There are a handful of military grade gear items in Dangerous Covenants. They have fairly low rarity, however the fluff makes it pretty clear these items are military issue. They are not restricted.

How easily would you allow these items to be acquired? Low rarity and unrestricted makes them fairly easy to get mechanically, however being labeled as military issue makes me hesitant to say my PCs could fly into a space port and hit up the first shop they find.

I guess in the end it isn't worth making a big stink about it. Just curious if anyone had thought about this or tried to make an approach that makes sense.

If they were looking in the Outer Rim, Corporate Sector, Hutt Space or somewhere else where mercs, bounty hunters and private security forces are common then I wouldn't change anything.

In the Core Worlds though, a setback or two and interesting use of threat might be appropriate, or even making the item unavailable for sale on the open market. Just because it's not illegal to *own* within the Empire doesn't mean there aren't laws regulating who can sell machine guns on Coruscant.

Away from book atm, what items in particular are you thinking of?

What can be acquired and what can be openly carried should always be story driven imo. I would never sweat the ® on items, but look more to it as a potential plot hook, or at least sub plot in a game, getting the goods from 'Benny the gun guy' sort of opportunity.

Away from book atm, what items in particular are you thinking of?

The only one I can remember off hand (also away from book) is the military backpack, which I'm unsure what the exact name is. There are a few other gear items. No weapons or armor.

OK, looking through the gear in OggDude's generator (a player of mine is borrowing Dangerous Covenants), I believe the following are mentioned as strictly military issue in the fluff:

Canteen

Entrenching Tool

Field Rations

Military Belt Pouch

Military Medpac

Military Pack

This is based on memory though. Its nothing game breaking, I'm just curious how other people would interpret the fluff describing them as military issue (not military grade, but given out by the Imperial military).

Away from book atm, what items in particular are you thinking of?

The only one I can remember off hand (also away from book) is the military backpack, which I'm unsure what the exact name is. There are a few other gear items. No weapons or armor.

Ah, that's where I thought you were going with this.

Ok, "military issue" just means it's something that is, or is made to the same specifications as, the item that a Soldier is given to him by the military he is a member of, and doesn't have to buy himself. That's all.

So that can cover socks, boots, uniform components, backpacks, rain ponchos, mess kits, canteens and literally hundreds if not thousands of other quite mundane items.

Many militaries also allow Soldiers to buy these items themselves. So should a Soldier be assigned to say a hot arid location, he might wish to buy a second canteen. Or if he's going to a place that's wet, he might want to buy extra socks.

Furthermore there's lots of odds and ends that (provided they meet the specifications) Soldiers may wish to buy themselves anyway. "Issue" boots for example might not be as comfortable as something more higher end that are the same size, shape, and color, but are better designed and fitted. As long as on the outside they match the uniform requirements, who cares?

Soooo to answer your question, mundane items with valid civilian use or equivalents like boots, canteens, backpacks, entrenching tools and the like will (generally speaking) not be restricted. There's no need. Why put some legal restriction on a grey folding shovel when anyone can go down to the camping store and buy a green one that's nearly identical?

Exceptions to the rule might be if you had something like a planet where they were fighting an extensive and bloody war with an insurgency that would need those items (think central/south american communist rebels). In that case the local government might have tighter restrictions on things that would allow you to survive in the wild. Even then, the totally legal non-military issue "civilian" model of nearly all those items would have roughly the same cost, rarity, and stats, the only difference being they come in black, or red, or green instead of camo.

Also, an additional note:

It's also likely that you'll find some "civilian" are actually better then their military issue equivalent. Remeber that militaries are looking for something that will 1) Meet a need/requirement 2) Be cheap enough to buy in bulk, 3) Survive all the punishment a Soldier will submit it to.

So (and I'm totally pulling these numbers outta my butt for the sake of the example) if the "Imperial Issue" backpack gives you +6 Enc at the cost of gaining Cumbersome 4, a Civilian pack (with a Triumph on that negotiate check when shopping for it) might give you +6 Enc, but only a Cumbersome 3 because it's made of lighter materials that might not survive everything 5 billion Imperial Soldiers will do to it every single day, but it's more then tough enough to hold up to what several trillion civilians will submit it to every other weekend.

This also gives you nice options for threat and despair as well. Maybe on that same roll for the pack you get some threat... so the only colors to choose from are Yellow, Orange, and Neon Green with reflective strips. If you're just going on a backpacking trip having something high-viz is nice in case you get in trouble. If you're sneaking 40 miles through the jungle to launch a surprise attack on a secret military base... you probably want something a little more low-key...

