So in my first few skirmish games I played the Vaders Fist list and trashed opponents. I started to feel dirty using it. I then gave the list to my 9 year old son when I taught him to play and he trounced me.
So is Vader the man to fear going into tournaments? How do we stop The Dark Lord?
Yes he is the man to fear. Zach has started to write articles on ways to beat Vader. He will be the focus of the first round of OP events.
Then that makes me wonder how a Vader vs Vader match would go?
Honestly I don't think so, but I think a lot of people do, creating a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. He is pretty obviously powerful, but I would be surprised if a dark horse didn't emerge. Personally, I find just watching his threat ranges and ignoring him as much as possible or baiting him into bad positions very effective. Killing him is a pretty big risk, and typically not advisable, but I have done that as well and it usually results in a win when it happens.
I seriously think that all the people who are worried about Vader should swap him for the Royal Guard Champ for a couple games. The RGC is more troublesome than Vader IMO. When you are the fastest model on the table and the 2nd best melee'er (behind only Vader), you get very hard to ignore/plan for. the RGC's black/white dice on defense can also be really troublesome because of the random "LOL dodge!" chance.
That all being said, I think they are both beatable. I think a major factor in a lot of Vader's early success is that I feel it is a lot harder to build/play Rebels/Scum/other Imperial lists effectively whereas Vader has a pretty obvious "walk into room, kill stuff, win" strategy that's easy to pick up. He's kinda like how many felt the Falcon lists in X-Wing were when that model came out: beatable, but easy for less experienced players to pick up and win with (and obviously, something more experienced players could play pretty easily).
I think the more that people branch out and try the stuff that they feel like is inferior, the more rapidly we will see Vader's decline. I could be wrong, but my regular skirmish group hasn't had the same amount of trouble with Vader that a lot of people seem to be having.
I forget what the exact build of the Vader's Fist squad is. Would someone mind posting it here for reference's sake?
I forget what the exact build of the Vader's Fist squad is. Would someone mind posting it here for reference's sake?
http://teamcovenant.com/zachbunn/2014/12/15/vaders-fist-an-imperial-assault-skirmish-list/
The thing is, you dont try and kill Vader, if you do then you are doing it wrong.
Bring Jyn and use quick draw or attacks to stun him then use your other units to destroy everything else.
Yes you will lose models doing this stormtroopers fall easily, even with guards.
The thing is, you dont try and kill Vader, if you do then you are doing it wrong.
Bring Jyn and use quick draw or attacks to stun him then use your other units to destroy everything else.
Yes you will lose models doing this stormtroopers fall easily, even with guards.
Problem is that with Jyn it's **** near impossible to squeak enough damage in to stun Vader. Chewie or the Sabatuers would probably work better.
Argus with his ability to focus a friendly model helps Jyn get her damage through.
I played a fun skirmish match the other night. I played Vader/RGC/Officer and my opponent Han/Chewie/Luke. The synergy of the rebel characters staying together was impossible for me to beat. Han was able to fire some reaction shots and their defensive synergy made it very tough for me to really deal damage on any of them. I was able to kill Luke, but other than that I had the idea I didn't stand a chance. Probably my tactical decisions weren't great, but I really don't think Vader is OP. Nor Han, Chewie or the RGC for that matter.
I ended up wrecking an entire squad and hurting a few other figures with Vader by using the Lord of the Sith card.
He's strong, but I'm more of a fan of the AT-ST. Accuracy +3 right off the bat, Blast 2, Pierce 2, TARGETING COMPUTER, 2 Red and 1 blue attack dice, 2 black defense dice. Just so nice. The only setback is Awkward, which I've yet to really have a problem with. The people I've played against have all been too scared of getting in the LoS of the AT-ST to bother getting adjacent to it.
I think I'll have a friend run Vader's Fist against me using squad with the AT-ST, and see how I fare.
Out of curiosity, what are you running with your AT-ST. I tried out Weiss with 2 Stormtroopers, 2 reg Officers, 1 Elite Officer, and a reg Probe droid. It was ok but Weiss seemed to fall to concentrated fire even though he was rolling super hot with his black dice (never getting less than 3 defense with each shot). Rebel Piercing and "you can't roll all your defense dice" shenanigans helped though. I really liked the officers getting Weiss into position and giving him an extra attack but his attacks weren't all that hot and the rebel got a few lucky dodge rolls as well. Made me want another Elite Officer in the build though (drop 1 reg Officer and the Droid). 3 attacks per round with that bastard seems really mean.
I've been mixing it up a lot, so I can't recall exact units, but what you're running sounds pretty similar.
Maybe I'm just getting lucky rolls? I've rarely had to use targeting computer, and one time I two shot Han Solo. That was pretty funny.
Think I would go Vader, Guard, Officerx4, then a set of troopers. The reason for the officers over the set of troopers is because of cover(making the officers harder to kill), it gives you super movement, two extra acts.
I think overall they are pretty close on damage because of the surge focus.
Edited by Jonnyb815A build I have been working on is the following:
Weiss (16)
3x Imperial Officer (6)
3x Stormtrooper (18)
Haven't had a chance to play it yet in skirmish but can see the potential with it.
Don't you have to worry about indoor spaces of you take Weiss or plain AT-ST?
no. Skirmish ignores the indoor space restriction for those figures.
Things like Stun are great for dealing with characters like Vader. Death by 1000 cuts, but death non the less. Also, trandosans typically mess him up.
Things like Stun are great for dealing with characters like Vader. Death by 1000 cuts, but death non the less. Also, trandosans typically mess him up.
That's a lot of time and resources spent to deal with him. I am guessing that games will last 4 or 5 turns tops in tournaments so you are spending a large chunk of time dealing with him instead getting points via objectives
Things like Stun are great for dealing with characters like Vader. Death by 1000 cuts, but death non the less. Also, trandosans typically mess him up.
That's a lot of time and resources spent to deal with him. I am guessing that games will last 4 or 5 turns tops in tournaments so you are spending a large chunk of time dealing with him instead getting points via objectives
Things like Stun are great for dealing with characters like Vader. Death by 1000 cuts, but death non the less. Also, trandosans typically mess him up.
Thats another reason why my build carries Regroupx2 and officerx4 vs that extra set of troopers.