Late 80's. I wanted to get a trade behind me and I couldn't get a corps transfer to the Electrical & Mechanical Engineers, and decided RNZAC wasn't going to leave me much of a career post-army. The only qualifications I got there was a couple of classes on my driver's licence.

I know that one. I signed up for a commission in the infantry for the 'glamour' (i wanted guards or cav but was bluntly told as my family didnt have a title or a private income of 60k a year or more or an estate it was highly unlikely).

Really?!? The British Army is still hung up on elitist crap like that? I'm rather stunned. In New Zealand, you just had to have a reasonable education if you wanted to apply for Officer Cadets School. A year later you'd be commisioned.

When I was training, our platoon commander was a lieutenant that was fresh out of OCS and only 19 years old. He could pretty much match anyone on the rifle range and could out run nearly everyone in the platoon. I guess he thought he had to prove himself. Still a down to earth sort of guy though, really likeable - for a youngster. I was 4 years older than him at the time and the oldest guy in the platoon. Everyone was calling me Grandad, and that made me feel old.

I know what you mean about joining a support corp. Seems placements within them were fairly limited. And from what I hear lately the British Army seems to be contracting out a lot of work to civilian contractors these days.

If I had have stayed in I would have been driving M113 APCs and Scorpion light tanks, the two main vehicles we had in the Armoured Corps at the time. As it was, only a few years later they retired the Scorpions and the armoured squadron got redesignated as a mounted rifle company, so I would have seen out my days operating NZLAVs. Not exactly the Armoured Corps that I envisaged. The only transferable skill would have been the ability to drive a bulldozer.

Still, it was a fun experience.

Really?!? The British Army is still hung up on elitist crap like that? I'm rather stunned. In New Zealand, you just had to have a reasonable education if you wanted to apply for Officer Cadets School. A year later you'd be commisioned.

yes and no

Officially 'no'. unofficially 'most definitely'

Anyone with a degree can go for a commission, you train up physically, sit the RCB (regular commisions board) board do a *lot* of assessments over three days (and their is a pre selection course of two days which is equally tough called pre RCB).

When i went for my first pre 'pre RCB' interviews i was asked what i wanted to do. I said , well my family are welsh so maybe 'welsh guards', i quite like Cav and i can ride so maybe the Cavalry.

The chap at the recruiting office said 'Does your father have a private income of 60k a year or more?'

I said 'no Sir my father passed away a few years ago'

He said 'does your family have a private income estate of 60k a year or more?'

I said 'no sir my mother manages a bakery and my father left a pension of just under £10K a year.'

He said 'forget the guards or the cav then. We'll pay you £17k as a subaltern, your mess bills alone for the guards will be £35K a year!'

You can join the guards as 'normal' lad as an officer but affording to be in the mess will cripple you, you can not be in the mess but you'd have a shoddy time and be ostracised. The fact everyother guards officer will have been to eton means i'd have been ostracised anyway.

he said 'where do your family live now?'

I said 'Staffordshire sir'

He said 'Staffords, they are a **** good infantry regiment, they'd have you as you're local to them.

so i signed up with them.

So *technically* its an even playing field but during my pre RCB and my RCB i was probably one of the most 'working class' people there (and i went to a grammar school founded in 1500) , most the other candidates were public school. The making your mess bills double your salary essentially excludes all but the very wealthy from 'elite' (in terms of tradition) regiments.

In reality once you go to Sandhurst after your 11 months you can join *any* regiment but a regiment has to agree to sponsor you to get there first and its seen as underhand and disloyal not to join your sponsoring regiment... unless its clear you're mismatched...like you're sponsored by the Infantry and you're a genius with languages and should be in int corp.

I also asked about Int corp but i've got very 'western' tattoes (black tribal half sleeve) and distinguishing features like that were sub optimal in the inteligence corps as they want you to be a 'grey man' a lot of the time in case you have to blend in somewhere or get washed up on a beach somewhere we're not supposed to be

Major Green my sponsor with the Staffords was brilliant and *quite rightly* as i had no military experience arranged for me to do some time with the battalion as a private soldier /officer candidate while i went through the selection process (normally can take up to a year, took longer in my case as i go adult chicken pox and had to miss an intake for RMAS)

If I had have stayed in I would have been driving M113 APCs and Scorpion light tanks, the two main vehicles we had in the Armoured Corps at the time. As it was, only a few years later they retired the Scorpions and the armoured squadron got redesignated as a mounted rifle company, so I would have seen out my days operating NZLAVs. Not exactly the Armoured Corps that I envisaged. The only transferable skill would have been the ability to drive a bulldozer.

Still, it was a fun experience.

Always loved Scorpions and the whole CVRT series (we dont have many scorpions in service anymore), my mates were in 1RTR and the recce element has CVRTs IIRC.