Away from book atm, what items in particular are you thinking of?

The only one I can remember off hand (also away from book) is the military backpack, which I'm unsure what the exact name is. There are a few other gear items. No weapons or armor.

Ah, that's where I thought you were going with this.

Ok, "military issue" just means it's something that is, or is made to the same specifications as, the item that a Soldier is given to him by the military he is a member of, and doesn't have to buy himself. That's all.

So that can cover socks, boots, uniform components, backpacks, rain ponchos, mess kits, canteens and literally hundreds if not thousands of other quite mundane items.

Many militaries also allow Soldiers to buy these items themselves. So should a Soldier be assigned to say a hot arid location, he might wish to buy a second canteen. Or if he's going to a place that's wet, he might want to buy extra socks.

Furthermore there's lots of odds and ends that (provided they meet the specifications) Soldiers may wish to buy themselves anyway. "Issue" boots for example might not be as comfortable as something more higher end that are the same size, shape, and color, but are better designed and fitted. As long as on the outside they match the uniform requirements, who cares?

Soooo to answer your question, mundane items with valid civilian use or equivalents like boots, canteens, backpacks, entrenching tools and the like will (generally speaking) not be restricted. There's no need. Why put some legal restriction on a grey folding shovel when anyone can go down to the camping store and buy a green one that's nearly identical?

Exceptions to the rule might be if you had something like a planet where they were fighting an extensive and bloody war with an insurgency that would need those items (think central/south american communist rebels). In that case the local government might have tighter restrictions on things that would allow you to survive in the wild. Even then, the totally legal non-military issue "civilian" model of nearly all those items would have roughly the same cost, rarity, and stats, the only difference being they come in black, or red, or green instead of camo.

Yeah, I get all that. It just doesn't feel right to me because that isn't how the fluff describes them. That was what caused me to go, "hmmmmm..." It doesn't even imply these could be civilian variants. Their descriptions are worded in a way that explicitly says, "these are the exact items handed out by the Imperial military". Not these are like the items, these are the same quality as the items, or these are made by the same companies as the items, straight: this is what the Imperial military gives soldiers.

I know, I know. Its just fluff.

My players are currently operating out of a base on an essentially abandoned jungle planet with a nearby space station that they use for buying gear and some other things. I'll probably go the whole civilian equivalent route, though I don't think my players want anything because it is military issue, so it won't make a difference to them.

In a galaxy as large as SW, what makes you think there wouldn't be any Army Surplus stores? There's an entire niche industry in servicing "Weekend Warriors" who either want to relive the good old days or pretend that they are just as good as the "guys in grey". In RL, Molle, Alice and other types of personal equipment are ubiquitous. I would be very surprised if Clone-war era military surplus weren't available in abundance. Especially of the non-dangerous variety.

Away from book atm, what items in particular are you thinking of?

The only one I can remember off hand (also away from book) is the military backpack, which I'm unsure what the exact name is. There are a few other gear items. No weapons or armor.

Ah, that's where I thought you were going with this.

Ok, "military issue" just means it's something that is, or is made to the same specifications as, the item that a Soldier is given to him by the military he is a member of, and doesn't have to buy himself. That's all.

So that can cover socks, boots, uniform components, backpacks, rain ponchos, mess kits, canteens and literally hundreds if not thousands of other quite mundane items.

Many militaries also allow Soldiers to buy these items themselves. So should a Soldier be assigned to say a hot arid location, he might wish to buy a second canteen. Or if he's going to a place that's wet, he might want to buy extra socks.

Furthermore there's lots of odds and ends that (provided they meet the specifications) Soldiers may wish to buy themselves anyway. "Issue" boots for example might not be as comfortable as something more higher end that are the same size, shape, and color, but are better designed and fitted. As long as on the outside they match the uniform requirements, who cares?

Soooo to answer your question, mundane items with valid civilian use or equivalents like boots, canteens, backpacks, entrenching tools and the like will (generally speaking) not be restricted. There's no need. Why put some legal restriction on a grey folding shovel when anyone can go down to the camping store and buy a green one that's nearly identical?

Exceptions to the rule might be if you had something like a planet where they were fighting an extensive and bloody war with an insurgency that would need those items (think central/south american communist rebels). In that case the local government might have tighter restrictions on things that would allow you to survive in the wild. Even then, the totally legal non-military issue "civilian" model of nearly all those items would have roughly the same cost, rarity, and stats, the only difference being they come in black, or red, or green instead of camo.

