That is silly.

I see so since you can't actually refute anything you're going to throw strawmen out there... The rules are quite simple and clear. The TO has the final say on any kind of component modification. If you paint over the face of your dial, then the TO has every right to tell you, that you can't use it.You have no inherent right to mark up the dial however you wish, and expect it to be accepted at an event.You are expecting to be able to proxie things at a tournament, and the TO may or may not allow such a thing. I fail to see how this is a confusing statement.

I cannot imagine too many TO's throwing out DQ's for this reason any more than horizontal B-wings.

The difference is one is acceptable under the rules, the other isn't.

Did you not see that?

Edit:

We get that you googled straw man. However, the Wikipedia article that you read on it must have failed to directly state that just describing something as a straw man argument does not make it so. Feel free to start shouting ad hominem.

Did you not see that?

Wow, do you always have this much issue with basic reading comprehension? Yes they can do that, but it's also subject to the TO's approval, so if the TO won't accept it, then the player doesn't really have any real option there.

You bring in a dial that's been spraypainted over and the TO says they won't accept it, you can point to the rules all you want, they'll just point to the part that says they have the final say.

If a TO requires correct faction dials, no amount of 'personalizing' is going to change the fact that if the TO can't tell which faction the dial belongs to, he or she doesn't have to let you use it.

We have rules for using wrong dials (it doesn't matter as long as the ship has that manuever) but I bet if they did not mark which ship it is for then a TO should have a problem. As it will probably happen a lot and it is not reasonable to make your opponent police that mess.

As it will probably happen a lot and it is not reasonable to make your opponent police that mess.

Which is my point, I as a TO am not going to let someone use a dial that I think was altered with the intention of getting away with something. So someone covers up the name of the front of the dial I'm going to wonder why, and so would any TO I imagine.

Likewise if I'm going to require the correct faction dial, if I can't tell what faction it is, I am unlikely to let you use it.

If someone wants to paint designs on their dial or put a dot on it, or the like, sure no problem. But your 'right' to personalize your dial goes no further than what the TO is willing to accept. Because the TO has the final say over what alterations are allowed and what aren't.

That is silly.

I see so since you can't actually refute anything you're going to throw strawmen out there... The rules are quite simple and clear. The TO has the final say on any kind of component modification. If you paint over the face of your dial, then the TO has every right to tell you, that you can't use it.You have no inherent right to mark up the dial however you wish, and expect it to be accepted at an event.You are expecting to be able to proxie things at a tournament, and the TO may or may not allow such a thing. I fail to see how this is a confusing statement.

I cannot imagine too many TO's throwing out DQ's for this reason any more than horizontal B-wings.

The difference is one is acceptable under the rules, the other isn't.

I literally quoted the rules where they state that players can personalize their dials.

Did you not see that?

Edit:

We get that you googled straw man. However, the Wikipedia article that you read on it must have failed to directly state that just describing something as a straw man argument does not make it so. Feel free to start shouting ad hominem.

"Players may mark their tokens and their maneuver dials to indicate ownership as long as the function of the components is not compromised."

Any dial can be altered in a much more subtle way, singleing out people is crossing the line. If you are suspicious check the dial and move on.

Did you not see that?

Wow, do you always have this much issue with basic reading comprehension? Yes they can do that, but it's also subject to the TO's approval, so...

That is why what you are saying is a waste of energy. It is meaningless in this context.

If you are suspicious check the dial and move on.

Again that all depends on the degrees. As a TO half my job is to make sure the games go as smoothly as possible. If someone has done something, anything really that can interfere with that goal, it's my responsibility to deal with it the best way I can.

If someone does as I've seen suggested in other threads before, spray paint the front and back of the dials black, so you can't tell what ship, let alone what faction it belongs to. Those dials are going to cause nothing but problems and I'm not going to let them be used.

If on the other hand, you have a metallic green dot on the plastic snap part, no one is going to say a thing because the only impact that would have would be positive, making it that much easier to tell your dial from someone elses.

This is why the TO has the final say, so a real person can judge each case and decide what is going to cause a problem and what isn't.

Use of any component is subject to the GO's approval!

You really need to actually read the rules, because it's clear you don't know what you're talking about.

We agree on one thing, the dial needs to be labeled as to which ship it is for. There is no reason to step in otherwise until someone calls you over because of cheating.

We agree on one thing, the dial needs to be labeled as to which ship it is for.

We agree on that yes.

There is no reason to step in otherwise until someone calls you over because of cheating.

As a TO, if I see something I consider off or going to have a negative impact on the event, then I have not only the right, the reason and the responsibility to step in.

For example, as the TO, I should be checking every list people will play and make sure they're legal lists. I should be checking any modifications made to ships to make sure they're acceptable. I should be checking peoples damage deck to make sure they're correct.

I should make sure everyone understands the rules as they are for that event. I should also make sure people are playing by the rules.

I don't see how anyone can pull that off for any large group. Maybe you can spot check the people winning but i feel you are pushing your authority way to far on what is acceptable.

If you are holding a tournament at your store, yes you can do what you want. But if you negatively impact my fun I wont shop or play there.

edit: you obviously want to do that for the jerks of the world as they push people out of the game.

Use of any component is subject to the GO's approval!

You really need to actually read the rules, because it's clear you don't know what you're talking about.

Feel free to quote the rules in order to correct me - I will apologize if I am incorrect. Or don't, and just keep stating that you are correct like you have some divine right.

I vaguely remember someone contacting the devs about this a couple months ago and the response being that scum ships need to use scum dials.