You know why scorpion/cvrt series are so thin? They were designed to be the right width to be able to drive between the trees of Malayan rubber plantations!

Or so i was told.

You know why scorpion/cvrt series are so thin? They were designed to be the right width to be able to drive between the trees of Malayan rubber plantations!

Or so i was told.

Sounds plausible for the time frame.

I thought it was due to a shortage of the Coke cans they were made from.

Really?!? The British Army is still hung up on elitist crap like that? I'm rather stunned. In New Zealand, you just had to have a reasonable education if you wanted to apply for Officer Cadets School. A year later you'd be commisioned.

yes and no

Officially 'no'. unofficially 'most definitely'

Anyone with a degree can go for a commission, you train up physically, sit the RCB (regular commisions board) board do a *lot* of assessments over three days (and their is a pre selection course of two days which is equally tough called pre RCB).

When i went for my first pre 'pre RCB' interviews i was asked what i wanted to do. I said , well my family are welsh so maybe 'welsh guards', i quite like Cav and i can ride so maybe the Cavalry.

The chap at the recruiting office said 'Does your father have a private income of 60k a year or more?'

I said 'no Sir my father passed away a few years ago'

He said 'does your family have a private income estate of 60k a year or more?'

I said 'no sir my mother manages a bakery and my father left a pension of just under £10K a year.'

He said 'forget the guards or the cav then. We'll pay you £17k as a subaltern, your mess bills alone for the guards will be £35K a year!'

You can join the guards as 'normal' lad as an officer but affording to be in the mess will cripple you, you can not be in the mess but you'd have a shoddy time and be ostracised. The fact everyother guards officer will have been to eton means i'd have been ostracised anyway.

he said 'where do your family live now?'

I said 'Staffordshire sir'

He said 'Staffords, they are a **** good infantry regiment, they'd have you as you're local to them.

so i signed up with them.

So *technically* its an even playing field but during my pre RCB and my RCB i was probably one of the most 'working class' people there (and i went to a grammar school founded in 1500) , most the other candidates were public school. The making your mess bills double your salary essentially excludes all but the very wealthy from 'elite' (in terms of tradition) regiments.

In reality once you go to Sandhurst after your 11 months you can join *any* regiment but a regiment has to agree to sponsor you to get there first and its seen as underhand and disloyal not to join your sponsoring regiment... unless its clear you're mismatched...like you're sponsored by the Infantry and you're a genius with languages and should be in int corp.

I also asked about Int corp but i've got very 'western' tattoes (black tribal half sleeve) and distinguishing features like that were sub optimal in the inteligence corps as they want you to be a 'grey man' a lot of the time in case you have to blend in somewhere or get washed up on a beach somewhere we're not supposed to be

Major Green my sponsor with the Staffords was brilliant and *quite rightly* as i had no military experience arranged for me to do some time with the battalion as a private soldier /officer candidate while i went through the selection process (normally can take up to a year, took longer in my case as i go adult chicken pox and had to miss an intake for RMAS)

I still find that a rather amazing and quite ridiculous process. Clearly, the British Army don't want any peasants running the show. We don't have any of the aristocracy hang ups down here, due to the total lack of aristocracy I suppose. I'd be intrigued to know what sort of officer candidate that process produces. Just because your family is wealthy doesn't necessarily make you a good commander of soldiers in the field. And the mess bill drama?!? That's just reinforcing the whole thing. Crazy.

Interesting to see you joined the Staffordshire Regt. I play modern 1/300 scale and have a large collection of British that I've organised around the 7th Armoured Brigade. Challenger Is from the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards, and Warriors from 1 Btn, Staffordshire Regt. The funny thing is, if you were in 1st Battalion, I've probably got a model of you in 1/300 scale.

Wow, that is pretty nuts that you would need to come from money to serve where you want. We don't have that (for the most part) in the US Army. Granted, our officers create a wish list of where they want to branch ( Infantry, Cavalry, Signal, etc) and are chosen based on how they perform against their peers.

Of course here we get assigned to a unit and as you progress through your career, Human Resources Command will send you to a different unit type so you don't stay in one type of unit forever. My enlisted career for example: 3 years Mechanized (Stryker) Infantry -> 3 years Light Infantry (Pathfinder) -> Instructor Duty (current assignment). Some guys know how to game the system and stay at the same post for about 15 years but for the most part Soldiers on this side of the pond transfer all the time.

I participated in a PPC match with my dad a few months ago. I was shooting a revolver that performed flawlessly, however my dad was shooting a Colt .380 auto. During the first stage, the slide spring broke on his pistol. His day was over before it began.

