Wow I expected maybe one or two replies not a whole debate!!! But thank you all for helping me, just means I'll be ordering three of the MW packs now just to have all my dials covered.

That would be the safest bet. Personally, I'd like to see the Scum Z-95s and Y-wing available as separate expansions later on, but the Most Wanted pack is really good value for money when you look at what you get in it.

I personaly hate it

they need to sell / include / do something so i can use the ywing and z95s that come in most wanted in rebel lists

A rebel Z-95 blister comes with all the components to run a rebel Z-95 and MW comes with all the components to run two ScumZs. To, by FFG's model, make them compatible with Rebels they'd need to give you Rebel dials, rebel baseplates and rebel generics. They'd probably need another sheet of punchboard to do that.

It makes more sense of you think of Rebel and Scum Zs as different ships.

In the grand scheme of things it really doesnt matter to me, the local guys wont care, and my money for conventions goes to warmachine anyway. Just slight OCD of not having the "correct" tiles cards and dials slightly bothers me

If I want to fly a double-Firespray Scum list, I will:

1. Try to borrow that dial from a friend.

Failing that:

2. Ask the TO before the event (maybe with sad puppy dog eyes.

Failing that:

3. Fly a different list.

Wow I expected maybe one or two replies not a whole debate!!! But thank you all for helping me, just means I'll be ordering three of the MW packs now just to have all my dials covered.

Depending on what you are getting it for, just a note, that you won't be able to run more than 3 Firesprays in a Scum list (the cheapest is 35 pts). Three HWKs, even Scum, is not recomended. If you are looking at Epic, go for it.

As for the rest of it, I really, really, really would like people to stop making judgements on people just because they like to follow the rules.

Depending on what you are getting it for, just a note, that you won't be able to run more than 3 Firesprays in a Scum list (the cheapest is 35 pts).

You won't be able to run more than 2, if the cheapest is 35. 35*3=105.

This assumes, naturally, that you're using a 100-point limit.

For official tournaments and competitive matches you have to have matching dials. It sets it so that players have to invest and dedicate towards their faction instead of having blanket access to all ships.

However in casual games it should not be a problem. You don't always have to play in a competitive tournament setting. Also as I said before, I doubt FFG is going to send a TO representative to your house if you are playing a game at your own home using scum dials with rebel ships (or visa verse).

I wouldn't be surprised if after Most Wanted FFG get a lot of part requests for mysteriously damaged or absent dials.

For official tournaments and competitive matches you have to have matching dials. It sets it so that players have to invest and dedicate towards their faction instead of having blanket access to all ships.

I don't follow.

Not true. You can color you dials with magic markers if you choose to do so.

No you really can't. You can make a mark on your dial so you know it's your, but if you were to paint over the face of it, you are subject to the TO not letting you use that dial at all.Bottom line is, that regardless of why FFG made the rule, the rule is the rule. You are free to ignore it as you wish when you have the authority to do so. But any event you no longer have that authority and are subject to whatever the TO decides.

Could you find me the tournament rule paragraph where it says you can't paint the front and back of your dials. I am not doubting it is there but i can't find it at the moment.

If it's however not there then i can't see why you can't mix dials... As long as you have the correct cards and base chits...

It doesn't say you can't paint your dials, it says you can't modify them in such a way as to impair or alter their function. It advises you not to mark or paint the undersides as it would allow the opponent to deduce your maneuver based on the relative positions of your markings and the dial window.

It also says the TO has the final ruling on component eligibility.

As for the rest of it, I really, really, really would like people to stop making judgements on people just because they like to follow the rules.

It's only a rule for tournaments. Outside of tournaments, Alex Davy himself actually encouraged people to play around with house rules and change things around.

If it's however not there then i can't see why you can't mix dials... As long as you have the correct cards and base chits...

If the TO will allow it, you can. But for official events like Regionals and such, FFG has stated you do in fact need the correct faction dial. No amount of altering the dial is going to let you get away with having the wrong one.

There is no loophole which someone can abuse. It's all up to the TO, and in the case where FFG is the TO they have stated you need the correct faction dial. What other TO's will do will naturally vary.