Wish I could find it now though...

Feel free to quote the rules in order to correct me - I will apologize if I am incorrect.

I already have, but you ignored them then started shooting at the strawmen...

But just to make the point... In the Tournament rules under Component Modifications it says...

Players are welcome and encouraged to personalize their squads according to the following rules. The TO is the final authority on any component’s eligibility in the tournament. If a component is ruled ineligible and the player does not have a replacement for it, that player is disqualified from the tournament.

So right there it clearly states that all modifications to components are subject to the TO's approval.

It does not say that of all components, just modified ones. The TO can not tell someone they can't use an unaltered official component... any more then they could say that Howlrunner is not allowed. So all these strawmen you keep using, like "can bar the 1 turn" is just that, a strawman in every sense of the word.

The mere fact that I have to spell that out for you, speaks volumes about your understanding of the games rules.

I think the most important thing to take out of this is that all TOs are going to behave differently. If you think it might be a problem contact the TO beforehand.

Let's not make another back and forth thread about who is right when in reality it's going to a be a situational call made by the TO, your TO, not an hypothetical TO from the forums

trying to decide how many of the Scum Most wanted packs I'd like to pick up. If I have the Ship and Dial for the Firespray from the Empire can I use it instead of having to buy a second or third pack?

Nope.

At least that appears to be the official stance. The people who say you can proxie any cards you don't actually have will probably be ok with letting you use the wrong dial as well which is why many will say it is fine for casual play.

The tournament rules had sections in it covering dials although maybe they have been updated since I last read them. Those rules mentioned that if an "incorrect" dial is assigned to a ship you just look at the maneuver selected and if it is something the ship should be able to do you're fine but if it's not then your opponent gets to pick a maneuver that would have legal. Those rules also mention being able to mark up your dial which tells me they shouldn't all need to have uniform look.

Feel free to quote the rules in order to correct me - I will apologize if I am incorrect.

I already have, but you ignored them then started shooting at the strawmen...

But just to make the point... In the Tournament rules under Component Modifications it says...

Players are welcome and encouraged to personalize their squads according to the following rules. The TO is the final authority on any component’s eligibility in the tournament. If a component is ruled ineligible and the player does not have a replacement for it, that player is disqualified from the tournament.

So right there it clearly states that all modifications to components are subject to the TO's approval.

It does not say that of all components, just modified ones. The TO can not tell someone they can't use an unaltered official component... any more then they could say that Howlrunner is not allowed. So all these strawmen you keep using, like "can bar the 1 turn" is just that, a strawman in every sense of the word.

The mere fact that I have to spell that out for you, speaks volumes about your understanding of the games rules.

Players are welcome and encouraged to personalize their squads according to the following rules. The TO is the final authority on any ***MODIFIED*** component’s eligibility in the tournament. If a ***MODIFIED*** component is ruled ineligible and the player does not have a replacement for it, that player is disqualified from the tournament.

I fixed that so that it says what you want it to say.

The language is clear - the TO has final authority on ***ANY*** component's eligibility in the tournament. Which components? Any components. Which components are those? Any. Does that Include "any" component? Yes. Is an unmodified component a "component?" Yes. Does an unmodified component, as a "component," fall into the "any" category? Why yes it does. Does that give the TO the final authority with regard to the use of an unmodified component? Yes. Yes it absolutely and unambiguously does.

I fail to see what is creating your confusion here. Try going through the evidence and then making a conclusion instead of doing it the other way around.

Ok, everyone take a time out. We're getting a bit out of hand here.

The language is clear - the TO has final authority on ***ANY*** component's eligibility in the tournament.

I'm done. You clearly either lack even basic reading comprehension, or are simply a troll so I'm not going to bother any more.

Question has been asked and answered. No reason to bother discussing it any longer.

Feel free to throw your hands up and walk away. Or, since you are convinced that you are right, redefine the word "any" to give your argument a fighting chance at making sense. Up to you.

Just because the current cross faction ships have the same maneuvers on both of their dials ...

Do we have confirmation of that? The dials probably are identical. But can we tell for certain?

Officially stated in the previews. When you boil the game down to raw mechanics, all a ship name is is a dial reference.

Those rules also mention being able to mark up your dial which tells me they shouldn't all need to have uniform look.

The purpose of marking dials is so you can tell which are yours. Wouldn't you mark them all the same way?

The language is clear - the TO has final authority on ***ANY*** component's eligibility in the tournament. Which components? Any components. Which components are those? Any. Does that Include "any" component? Yes. Is an unmodified component a "component?" Yes. Does an unmodified component, as a "component," fall into the "any" category? Why yes it does. Does that give the TO the final authority with regard to the use of an unmodified component? Yes. Yes it absolutely and unambiguously does.

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here. Yes, the TO could rule someone's completely unaltered vanilla X-wings illegal components but why would they ever do that?

I personaly hate it

they need to sell / include / do something so i can use the ywing and z95s that come in most wanted in rebel lists

no in tourneys. yes at home if your friends aren't asses.

While that is the technical rule, as a TO, I won't uphold it. They are the same dials with a different color on the front and back.

I personaly hate it

they need to sell / include / do something so i can use the ywing and z95s that come in most wanted in rebel lists

A rebel Z-95 blister comes with all the components to run a rebel Z-95 and MW comes with all the components to run two ScumZs. To, by FFG's model, make them compatible with Rebels they'd need to give you Rebel dials, rebel baseplates and rebel generics. They'd probably need another sheet of punchboard to do that.

It makes more sense of you think of Rebel and Scum Zs as different ships.