Hey guys,

So the spoiler of the Aggressor has sparked lots of excitement and conversation (some complaining ) and got me thinking a lot about it, particularly about just IG-2000B with advanced sensors and a cannon. Thing is, I found I had absolutely no idea what I would want to accompany it and what would be optimal to emphasize its strengths.

Ever since Wave 5, squadrons seem to have to content with two very pronounced threats: Phantoms and Fatties. It's been like this for a while now, to the point where I no longer see ships as themselves and instead view them as tools with which to check either of these two prominent ships. If I brought Jakes, it would be to have something that could keep up with a phantom and shove rockets down its through. If I brought tons of B-wings, it would be to out-roll a fattie. etc

Because of Wave 5 and the stark dichotomy, my ships roles seem to be strictly determined by what they can hope to do well against. Thing is, the Aggressor is both new and untested, and I am having a hard determining which of the two ships it can handle and therefore which other counters I would add as its wingmen.

And so, I'm opening this strangeness to conversation.

Can a ship's role really be primarily determined by phantoms and turrets? If not, what would we base it on?

If you were given a lone Aggressor, what would you send to accompany it?

IG88-A is Prince Xisor's preferred companion, as the only Scum that can regenerate.

IG88-B's re-rolls are such a threat that Serisseu or a Bodyguard would be needed to keep it alive.

IG88-C and D concentrate on mobility, so I'd pair them with ships that can more easily take out Turrets. A Z-95 Swarm, for instance.

I think the Aggressor is natively an anti-Fatty ship. Autothrusters, AGI3, and an Evade action mean you can just tank those ships. HLCs mean you can punch through 3PO/Evade actions. Great mobility means you can tail them, so it's easier to keep boosting Fatties in arc. I don't see any inherent advantages against Phantoms other than providing an unpredictable HLC zone each turn. That's not nothing, but it's not enough on it's own.

IG88-A is Prince Xisor's preferred companion, as the only Scum that can regenerate.

IG88-B's re-rolls are such a threat that Serisseu or a Bodyguard would be needed to keep it alive.

IG88-C and D concentrate on mobility, so I'd pair them with ships that can more easily take out Turrets. A Z-95 Swarm, for instance.

I have been thinking about the Zs as well, but I am no longer as certain about them as I was some months ago

The thing I found running Dash and four Zs is that the Zs take up a surprising amount of real estate, and that negatively affected Dash's ability to derp around the table. Worse still, the Zs were not able to stand up to turret fire and could not drop it fast enough (had much greater success with the more maneuverable Ties packing the evade action) but that could be my luck (never forgetting the time I brought Jake and four Blues into range 2 of a Space Fringer and it walked out with 2 damage).

I'm liking the Serisseu angle, though. Interceptors in general have me pretty excited as the cheapest cannon bearing ships (that also sport 3 agility). Hopefully, they'll also be maneuverable enough to make way/keep up with the Aggressor.

I think the Aggressor is natively an anti-Fatty ship. Autothrusters, AGI3, and an Evade action mean you can just tank those ships. HLCs mean you can punch through 3PO/Evade actions. Great mobility means you can tail them, so it's easier to keep boosting Fatties in arc. I don't see any inherent advantages against Phantoms other than providing an unpredictable HLC zone each turn. That's not nothing, but it's not enough on it's own.

Good points. The lower PS and single arc do make the Aggressor seem weak to Whisper, even if said arc is wider thanks to the base.

Problem now is what to take to correct that. Scum has several checks/counters, but they're on very slow ships (Mux on the HWK, Kavil on the Y) and while I have plenty of experience with a small swift ship covering for a mini-swarm or a large ship, I don't believe the large base is going to make it easy to replicate with the Aggressor.

I've been trying to articulate something for a bit, and I'm not sure I quite have it yet, so bear with me.

When list building, it's important to think about what kinds of threats you will face, and what the most potent form of each of those threats looks like, and what tools your list has to counter them.

Right now, the potent archetypes are tank, and glass cannon, with swarms being another solid choice.

So if I'm building a competitive list, I need tools to deal with the Phantom, with Fat Han, and with a Tie Swarm. A list with good anti-Fat Han tools can also handle Decimators and AC Vader. And good anti-Phantom tools should be usable against donut-Dash, Soontir Fel, ATC Vader, etc.

Weirdly enough, none of those tools are great against Tie Swarms- and none of the predominant lists are great against Tie Swarms.

So in my mind, it's less about needing to deal with those specific ships, and more about dealing with extremities.

What do I want to escort a lone Aggressor? I'm thinking a swarm of Sycks- with VI Serissu on anti- Phantom duty.

Given that the age of phantoms is well and truly over for the store/regionals season, I dont see what the issue is with the IG. It's a boost native ship. The C variant gives you free evades. Factor in PtL, if Iggy is getting shot down it's not the ship that failed there.

Ships don't need roles or purposes. Why does everyone have the need to make sure everything fits into a neat little box that cleanly describes and delineates it from other ships?

A lone IG-88? Why not a 2nd? I just can't stop thinking of the synergy they would give each other.

OK.....if I had to do a lone one.....maybe a Y-wing to ionize things? Then throw in some Scyks. I'd rather have them than Z-95's as they would be more agile to get out of the way of where you need Iggy to go.

Ships don't need roles or purposes. Why does everyone have the need to make sure everything fits into a neat little box that cleanly describes and delineates it from other ships.

Not much point to having two distinct ships if they do the same thing, is there?

Ships don't need roles or purposes. Why does everyone have the need to make sure everything fits into a neat little box that cleanly describes and delineates it from other ships.

Because it helps make sense of the more complex reality.

That said, I don't think 'glass cannon' is a role, it's a description. A role is about what a ship does within the environment. A glass cannon seems like it would best fill the role of flanker.

The problem with the role of flanker in this Wave 5 meta is that there isn't all that much of a flank, except when it comes to the turret ship's supports. That's why we've seen Phantoms and Interceptors taking a bit of a back seat. I can't speak to the world's meta, but in my local scene the Wave 5 turrets are really popular - especially the YT-2400. A part of that, of course, is novelty.

Back to the need for categorization; there's no way you can anticipate each and every permutation that an opponent may put into his build. All you can do is have broad ideas. A big fat turret ship with a few low-point escorts seems to be a type of build that is very commonplace. That's a general idea you can build around and think about tactics against. It's useful.

Ships don't need roles or purposes. Why does everyone have the need to make sure everything fits into a neat little box that cleanly describes and delineates it from other ships.

Well, the scope of the game is a tight, small unit dog fighting game to be consumed in bite sized (compared to other games) amounts.

If this were primarily a collectibles game or a Star Wars simulator, sure, I'd say you were right. I firmly disagree with your statement regarding the game in it's current state, however.

Ships don't need roles or purposes. Why does everyone have the need to make sure everything fits into a neat little box that cleanly describes and delineates it from other ships.

If two ships are so similar as to be effectively redundant then chances are one outclasses the other. That means the new design is either power creep or obsolete on release. That's why ships need to be different.

That and different is fun. The IG-2000 is a new beast. A,say, 3/3/2/1 TIE avenger with an interceptor dial is just a better (or worse, dependent on point cost) TIE interceptor.