 2-3 months ago, I still think it would be neat and could very well happen before a presumed 2nd edition of the game.

Bear in mind that the current "core" set only has rebels and imperials, they may design a 3-way core set sometime with one ship of each faction. Don't know if that's reason enough to do another "core" set, but whatever.

Now on to my main idea. What if we treated damage decks in a normal deck-builder fashion? You have a palette of possible crits, and you just need 33, with certain restrictions. Sure, it's hard to enforce this during a tournament, but I think it would be at least interesting. Consider actually building the deck for your opponent instead of your own, so he will draw from the deck you prepared for him and he will draw from yours. That way you put nastier ones but there's a degree of uncertainty because you don't know what your opponent will be flying.

edit: answer to OP - not yet, but fun to think about.

Building for your opponent is an interesting thought. Otherwise I'd take Determination on all my Elite Pilots and load up my deck with Pilot Crits.

It's kind of amusing to see the flip-flopping that goes around when this comes up. FFG puts some great new cards to bug fix the Advanced in a $100 kit, and it's all fine. Suggest that a new $10 damage deck is good for the game, and it's impossible because people would put their feet down and refuse to buy it. Ask about the design limitations of stat values that can't really go above 3-4, and the devs are beings of infinite wisdom who are able to keep it fresh for decades. New damage deck comes up, and they're suddenly a bunch of knuckle-dragging morons who couldn't possibly come up with anything more interesting than "This crit discards a Crew. This crit discards an Astromech. This crit discards a Sensor."

<shrug>

The spread of critical hit effects were never consistent, and the deck was honestly never good from a design standpoint because of it. The proliferation of new upgrade types and such has only made it worse with age. A newer, better damage deck would be a good thing for the game, and I'm sure they can come up with a distribution method that will lead to the usual insults and abuse from the community at anyone who dislikes having to buy it, so all will be normal and good.

Buhallin's disdain for the X-Wing community is super refreshing.

Also, I've said this before, but some of us at GenCon asked Frank/Alex about a new damage deck, and the reply was something along the lines of, "It's something that we've talked about, and it's something that we'd like to look into." I have full confidence that if they pursue it, it's going to be good. However, I suspect they are wrestling with a lot of the issues that have been raised in this thread.

If the issue with a damage deck update is tournaments, then the obvious solution for FFG, though potentially costly, is to include a supply of the updated deck in every tournament prize kit, in sufficient quantity to cover anticipated turnout, with extras to be distributed as possible. This would be even easier for them to do if they waited until the various Nationals events and distributed them to all participants. They could combine this update with a release pack that also includes the new deck, to make it available to any of the non-tournament players who want to switch.

So give it to the tourney players...but make the general public pay for it...that's fair. What do you do if there weren't enough new decks?

:shakes head: tourney people need to get over themselves.

I am aware you pay a nominal fee to join a tourney...but you are already getting prize support that, thankfully, doesn't affect the game. Why should you be simply handed something that would be integral to playing the complete game while everyone else should pay?

What makes a tourney player so much more important?

(note: this isn't directed at you specifically. I have seen this type of thread before and a self serving "tournament players pack" is always suggested..usually for free...grinds my gears it does)

This is a company that can print and distribute card packs six different ways before breakfast. If they want to do it, it'll happen.

Call it the 2015 Tournament Expansion Pack. Include a new damage deck with a distinctly different colored card backing. Done.

And if they want, they can throw in some other goodies. I'd love to see a few new pilots and upgrades, tokens for elite talents/droids/crew (like the third-party tokens), Range 1 and 2 rulers, maybe some new asteroids.

I like this "tournament pack" idea. This could also be a way for FFG to issue a "munitions fix", be it reprinted cards, longer ordnance range rulers, whatever. Lots they could do with this, and it could be considered a "Core Add-on" and not necessary for "causal play" (though we'd all buy it anyway, tournament players or no).

I don't think ordnance needs fixing, actually. Most of it isn't great in the standard 100 point dogfight, but most of it is viable in larger games. But that's another topic.

If the issue with a damage deck update is tournaments, then the obvious solution for FFG, though potentially costly, is to include a supply of the updated deck in every tournament prize kit, in sufficient quantity to cover anticipated turnout, with extras to be distributed as possible. This would be even easier for them to do if they waited until the various Nationals events and distributed them to all participants. They could combine this update with a release pack that also includes the new deck, to make it available to any of the non-tournament players who want to switch.

So give it to the tourney players...but make the general public pay for it...that's fair. What do you do if there weren't enough new decks?

:shakes head: tourney people need to get over themselves.

I am aware you pay a nominal fee to join a tourney...but you are already getting prize support that, thankfully, doesn't affect the game. Why should you be simply handed something that would be integral to playing the complete game while everyone else should pay?

What makes a tourney player so much more important?

(note: this isn't directed at you specifically. I have seen this type of thread before and a self serving "tournament players pack" is always suggested..usually for free...grinds my gears it does)

Note I did suggest the prize support packs include extras to hand out to non-tourney participants, and note also that updated damage decks would be necessary for playing in official tournaments only, and as such would be provided for any participants who needed them. They'd be required for tournament play of necessity (and, again, free to anyone who played in a tournament that required using them), but would otherwise be entirely optional.

