Well, the simultaneous rules should not apply as the card has a explicit cause then effect syntax, that is not in the simultaneous rule.

Gunner happens independently of cause and effect to, so you always can take gunner simply after you perform an attack with the shuttle. This of course is a prereq. to vader and gunner. However, the Vader wording is not 'instantaneous' as gunner but requires a cause and effect time component- one thing must happen before the other.

The point is that both cases give examples of longer windows than just in Vader's ability, and the ship removal (and end game check) wait for them to complete. It doesn't matter why the order is what it is, it being a cause/effect syntax (which has no explicit meaning in X-wing anyway, as near as we can tell) may affect the order, but it doesn't change how the effects resolve. Or to look at it another way, it doesn't matter if things must happen in a given order, just that they do.

Good question. I guess I'd probably go with this.

When dealing damage cards, you deal all damage card before checking if a ship is destroyed. A ship with one damage remaining that suffers two damage receives both damage cards before destruction. You do not check for destruction after each damage card. (FAQ)

With Vader, I'd do the same. Deal all three damage cards before checking for destruction. That results in simultaneous destruction. Initiative wins.

In an elimination round, the player with init wins. In a swiss round, it goes down as a draw.

However elimination rule seems to place too much weight on who chose initiative, (I guess it could be decided upon points destroyed.)

If it wasn't determined by initiative and you had to have a winner, I guess I would go with point value. Who ever destroyed the most points won (so basically who ever had the smallest squadron point value)

I guess you could try to justify chronological order of the card as you suffer 2 damage first (destroy your ship) then do the damage but if that was you last ship I guess I would call it game. The defeated will still get the point credits for destroying the entire ship because everyone knows Vader still triggers even if he destroyed his own ship.

i feel like everyone is overlooking another detail (so it's probably me who is missing something):

That's an interesting twist on it. The fact that Vader's ship is destroyed too might become somewhat secondary. The other player didn't destroy it.

That's my take, I was surprised nobody else mentioned it in a page and a half...

It seems mutually assured destruction CAN have a winner.

It doesn't matter if you your opponent or an asteroid deal the damage. It all counts the same.

It doesn't matter if you your opponent or an asteroid deal the damage. It all counts the same.

So who wins? If both ships are destroyed and a draw isn't an option, and there must be a winner, which one is the winner? Vader or the ship he just destroyed?

An asteroid wouldn't come into this equation at all, as it's not capable of destroying both ships at the same time. And warrior bungalow has come up with probably the most logical solution I've seen so far.

It doesn't matter if you your opponent or an asteroid deal the damage. It all counts the same.

So who wins? If both ships are destroyed and a draw isn't an option, and there must be a winner, which one is the winner? Vader or the ship he just destroyed?

An asteroid wouldn't come into this equation at all, as it's not capable of destroying both ships at the same time. And warrior bungalow has come up with probably the most logical solution I've seen so far.

The draw is never "not an option", and in this case is exactly what would happen. Both players have lost all of their ships; according to the rules that is a draw. The only catch is if you're playing elimination, in which case the player with initiative progresses.

Yeah, I figured that, and I was thinking 'elimination play'.

As per the rules the player with intiative. I feel that is very clear in the rules.

That an asteroid can't destroy ships simultaneously is irrelevant. By your line of thought the second that a ship is destroyed by anything that isn't the opponents action they can't win the game as they never can qualify as having destroyed all of their opponents ships.

At least per the tournament rules, there's no distinction on who destroyed a ship. It checks only that all of a player's ships have been destroyed.

Each tournament match ends in one of the following three ways:
• All of one player’s ships are destroyed (respecting the Simultaneous
Attack Rule, Rules of Play, Page 16). The player with at least one ship
remaining immediately earns a Match Win, and the opposing player
receives a Match Loss. If neither player has any remaining ships, the
game ends in a Draw.