If it's however not there then i can't see why you can't mix dials... As long as you have the correct cards and base chits...

If the TO will allow it, you can. But for official events like Regionals and such, FFG has stated you do in fact need the correct faction dial. No amount of altering the dial is going to let you get away with having the wrong one.

Except, of course, altering the cosmetics of the dial to the point where its original faction is undiscernible, which is permissible pursuant to the rules.

Except, of course, altering the cosmetics of the dial to the point where its original faction is undiscernible, which is permissible pursuant to the rules.

Only if the TO allows it. Which again, if the TO is going to be a stickler for such things, they will not. Because Faction is part of the function of the dial.

So if the TO doesn't care about the faction dial, there's no reason to do this, because you can use the wrong faction dial anyway.

If the TO does care, such as an event run by FFG. Doing so will mean your dial will not be accepted either way, and you'll have to provide one that is unmarked.

Sounds like there's a market for removable faction agnostic dial covers...

If it's however not there then i can't see why you can't mix dials... As long as you have the correct cards and base chits...

If the TO will allow it, you can. But for official events like Regionals and such, FFG has stated you do in fact need the correct faction dial. No amount of altering the dial is going to let you get away with having the wrong one.

Except, of course, altering the cosmetics of the dial to the point where its original faction is undiscernible, which is permissible pursuant to the rules.

I am not saying i would do this, but as long as the TO in question does not mind it i could play a Regional like that. Right?

Which leads me to the next question:

Can i mix up the Differently painted Z-95 from Scum and Rebels. That's something i could imagine doing. For instance i would take the Rebel ones for generics and the much cooler Black sun paint scheme for named "aces". Or i would differentiate 2 squadrons in Epic like that... Would that be officially allowed?

Can i mix up the Differently painted Z-95 from Scum and Rebels. That's something i could imagine doing. For instance i would take the Rebel ones for generics and the much cooler Black sun paint scheme for named "aces". Or i would differentiate 2 squadrons in Epic like that... Would that be officially allowed?

Yup, as long as they have the right pilot tiles.

Except, of course, altering the cosmetics of the dial to the point where its original faction is undiscernible, which is permissible pursuant to the rules.

Only if the TO allows it. Which again, if the TO is going to be a stickler for such things, they will not. Because Faction is part of the function of the dial.

With regard to your assertion that advertising faction choice being a "function" of the dial (I have been waiting for you to try that), it is pretty apparent that pilot cards and base templates more than adequately achieve that. Good luck not raising eyebrows and arbitrating the debate regarding whether Imperial players can only use the range ruler with the green side facing up.

And then i have older dials, that are a bit used from lots of gaming... Would that count as "modified"? Well i suppose TOs can literally refuse anything you bring to a tournament just because they dislike you then.

If i paint all my Z-95 dials completely black for instance, except of course the viewport

If you cover up the ships name then it's unlikely anyone would let you use it. Because now they can't even tell what ship the dial belongs to.

It's really a matter of better to be safe then sorry. Either the TO will let you use the wrong faction dial or they won't. If they won't there's no loop hole or other trick you can use to get away with it.

Can i mix up the Differently painted Z-95 from Scum and Rebels.

Sure they even said as much I believe, in fact you kinda have to be able to, or else the extra Y-Wing dial, cards, ect... would be rather worthless since you only get 1 Y-wing.

They can tell you that your 1 bank template cannot be used as well.

In theory a TO can make any ruling, but that doesn't mean the rules actually support it. Per the rules the TO's authority over components applies to Modified Components Only. Not sure what's so hard about this to understand.

But that's all completely irrelevant... You agree that the TO has the final say, so I'm no longer sure what your point even is.

With regard to your assertion that advertising faction choice being a "function" of the dial

That's FFG's ruling not mine, feel free to bring it up with them if you wish.

Would that count as "modified"?

I suppose it would depend on just how badly damaged they are. I mean if they were worn to the point you couldn't read the ship name on the dial anymore they might not allow them, but short of that I don't see how they could say much.