Yeah, I get all that. It just doesn't feel right to me because that isn't how the fluff describes them. That was what caused me to go, "hmmmmm..." It doesn't even imply these could be civilian variants. Their descriptions are worded in a way that explicitly says, "these are the exact items handed out by the Imperial military". Not these are like the items, these are the same quality as the items, or these are made by the same companies as the items, straight: this is what the Imperial military gives soldiers.

I know, I know. Its just fluff.

My players are currently operating out of a base on an essentially abandoned jungle planet with a nearby space station that they use for buying gear and some other things. I'll probably go the whole civilian equivalent route, though I don't think my players want anything because it is military issue, so it won't make a difference to them.

Right, the stuff presented IS Imperial issue. I wasn't saying it wasn't.

What I'm saying is: Backpacks, Canteens, Freeze dried rations, Utility Belts, and the like are also available from any civilian manufacturer, so what's the point of regulating the sale of said items just because it's the version you issue to your troops? If the company that manufacturers "Imperial issue" canteens decides to make an extra 4 million on it's own dime and ship em to the outer rim for sale in the camping section of your local TaggeMart... so what?

Plus it's a great way to get rid of stuff since credits are cheaper to move. So if you've got trouble brewing the the Dingelhing sector, you'll ship a ton of materiel out there in preparation from blaster pack to thermal jockstraps. Then... the Rebels decide not to stand and fight, but instead pack up and run. Now you got millions of tons of thermal jockstraps sitting in a warehouse on the planet Punchgroinia with no cold weather war to use them in. If you ship em back to Ord Whatchahoozits to be put back into the strategic jockstrap reserve it'll cost millions in fuel, man hours, and ship expenses. If you dump em on the open market you'll actually recoop some of those taxpayer credits.

It's not like just because you've got a couple issue items you can impersonate an Imperial...

"I'm an ISB Agent! See? I've got both the official canteen AND folding shovel! That proves I'm totally an ISB Agent and not some homeless person who found these in the trash! Now go buy me some whiskey or I'll take you in on treason!"

Away from book atm, what items in particular are you thinking of?

The only one I can remember off hand (also away from book) is the military backpack, which I'm unsure what the exact name is. There are a few other gear items. No weapons or armor.

Ah, that's where I thought you were going with this.

Ok, "military issue" just means it's something that is, or is made to the same specifications as, the item that a Soldier is given to him by the military he is a member of, and doesn't have to buy himself. That's all.

So that can cover socks, boots, uniform components, backpacks, rain ponchos, mess kits, canteens and literally hundreds if not thousands of other quite mundane items.

Many militaries also allow Soldiers to buy these items themselves. So should a Soldier be assigned to say a hot arid location, he might wish to buy a second canteen. Or if he's going to a place that's wet, he might want to buy extra socks.

Furthermore there's lots of odds and ends that (provided they meet the specifications) Soldiers may wish to buy themselves anyway. "Issue" boots for example might not be as comfortable as something more higher end that are the same size, shape, and color, but are better designed and fitted. As long as on the outside they match the uniform requirements, who cares?

Soooo to answer your question, mundane items with valid civilian use or equivalents like boots, canteens, backpacks, entrenching tools and the like will (generally speaking) not be restricted. There's no need. Why put some legal restriction on a grey folding shovel when anyone can go down to the camping store and buy a green one that's nearly identical?

Exceptions to the rule might be if you had something like a planet where they were fighting an extensive and bloody war with an insurgency that would need those items (think central/south american communist rebels). In that case the local government might have tighter restrictions on things that would allow you to survive in the wild. Even then, the totally legal non-military issue "civilian" model of nearly all those items would have roughly the same cost, rarity, and stats, the only difference being they come in black, or red, or green instead of camo.

Yeah, I get all that. It just doesn't feel right to me because that isn't how the fluff describes them. That was what caused me to go, "hmmmmm..." It doesn't even imply these could be civilian variants. Their descriptions are worded in a way that explicitly says, "these are the exact items handed out by the Imperial military". Not these are like the items, these are the same quality as the items, or these are made by the same companies as the items, straight: this is what the Imperial military gives soldiers.

I know, I know. Its just fluff.

My players are currently operating out of a base on an essentially abandoned jungle planet with a nearby space station that they use for buying gear and some other things. I'll probably go the whole civilian equivalent route, though I don't think my players want anything because it is military issue, so it won't make a difference to them.

Right, the stuff presented IS Imperial issue. I wasn't saying it wasn't.

What I'm saying is: Backpacks, Canteens, Freeze dried rations, Utility Belts, and the like are also available from any civilian manufacturer, so what's the point of regulating the sale of said items just because it's the version you issue to your troops? If the company that manufacturers "Imperial issue" canteens decides to make an extra 4 million on it's own dime and ship em to the outer rim for sale in the camping section of your local TaggeMart... so what?