This will happen at some point but it will either be tied to a 2nd edition core set release or campaign box with its own dedicated damage decks. We have already seem similar ideas for epic play.

If the issue with a damage deck update is tournaments, then the obvious solution for FFG, though potentially costly, is to include a supply of the updated deck in every tournament prize kit, in sufficient quantity to cover anticipated turnout, with extras to be distributed as possible. This would be even easier for them to do if they waited until the various Nationals events and distributed them to all participants. They could combine this update with a release pack that also includes the new deck, to make it available to any of the non-tournament players who want to switch.

So give it to the tourney players...but make the general public pay for it...that's fair. What do you do if there weren't enough new decks?

:shakes head: tourney people need to get over themselves.

I am aware you pay a nominal fee to join a tourney...but you are already getting prize support that, thankfully, doesn't affect the game. Why should you be simply handed something that would be integral to playing the complete game while everyone else should pay?

What makes a tourney player so much more important?

(note: this isn't directed at you specifically. I have seen this type of thread before and a self serving "tournament players pack" is always suggested..usually for free...grinds my gears it does)

Note I did suggest the prize support packs include extras to hand out to non-tourney participants, and note also that updated damage decks would be necessary for playing in official tournaments only, and as such would be provided for any participants who needed them. They'd be required for tournament play of necessity (and, again, free to anyone who played in a tournament that required using them), but would otherwise be entirely optional.

But what you are suggesting is updating a core part of the game. Why should the most up to date rules be available only to those who want to play competitively? I see what you are trying to say with giving extra ribose out to non tourney players...but how many would that be? What happens when you run out? Why are you putting the onus to supply these cards on the shop owner (yes they pay for these tourney packs)? Why should ffg pass up the chance to make some extra cash if they were to go through with this?

Again, what makes tourney players so special that they should simply be handed this while the rest of us can "choose" not to use the "optional" but more up to date rules if we weren't lucky enough to be in that tourney at that time. You are essentially suggesting they make an integral rules upgrade "collectable". You,may,not see it like that...but in reality that is want you are suggesting here.

If they were to go through with something like this it should be something they should sell...you don't want to pay...tough. Find a tourney not utilizing the new deck.

The moment in which you deal a Face-Up card, the opponent has a level of investment in the result.

If the crits were ALL equally terrifying, the flipping up of a Direct Hit wouldn't be as powerful an experience.

The problem with trying to update a damage deck is that for a tournament, everyone would have to buy it. That is contrary to what FFG has stated in the past. The only thing you have to buy, outside the given ships and upgrade cards you are using is the core set. Adding additional thing that every player has to buy would be seen as a money grab.

The only way to add core pieces to the game is to do a second edition game, where everyone has to upgrade to second edition to play. The game is way to young for this kind of change

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They could easily toss a new damage deck into a Aces-style expansion. Or maybe a pseudo-starter with three new small ships (one from each faction) and the new deck. That way you're getting something else new aside from a deck of cards.

No because then everyone will have to have one in their damage deck. Then what, have people "build" their own damage deck? Can you say no thank you to all those direct hits. Let me put in destroyed droid for my Imperial Squadron thank you very much. Or say if you want to make the droid damage card optional. Well then it is simple for squadrons that depend on droids will not use it and squadrons that do not have droids will use it to thin out the effects of critical damage.

For the same reasons that debris clouds are not allowed in tournaments is the same reason that simply adding damage cards are not allowed because damage decks are a universal asset. They are the same and available to all players. No mater what faction or ships are being played. Anyone who has a core has these universal assets.

This is a list of non-universal assets for standard.

• Ship Models (because X-wings and Tie Fighters are not in every game)
• Ship tiles
• Ship dials
• Pilot Cards
• Upgrade Cards
• Play Area (not a mat just a play area denoted by what ever you chose as a border)

Other than that everything else in the core set with the exception of the mission tokens (because they are not included in standard play) are universal assets. Universal assets can only be found in the core set because it is the default entry requirement into the game. Universal assets include

• Dice (both red and green)
• Movement Template Sets
• Range ruler
• damage deck
• asteroid token set
• satellite token set* (currently excluded from standard as mission tokens)

In order to change those universal assets you have to change the core set and that means reprinting it or for a better term change the core set. If you change the core set all of a sudden every one that has a collection now is invalidated for competitive standard play as they will not have the required universal assets necessary to play a standard game. In order to do that not only they would have to make a 2nd edition core set but a core update expansion for all those who already have the first core set.

Not to say that a 2nd edition core set is not within the foreseeable future. The game/hobby has gone through quite an evolution over the course of time. Since the core set these universal rules have been added (excluding wave 1 supplements and epic formats)

• Large Based Ships (and new action rules)
• Almost all the upgrade slots (excluding EPT, astromech, turret, torpedoes, and missiles from wave 1)
• Turret Primary weapons and auxiliary firing arcs
• Boost and cloaking actions
• Redefining the dice results
• An brand new playable faction
• An additional maneuver (that can be used with standard universal assets, no new templates were needed)

With all these changes you can see the possibility of the restructuring of the core sets but IMHO I still think that is some time away.

