One tactic, although cheesy, could be an ig2000 fortress using advanced sensors, ptl and the green 1-banks to bump 2 ig2000s off one another, and still have good action economy. Could be a handy counter to phantom lists. It is certainly something defenders can't do.

But then you're not playing the game, you are abusing a loophole. That, for me, would be reason enough to pack up.

One tactic, although cheesy, could be an ig2000 fortress using advanced sensors, ptl and the green 1-banks to bump 2 ig2000s off one another, and still have good action economy. Could be a handy counter to phantom lists. It is certainly something defenders can't do.

But then you're not playing the game, you are abusing a loophole. That, for me, would be reason enough to pack up.

I wouldn't exactly blame you (it IS pretty cheeky). But there are definitely ways to work against an IG fort. It only has front arcs, and only 2 attacks to do damage with. It would probably be outgunned by most lists, and is vulnerable to control, both ion and stress. I expect it would only be used against nasty phantom lists.

Oh, it could be taken down, but why play against someone who doesn't want to, who just wants to roll dice? Might as well play Yahtzee.

Sure it won't fly like a Lambda, but it still turns like a bus.

Oh, it could be taken down, but why play against someone who doesn't want to, who just wants to roll dice? Might as well play Yahtzee.

my thoughts about every primary turreted ship ever

My hope for superior cannons with S&V didn't happen so the defender is still in the "overcosted" bin for me. Not by a lot though, no more than an xwing is (so, ya know, like 1 point). Combined with subpar missiles, it's expensive to make a good defender. Now the named pilots are solid and probably both coming into their own with more TL's and more crit hurting ships around.

IGGy will be fun and dynamic...it's going to be a real "dogfighter shuttle" for about the same cost. If you've ever played against a well piloted buzzsaw or dogfighter shuttle then you know how potent this can be. Now it has 3AG and can kturn AND LOOP and PS 6. That's a pretty big upgrade (even though those ships really shouldn't be compared).

It's a big ship with no turret and a great dial. A GREAT DIAL. It's going to be different than anything else out there. I'm seeing zoom and boom the way we wanted the defender to play. It's just bigger and it is better in a lot of ways.

One tactic, although cheesy, could be an ig2000 fortress using advanced sensors, ptl and the green 1-banks to bump 2 ig2000s off one another, and still have good action economy. Could be a handy counter to phantom lists. It is certainly something defenders can't do.

Naw. You'd have a massive hole on either side of the fortress where the IG-88s simply couldn't fire. You'd basically be putting a bullseye on them and handing over 36-72 points.

Every time I see fortress on these forums my blood pressure goes up, it's completely against the spirit of the game.

I don't know anyone that uses EU on the defender it really does not need it, it's not a super interceptor and people trying to fly it like it is are just using it wrong

I can see where you're coming from, but I think you're wrong. The Boost action is incredibly useful for turning a ship's facing in response to where your target has ended up. In many ways, it's Stay On Target as a modification instead of an EPT.

Every time I see fortress on these forums my blood pressure goes up, it's completely against the spirit of the game.

And also pretty ineffective. But, I would rather not start this war again.

Every time I see fortress on these forums my blood pressure goes up, it's completely against the spirit of the game.

And also pretty ineffective. But, I would rather not start this war again.

Do it do it do it!

Count me in this as well. I never saw a super interceptor pitch. Some one made a very eloquent post a few weeks back about how the defender couldn't be exactly what it was in tie fighter...it would break the game. I agree with that...and the defender is my all time favorite SW ship of all time. Making it the "super interceptor" so many Want it to be will leave the regular interceptor without a point...and then we will get "ideas" to "fix the tie interceptor" again.

I'm not missing out on a ship I jam into every list. My first post says as much how I've owned and run one for as long as I've played the game.

Then maybe you need to continue and modify how you fly it till you get it to work the way you want it to...

So many of the "fixes" I see want to trim this into a shielded interceptor...which it isn't designed, in this game anyway, to be...

While I think this ship would be more fitting for a "fix" than the xwing everyone has been cavitching about lately I still don't feel one is super warranted...people need to adjust their thinking...

That my favorite part of every "fix the defender thread". They should really just be "I want the Defender to be more like an Interceptor" threads.

There's a serious mindest problem people have with the defender, and i think it mostly comes with many being familar with the video games. There, the Defender is the best at literally everything. Shields, Weapons, Speed, Manueverability, it was the top of every tier. The one thing i think it was weak on was hull strength compare to say a Y wing or B wing. Even worse was its power resources. I fondly remember rerouting spare laser energy into my engines to allow me to outrun torpedoes even. If FFG were to take that exact same "wonderfighter" and put it on the tabletop, it'd be horrendous. It would first of all make the Interceptor obsolete, since its a direct upgrade in every single respect. So FFG made something different. I don't think they exactly got it right, but they did NOT make the Defender from the video game, and the "fixer uppers" need to recognize this. It will never be that starfighter from the video game.

That being said, the defender dial does pose some problems. It relies a lot on straight forward movement, having all of the straights but the 1, and all of the banks. This gives it some problems turning around to face foes. Ah! but we have the unique(currently) 4 Kturn. Unfortunately, it is a VERY predictable K-turn, and i've seen quite a few blocked by ships a 3rd or less of the Defender's point cost, leaving them out of position and shortly dead. You could argue that the defender is supposed to be a "Boom and zoom" fighter making a pass and then using a 5 straights or hard 3's and BR's to get out and then get turned around, but the nature of dice in this game doesn't favor such tactics. That would rely on a turn or two not firing back, and the lack of evade particularly hurts the defender in this respect.

In fact the more i think about ti, the more i feel that was what the defender was supposed to do. The manuevers hardest on a pilot in terms of Gforce would be the Hard 1's and 2's. K turn as well for most ships but the defender is "special", and gets that as a white to make up for it i guess. That would reflect the Defender using its High speed to blast through the engagement zone, then turn around and make another pass.

As far as an actual "fix" or modification, what would you think if the Defender had Boost instead of BR and added Evade as an action for the same point cost? Would that be more attractive to people?

You talking about this one?

The main problem i see with the Defender Dial i see is that it has no green banks. If it had green one or two banks it would make a world of difference.

That's because your named Pilots would love to use PTL for double actions, especially Rexler! You have Predator or VI in most cases, but on such expensive ships, double actions would be great. But because you just can't get rid of the stress because it means going straight, you don't see PTL on Defenders a lot.

You can exploit this really hard when flying Phantom or Interceptor versus Defender. Phantom decloaks to a side and hard turns. Now the Defender is in a dilemma, he either keeps stress or just goes straight which means getting arc-dodged. The interceptor can do the same with a combination of bank, barrel roll and boost...

Iggy can pretty much do the same, especially D version, when flying against a defender going sideways is great, but also facing towards it is golden. This even negates Brath having better pilot skill partially.

That's the one potter.

That was a good post.

I still even before the IG88 ship came out, thought it should have 3 green banks. It makes sense, from the fluff as well as all the pilots having an EPT.

That's the one potter.

That was a good post.

Oh stop it you! -blushes furiously-