It's not like just because you've got a couple issue items you can impersonate an Imperial...

"I'm an ISB Agent! See? I've got both the official canteen AND folding shovel! That proves I'm totally an ISB Agent and not some homeless person who found these in the trash! Now go buy me some whiskey or I'll take you in on treason!"

It just makes me wonder why bother specifying they are military issue if there isn't really consequence for that. That was why I hesitated.

Thanks for the responses!

It tells the GM what kind of equipment their NPC imperial military people should have, at the very least.

If you're concerned that there ought to be consequences for having Imperial issue gear, there are easy ways to accomplish that. Modern Western culture and society doesn't mind people buying camo jackets and army surplus cots, canteens, etc. An oppressive Imperial bureaucracy might easily be less forgiving. Here's a couple justifications:

1. All Imperial issue items are on exclusive contracts. The companies that manufacture them are not allowed to sell surplus items or items with the same specs. Therefore, any military-grade items will be black market.

2. Impersonating a member of the Imperial military would be seriously bad. Local Imperial authorities, being bored, might charge someone with a surplus backpack for impersonation.

3. 1+2=3. If you have a piece of Imperial-issue gear it is clearly stolen and intended for unlawful use.

On the Core worlds these would be enforced strictly. In the Outer Rim, the distance from the nearest Imperial garrison might determine whether or not these are easily available. And they probably wouldn't be openly for sale, you'd have to ask for them even if you knew the vendor sold them readily.

I imagine a good chunk of "Merc" firms have an offical listence in order to carry millitry grade gear, and have been sactioned as such to act as priveteers. Thus why merc firms can generally legally afford to have such gear on their person's; because they been sanctioned to do so. The imperial navy can't be absolutely everywhere afterall, so Mercs might be called upon to patrol sections of space or preform opperations that the imperials otherwise couldn't/won't spare the manhours to do. For most part, I imagine this is the kind of gear that professional security firms/well off priates/crime groups would be packing and wouldn't be readibly avalible without the paper work or the correct channels.

E.g. People who either have this are a security firm, or are not meant to have it and will possibly be viewed as potential rebel agents, as those are the sort of folk that would pack that level of gear.

On that note; on the assumption that most parties are not legitmate merc firms;, I probably would say it would involve a black market of some description to get hold of such gear; or at least a certain climate where the weapons would be readiably avalible.

For most part though as with most things I imagine they would have to put a little legwork in finding the market either on the legal/illegal side of things. Though perhaps more interesting is the law's responce; though pocession may not result in a direct arrest, it will certainly draw an eyebrow or two.

Theres always gm disgression though. It really depends on the angle of the campiagn being attempted as to whether it's restricted status is a big thing.

Yeah, I get all that. It just doesn't feel right to me because that isn't how the fluff describes them. That was what caused me to go, "hmmmmm..." It doesn't even imply these could be civilian variants. Their descriptions are worded in a way that explicitly says, "these are the exact items handed out by the Imperial military". Not these are like the items, these are the same quality as the items, or these are made by the same companies as the items, straight: this is what the Imperial military gives soldiers.

I have several items in my basement which are the exact items handed out by the US military. I'm not a survivalist, just ex-military. What I have (duffel bags, gas mask, chemical suit, sleeping bags, backpacks, combat harness, canteens, helmet, entrenching tool, medical kit - pretty much the entire list above and more) mostly are still used by the US military and are all easily obtainable by civilians.

What I DON'T have is my M60 machinegun, M249 SAW, or M203 grenade launcher. Those would get the "R" rating and a large investigation if I had tried to slip away from military service with them. Those can't be purchased easily by civilians even in the US (possible, but needs an expensive permit). Before you argue the grenade launcher is easily obtainable due to them being called "flare guns", this was the rifled military version not the smooth bore obtainable in some gun shops.

In a modern game using the FFG system I would give the first paragraph items no R ratings. The second I would give R ratings. Similar to what we see in this Star Wars game. Actually somewhat more restricted then the Star Wars universe.

In a modern game using the FFG system I would give the first paragraph items no R ratings. The second I would give R ratings. Similar to what we see in this Star Wars game. Actually somewhat more restricted then the Star Wars universe.

Of course the R rating in FFG's games totally breaks down with vehicles. Why the hell are starfighters not R? Proton torpedoes and the launchers for them are R but starfighters mounting such ordnance are not R? A Mon Cal battleship isn't R? WTF???

If you're really concerned about it, just say that the gear in DC is like the Imperial issue stuff, and not the same