Except, of course, altering the cosmetics of the dial to the point where its original faction is undiscernible, which is permissible pursuant to the rules.

Only if the TO allows it. Which again, if the TO is going to be a stickler for such things, they will not. Because Faction is part of the function of the dial.

So what? The TO is obviously always the ultimate authority. They can tell you that your 1 bank template cannot be used as well.

With regard to your assertion that advertising faction choice being a "function" of the dial (I have been waiting for you to try that), it is pretty apparent that pilot cards and base templates more than adequately achieve that. Good luck not raising eyebrows and arbitrating the debate regarding whether Imperial players can only use the range ruler with the green side facing up.

Part of the function of the dial is that it displays the faction and model of ship that it matches whether you like it or not. Nowhere in the rules does it permit "altering the cosmetics of the dial to the point where its original faction is undiscernible". The rules only permit dial modification for identification purposes. If you want to make sure that your dials are legal and will be accepted, don't mark the face of the dial. Mark the backs, the pegs or the edges.

You've been arguing for pages about this. Your purpose for modifying the dial is clearly to be able to use the wrong part and not for identification purposes, that makes it an illegal dial. TOs that don't permit this aren't being arbitrary. The TOs that do permit this are doing so because they have made a decision to make an exception to FFGs rules. Feel free to spray paint your entire dial black, just don't start a thread here bitching about the **** TO that DQed you for not being able to produce a legal dial.

They can tell you that your 1 bank template cannot be used as well.

In theory a TO can make any ruling, but that doesn't mean the rules actually support it. Per the rules the TO's authority over components applies to Modified Components Only.

Show me where the rules limit the permission for me to modify my dials to exclude painting it green.

While you are at it, you can show me an official declaration by FFG sastating that showing faction choice is a function of the maneuver dials.

I am not the only person asking you to back up your conclusions.

When it comes to faction dials, there's effectively two kinds of TO's.

The TO who won't enforce the FFG rule about the correct faction dial.

The TO who will enforce the FFG rule about the correct faction dial.

It's really that simple, and binary. A TO either will or won't enforce the rule.

If you're playing in an event in which the TO doesn't enforce the rule, there is no reason at all to 'personalize' it to cover up the faction markings. Because the TO isn't going to say anything in the first place.

If you're playing in an event in which the TO does enforce the rule, there is no loophole you can use that will let you use the wrong faction dial. If you cover up the faction markings the TO will not let you use that dial either way. Because they can't tell what faction it is, so again there's nothing gained by doing this.

Even in the case of the TO who doesn't enforce the rule, they still may not allow you to use that dial. Because they can if they wish disallow any modified component if they so chose.

It's a lose lose, because you gain nothing, and may find yourself with a dial you can no longer use for either faction.

When it comes to faction dials, there's effectively two kinds of TO's.The TO who won't enforce the FFG rule about the correct faction dial.The TO who will enforce the FFG rule about the correct faction dial.It's really that simple, and binary. A TO either will or won't enforce the rule.If you're playing in an event in which the TO doesn't enforce the rule, there is no reason at all to 'personalize' it to cover up the faction markings. Because the TO isn't going to say anything in the first place.If you're playing in an event in which the TO does enforce the rule, there is no loophole you can use that will let you use the wrong faction dial. If you cover up the faction markings the TO will not let you use that dial either way. Because they can't tell what faction it is, so again there's nothing gained by doing this.Even in the case of the TO who doesn't enforce the rule, they still may not allow you to use that dial. Because they can if they wish disallow any modified component if they so chose.It's a lose lose, because you gain nothing, and may find yourself with a dial you can no longer use for either faction.

I think that pretty much says all that needs to be said here. Debating the fine points of the rules around it doesn't make much difference because a TO that disallows the dial isn't going to sit around and discuss it for ten minutes with you they've got other **** to do. Assuming that the inside of the Scum dial is printed with a different identifier than the Rebel or Imperial one is they could always just have you pop your dial apart to settle it.

We ask for evidence and you give only conclusions. We know what you think, no you have to show us why your conclusion is valid. Actual rules, as opposed to opinions, are at least necessary for some of your conclusions.