The moment in which you deal a Face-Up card, the opponent has a level of investment in the result.

If the crits were ALL equally terrifying, the flipping up of a Direct Hit wouldn't be as powerful an experience.

by that same token, All ships should have crits that are more terrifying to it than others. A cannon your main source of damage? Munitions Failure is one you don't wanna see. Arc Dodging for life, well I hope you don't mind losing your action bar. The way I see it, not all crits need to be scary for every ship, but every ship should have crits that they're scared of, and I can think of a couple builds that just don't need to worry about them (Chewbacca not included in that list)

Having cards like Munition failure and such is full of theme and flavor. Yes you do get cards the fail to hit the mark and as the game expans even more cards will no longer carry the same weight they once did. Adding a new damage deck would be a difficult thing to do for the reason of the tournament scene.

The simplest solution would be adding more catch all Crit cards. A damage card then when reviled the owner of the ship would have to discard one upgrade card of thier choice. This would get anything currently in the game and cover you for future growth. Although it would feel weird if a YT-1300 would lose the Millennium Falcon title as though mid way through a fight it cease to be that ship anymore.

I've had the odd thought about going back in time with a copy of everything from the core set through Wave 6 + Raider. And showing up at FF's doorstep when they're designing the game and being like "hey, let's rethink munitions and marksmanship. And while were at it, why do Dutch and Horton not have EPTs?"

That's when the Damage Deck gets fixed, too.

And ships with turreted primaries get 1 fewer die when attacking outside their arc.

Etc.

They should make Prequel ships.

They should make Prequel ships.

Hehe..you poop thrower.

Let's not start that war again eh?

Because it's so different than this one?

For the same reasons that debris clouds are not allowed in tournaments is the same reason that simply adding damage cards are not allowed because damage decks are a universal asset.

We don't actually know if debris clouds will or won't be allowed in tournaments. The tournament rules haven't been updated since their release, and until we get at least one update it's probably a bit premature to use their prohibition as a point of justification.

I don't see an issue with selling something new that's compulsory for a tournament. If you don't like it don't enter the tournament. Don't tournaments have entry fees anyway? So long as it's not too expensive (so I'd vote against including anything else with it) I say it's fine.

As for the problem of adding things to break new upgrades, such as incapacitating crew, diluting the danger of critical hits - it doesn't need to at all. Just add an appropriate number of general effect cards and keep the ratio the same.

Cannons are a very popular part of the game that get hosed by Munitions failure. Ever had your Outrider get hit by a Munitions failure? Might as well be 3 direct hits.

What does happen in that situation? Is the ship unable to make any attack for the rest of the game? I'm surprised they haven't FAQed that to say that you can discard the title.

I shuffled my deck too hard and worn it out, they need to sell a new one just so I can replace the old one.

You don't have it sleeved?!

Cannons are a very popular part of the game that get hosed by Munitions failure. Ever had your Outrider get hit by a Munitions failure? Might as well be 3 direct hits.

What does happen in that situation? Is the ship unable to make any attack for the rest of the game? I'm surprised they haven't FAQed that to say that you can discard the title.

The Outrider title only stops primary attacks while you have a cannon equipped. Cannon gets discarded, your primary works again.

As for the problem of adding things to break new upgrades, such as incapacitating crew, diluting the danger of critical hits - it doesn't need to at all. Just add an appropriate number of general effect cards and keep the ratio the same.

I think they can do better than this, even. The current ratio of meaningful vs. useless critical hits is one of the big problems with the current deck. Ideally (IMHO), any critical hit should have some effect on any ship they land on. This isn't all that hard to do. One easy way would be to have combo effects. "Discard your Elite Pilot Talent upgrades to turn this card face down. -4 Pilot Skill." If you've got an EPT, you lose it. If not, -4 PS. "Treat all white maneuvers as if they were red. Action: Discard one crew to turn this card face down."

Please don't get wrapped around the specific examples, they're off the cuff... but I think they'd be on the right track. Target a specific upgrade, but have a fallback effect if that upgrade isn't present. Have an ongoing negative which can be removed by discarding a particular upgrade type. Combo them with stats that every ship has. Suddenly, every crit is a big deal to every ship.

when it's an addition to the existing stack or a complete replacement for it, then you add either the complexity of having to check if people got the correct mix or you have to make it a mandatory sale for tournaments.

Both have pro and cons depending on your viewpoint

another option would be to add ship (or ship type) specific damage cards to new ships.

these could be tailored to fit better.

The rules could be changed so, that if you get a crit you have a choice to choose between the standard deck or your ship specific ones. That way you would keep the sale style of not required expansions and distribute these cards via new expansions with overlap similar to the upgrades. You could diversify the two choices by choosing a different balance between light (or even blank) and high damage consequences.