On a side note, a buddy of mine had a Glock 22 while he was in the Army, stationed in Alaska. Be beat the living crap out of that gun (mud, snow, water, ice ect) and it kept working flawlessly. I love my Glock 23 lol.

Interesting to see you joined the Staffordshire Regt. I play modern 1/300 scale and have a large collection of British that I've organised around the 7th Armoured Brigade. Challenger Is from the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards, and Warriors from 1 Btn, Staffordshire Regt. The funny thing is, if you were in 1st Battalion, I've probably got a model of you in 1/300 scale.

Not unless your games are all set around Catterick garrison in the late 90s I had a *very* uneventful time in HM Forces. Never really did anything particularly interesting. Spent time with both 1st and 3rd battalions (regular and reserve) over three and half years.

Edit:

Dont get me wrong, the system allows you to technically join whatever you want to join but social class does come into it as guards and cav officers are usually doing a short stint before going into a city job.

You get some working and lower middle class officers. My first company commander had come up through the ranks (he was in the gulf in 91) but you tend to get them in certain places.

For example cav like the life guards or blues and royals, if you've not been to the right school , well forget it.

The royal tank regiment however dont have the same ethos, their nickname is 'peoples cav' or 'chav cav' as they traditionally started from officers who didnt fit in in other branches.

Most officers from 'good schools' will have had pre military training as part of the schools CCF (combined cadet force) and also be quite used to , and confident about, telling people what to do. They are also quite used to a very regimented life.

On the whole British Army officers still are the best in the world. There is a reason most other countries are falling over themselves to send their cadets to Sandhurst... because it provides bloody good leaders.

The class entrenchment is slowly slipping away, more so after 15 years in an ongoing war in iraq or afghan and a need to process more officers through than was needed when i was about in the 90s (nothing really happening around 1998 on the scale it did after 9.11).

But its still there to a degree, just in certain regiments.

On the whole its not an issue in support services, royal artillery, tank regiments etc. It is an issue in guards and 'household division' cavalry.

Its near non existant in the navy and raf.

My modern army is based around BAOR mainly. I've got a Squadron of Chieftain tanks and a company or two of FV432s for 1980s era, but I'm going to get some Challenger 2s and some Warriors with additional armour so I can run Cold War '80s through to late 2000s. I've also got elements for the 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment (US), and because there's not too many players down this way, I generally have to supply the opposing force as well, and for this I've got a Soviet tank battalion with T-72s and BMP-2s.

So if you weren't in Germany at any stage, then I wouldn't have a 1/300 miniature Gadge in my army.

Heheh

I've got a 1/300 scale soviet motor rifles element.

Its not massive. Eight or so BMP1 , 2 BMP2 and 4 T72s (i think), i'll drag up a pic. a friend of mine and i did cold war micro armour for a while but we played 'one tank is one tank' and made our own rules up so it wasnt like epic battles, more skirmishes.

As for BAOR a fe of my older mates were in BAOR int he 80s and one of my re-enactment groups i run is 'royal union rifles' which is a fictional BAOR unit of the 80s (circa 83).

We deliberately made up a capbadge as we're all from different services and regiments so it saved a lot of arguing and also doesnt offend anyone opposed to 'living history' by wearing their capbadge.

Here you go. we've about 25 guys on the books but only really ever get 15 at the most at a time out to a battle. We're wearing safety glasses in a lot of shots because we're firing airsoft pellets at each other and no one wants to get blinded (the odd totoh gets smashed though).

My fave is the pic taken when my recce section completely got the drop on a soviet section at one battle and brough them all back for a chat...

Me my 2ic and Nige my signaller

having a chat with the russians

The guys with M16s were part of anothe group but a few of the lads before moving out on a patrol as part of a cold war battle

made up capbadge, we had loads of these cast up for the guys

The wife takes part as WRAC in some displays we do.

The usual guys

And lastly my 1/300 soviet armour. At the time my camera couldnt focus on stuff this small so they are a bit blurry

You cant tell in that pic but the recce element in the BMP2s, the dismounted stands of infantry are all painted to be wearing KLMK oversuits.

Very cool! My Soviets number considerably more. I also prefer 1:1 for the vehicle to model ratio, so the Tank Regiment currently numbers 21 T-72s and 25 BMP-2s, plus 4 ZSU 23-4s, 4 2S6M Tunguskas, 9 BRDM2s with AT-5 Spandrel, and some other sundries.

The BAOR is by far my biggest collection with a full battalion of Warriors and 2 squadrons of Challenger Is, plus enough Scimitars and Scorpions to do a couple of Recon squadrons.

My Americans are a bit hit and miss at the moment, but I've got enough vehicles for 2 full Armoured Cavalry squadrons of M1A1s and M3 Bradleys. I'll lay them out on a table and get a shot some time.