IG-2000 Title - Does it work when you've lost a ship?

By WWHSD, in X-Wing Rules Questions

This was my first thought as well, but looking at the text again I don't think so:

You have the pilot ability of each other friendly ship with the IG-2000 Upgrade card (in addition to your own pilot ability).

The title gives you additional pilot abilities, so anything that removes pilot abilities would hit those as well.

Yeah, upon rereading the title it definitely looks like they are still considered pilot abilities. "You have the pilot abilities...." Not "you may use the pilot abilities...." Really makes it sound like the crit will kill all abilities for the damaged ship, and the one ability for any others in the squad.

If it's a continuous ability, then if -A loses his ability, he loses both of them (because IG-2000 gives him an extra one), and -B loses -A's because there's nothing there to copy.

If you think it might work differently, even just for the sake of argument - then please offer the "why" as well, and not just the possibility of a random result.

I don't think it works differently, but just musing on the possibilities...

Is it possible that the other abilities don't count as pilot abilities but rather abilities being granted by the title upgrade? So in a list with 2 IG-2000s, each one would have one pilot ability and one ability granted by a title that copies the other pilot ability but is not itself a pilot ability.

This was my first thought as well, but looking at the text again I don't think so:

You have the pilot ability of each other friendly ship with the IG-2000 Upgrade card (in addition to your own pilot ability).

The title gives you additional pilot abilities, so anything that removes pilot abilities would hit those as well.

Although the more I look at it, the less sure I am on this one. I'm very confident that if A loses his ability, then B loses his copy of A. But I'm not entirely sure that A loses B... Even though it's a gained pilot ability, Injured Pilot says "Players must ignore your pilot ability" (emphasis mine)... and the title does make a distinction between yours and the other gained ones via the parenthetical. So is an ability gained via the title considered "Yours"? I think it has to be, and would play it as such until/unless we get a ruling otherwise. I wouldn't go to the mat for this one at this point, though.

So after all that... maybe? :(

No more argument needed from me, you got there all by yourself. I do believe if one is destroyed the other will be left with it's own ability but the damage card needs to be explained. More then one logic can be applied and sound reasonably correct.

Meh. I honestly still think it would go away. If the ability is "yours" enough for a "you" in the ability to apply to the ship inheriting it, then it's "yours" enough to be affected by the Injured Pilot. You're right that at least one other option can "sound reasonably correct" but that doesn't mean it is.

It also says "You have the pilot ability of..." If you have a pilot ability, is it not your ability?

<shrug> Like I said, I wouldn't bet a lifetime ban from the rule forum on it, but I'm swinging back to thinking it's pretty solidly in the "Lose them all" result.

No more argument needed from me, you got there all by yourself. I do believe if one is destroyed the other will be left with it's own ability but the damage card needs to be explained. More then one logic can be applied and sound reasonably correct.

Meh. I honestly still think it would go away. If the ability is "yours" enough for a "you" in the ability to apply to the ship inheriting it, then it's "yours" enough to be affected by the Injured Pilot. You're right that at least one other option can "sound reasonably correct" but that doesn't mean it is.

It also says "You have the pilot ability of..." If you have a pilot ability, is it not your ability?

<shrug> Like I said, I wouldn't bet a lifetime ban from the rule forum on it, but I'm swinging back to thinking it's pretty solidly in the "Lose them all" result.

I do agree I think the ability goes away as well but enough of a gray area to cover with an FAQ to clear it up.

I really think you'd lose both. The title specifies " You have..." which would make it yours, thus falling under the "ignore your" portion of the crit. The paired ship would still have its native ability, but not the one granted via its copy of the title.

Look at the wording on the ST-321 title:

"When acquiring a target lock, you may lock onto any enemy ship in the play area."

If a ship ceases to be either a friendly or enemy ship upon destruction, why did they include " in the play area"?

I think this means that if your shuttle doesn't have the ST-321 title and your opponent has a ship in a carrying case near the play mat, that ship in the carrying case has to be in range 3 for the shuttle to get a Target Lock on it. That's how I read it, anyway. ;)

In the few games I've played on vassal against dual aggressor lists, we have played that when one was destroyed the other couldn't use the ability of the dead ship anymore.

Interesting. Injured pilot reads IGNORE your ability, not strip it away. It's still there, they just ignore it. Being placed on that specific ship, they only ignore it from that ship. So, that said, the other ship is fine and can still use both abilities. I also read it as all abilities and pilot upgrades on that cards, and the IG2000 upgrade says GAINS the pilot ability of all other IG88's, so that also tells me that the text of the ship becomes part of this ship.

I'd honestly say the other IG88 keeps both abilities ACTIVE. The crit doesn't say remove the ability, it merely says ignore, meaning he retains, but people ignore it. I really wish they could have put out an FAQ this week with the release, there are a ton of questions needing to be answered.

Actually we discovered recently that the text printed on IP does not match the image FFG has posted in a wave 3 article. The text reads that all players must ignore your pilot ability and elite pilot upgrades.

Effectively the ship with IP loses ALL pilot abilities, adn all other IG-2000 ships lose the ability from the one with IP, as all players must ignore that ability.

First, destroyed ships are no longer friendly. Otherwise I'm going to buy all 4 and sit the other 3 on the table just to gain their abilities (they're still friendly, right?).

Secondly, D was the most logical. Your pilot ability is the one granted on your ship card, similar to actions on your action bar. The title card grants the ability as an add-on. I'm not aware of anything that can strip title abilities.

A destroyed ship no longer exists as far as the active game is concerned. It is only there to count points destroyed from. Not sure why this is so difficult.

If 1 of the IG-88 pilots gets the injured pilot crit, he no longer has any pilot abilities or EPT's and thus cannot share anything with the other IG that doesn't have the crit since it now has no abilities.

You have the pilot ability of each other friendly ship with the IG-2000 Upgrade card (in addition to your own pilot ability).

The pilot with the crit no longer has any abilities and thus shares nothing.

The crit states:

(Pilot) All players must ignore your pilot ability and all of your (Elite Pilot Talent) upgrade cards.

All means you too so your other IG has to ignore it as well.

I don't believe there is a need for a FAQ update for this.