With this being a snazzy, updated edition I have a question concerning crossover with other games.

Specifically, I am running a Rogue Trader campaign and I am considering allowing Dark Heresy 2nd Ed., characters in the game. However, in the Rogue Trader book, it recommends that DH players receive 5,000 exp to make them the equivalent to a Rogue Trader Rank 1. That in itself causes problems, making the DH characters slightly more powerful.

With the coming of DH 2nd Ed., are the characters on more equal footing with Rogue Trader characters? Is it necessary to "boost" DH 2nd Ed., characters?

I will probably have to post this over at Rogue Trader forums to cover more territory.

Father Gabe

Without going into the specifics, 5000 Experience gets drastically different mileage depending on which book you're using. In the "old-type" books of Dark Heresy 1, Rogue Trader, and Deathwatch, Talents and things tend to cost a flat 200 xp (or at least as I recall). The same (or equivalent) Talents in the "new-type" books of Black Crusade, Only War, and Dark Heresy 2 tend to cost at least twice as much (depending on Tier and Aptitudes). Even between Dark Heresy 1 and Rogue Trader, 5000 Experience in the former allows more customization/optimization than the static chargen packages of the latter. Porting characters from one game to another is a dicey business from Experience costs alone (both before and during play), without taking into account the (occasionally vast) power discrepancies.

To answer your inquiry (about Starting Experience) more directly, I would say DH2 characters should get a little more 5000 Experience, but I'd have to run the numbers and look at what exactly RT characters get.

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To answer your inquiry (about Starting Experience) more directly, I would say DH2 characters should get a little more 5000 Experience, but I'd have to run the numbers and look at what exactly RT characters get.

I've met DH1 and Rogue Trader crossover as a player once.

DH1 specialists were significantly stronger than RT characters because having more XP means access to the higher-level Talents and skill advances. When RT character dreams about +10 to the next skill, DH1 character had already forgot where he got +20 skill.

Almost the same issue will be in DH2 VS RT. DH2 characters can max out their high-focus skills and get the top Talents for their roles. They will be more competent in their specialities, they will have most of skills that they want to have on the "known" level. They can become more efficient in combat because of much quicker access to the small set of top Talents they will need to.

It seems that this will be mitigated somewhere at ranks 5-7, but on earlier stages RT chars can be discouraged.

PS: sorry for my english, it's not my native language.

Frankly while they say it can crossover, it really just can't. Not without a lot of fiddling, at least in what I've found, Even then you're never going to get the balance just right. I've ALWAYS found it much easier to just make an acolyte with the RT system and just say they're an acolyte or vice versa. The only time this doesn't work is DW, but that's really only a space marine game when it comes down to it.

I agree with the ThenDoctor, keep you players in one system. The gear is very easy to port across the systems and to some degree the NPCs as well since it doesn't really matter what system they run as long as they are fun.

If there is a particular ability from DH2 you want in RT or vice versa set it up as an elite advancement for the given system with an xp cost that makes sense. I had an astropath in DH1 campaign where we just switched the psyker systems and adjusted the xp cost. Worked rather fine.

Thinking that the solution might be to find a similar class and make adjustments.

Example: Battle Sister = Arch-Militant (?). Adjust equipment, starting skills/talents. Remove Arch-Militant special ability and replace with Battle Sister special ability?

Or

Example: Use Battle Sister archetype. Use RT character generation system (Origin Path, Ability Scores). Use Battle Sister Advancement scheme?

We are currently playing a crossover game in RT using DH2. The players make DH2 chars, but with 25 starting stats instead of 20. it worked well for us. maybe add 1-2k xps for the skills, thats it.

I can see that BrotherNefarius. I just made 2 sets of 2 characters, 2 for each system. The biggest issues I see for DH2 characters is lower statistics, fewer starting skills/talents.

Rogue Trader Characters Skills/Talents: 11/8 and 14/8

Dark Heresy 2 Characters Skills/Talents: 8/6 and 8/7

That is with exp points spent + Origin Path (or DH2's path). Beyond the skill/talent issue, bumping up the attributes to 25 is no problem. The issue is a balance to bring DH2 characters up to par with RT characters in the skill/talent area. 5,000 xp is way to much. I have read a possible solution is at character creation to use the 5k exp but double cost of everything...then I read BrotherNefarius, and it makes sense a bit, to give between 1k-2k extra and leave it at that. Essentially a DH2 character with 2,000 exp to start and +25 to attributes to start "Should" bring characters up to speed.

Thoughts?

The double up for RT vs DH1 worked OK for mixing RT and DH1, but I am not sure you can use that convention for DH2.

I haven't seen anyone calculate progression rate between the two systems, but I would actually think that the two systems are a bit more on par than RT and DH1 was, since DH2 is noticeable more expensive to progress in compared to DH1. The freedom of choice in DH2 compared to the rank system in RT does complicate it though.

The 5000 xp for RT kinda "includes" that they start with +25, so I think that you can do as you suggest with 2000 xp and +25 for DH2, or maybe test what 5000 xp and +20 will give.

Appreciate the responses. This all could be irrelevant if the players stick with Rogue Trader archetypes. I know I am the final arbitrator on what is and what is not allowed, I just like giving lots of options for the players. I don't like to fiddle with existing archetypes (even if I can, rules say I can, etc.).

The power level is about comparable, really. DH2 is little more than "build your own archtype" with, at that, somewhat increased XP costs. Make sure everyone rolls on the same base stat boni (+20 or +25 for humies) and you should be fine. DH2 chars, in the long run, will be weaker, though, because of their endgame cost inflation. But one might consider that the price for perceived freedom.

But one might consider that the price for perceived freedom.

More freedom than before. I don't expect you to change your fanatical stance here however, so whatever.

Can we not open that can of worms here? Just let it go.

Thought I posted last night on this topic, stupid computer.

I am making a number of characters from both DH2 and RT using their standard character generation and comparing a side by side of the two. I will come up with a way to post the results once I am done creating each of the Archetypes (RT) and their DH2 equivalent.

So far my earlier posted results are off. The characters are starting to even out attribute, skill, talent wise. Gear will be different and easily remedied, so I am not worried about that tidbit. I am using the same generated attributes for each character, only difference is the Origin Path and Background Path for each system.

I noticed that DH2 doesnt care about Literacy / Speak skills, that is currently a default area I will have to look at and adjust fire for.

If you want them to be equivalent costwise, and there's no direct translation, you could do one of the following:

-Use RT's set costs. These are, however, archtype dependant, and basically requires the players or yourself to select an "equivalent".

-Alternatively grab the appropriate catch-all knowledge skill in DH2 and use its attributes for all the literacy stuff.

The Speak/Literacy skill thing is not really an issue, I've already got a half-ass method of resolving that. Part of the reason I am doing the side by side comparison is because I am thoroughly bored waiting for classes to start later this week, I dont mind doing mental exercises like this and seeing the negative/positive posts that provide all sorts of biased/factual info grates on my nerves a bit. Plus, this gives me lots of NPC's to use against the players