Playing encounter 2 of Castle Derion. It says OL had Sir Alric, ettins, zombies and 1 open group.

Instructions then say where to put Sir Alric, ettins, open group and "Place a number of minion zombies on the throne room equal to the number of villager tokens in front of the OL (ignoring group limits)."

I killed 3 villagers in encounter #1, so does that mean I get 3 ADDITIONAL zombies (thus I need to ignore group limits) or 3 TOTAL zombies?

No, you get 3 total zombies.

The "ignoring group limits" is there so if it's a 2 hero game, and you got 4 villagers, you still place 4 zombies.

Thanks guys!

Aaaaaannnd victory for the OL.

I forgot to mention for that one to check the official errata, the quest got changed a bit.

I forgot to mention for that one to check the official errata, the quest got changed a bit.

"a lot."

OMG the entire Sir Palamon thing needs SERIOUS help. Yes, I have checked the errata. Please please help clear this mess up for us.

In the special rules, it says "Treat him as a hero figure except that he cannot perform any actions and cannot recover and health." Seems simple enough--no actions!

Except later the rules says he can move. Wut?

"At the end of the last hero turn each round...Sir Palamon tests willpower to marshal more defenders. If he fails, there is no effect. After testing to marshal defenders, Sir Palamon may perform 1 move action . If he passes, place 1 fatigue token on him and place 1 militiaman on the entrance tile. He cannot perform other actions."

So he cannot perform any actions but he can perform an action? Seriously, how are we supposed to interpret that?

Let's say that, for whatever reason, the first quote is null and void, how are we supposed to understand what occurs? More to the point, what does "If he passes" mean--if he passes the willpower test or if he passes from moving? I have got to believe it is passing from moving based on the position in the paragraph but honestly, this is brutally unclear.

FFG themselves have admitted that the wording on this quest is particularly unclear.

However, they have since clarified their intention. Sir Palamon does perform a move action every single turn, after testing to marshall defenders, regardless of whether he passed or failed the test.

The reason the wording is kinda messed up and contradictory is that originally Sir Palamon could not move. Moving was added in an errata as the quest was too difficult for the heroes when Palamon was a sitting duck. The change has actually tipped the quest in the other direction though. This one is now difficult for the OL, particularly if the heroes manage to sandwich Palamon at the entrance between themselves + militia, and the exit.

I highly recommend Ogres (the CK ones, not the nerfed H&M version) for this quest. Undying lets them live long enough to survive the initial hero onslaught, and once they do, all it takes is a Knockback/Throw combo to send Palamon flying into the backroom where Sir Alric is ready to give him a warm reception. Alric makes mincement of Palamon once he gets an Overpower chain going, knocking him around like a ragdoll. You can stick an Ettin in his way so he can't escape, either.

Good luck with your quest.

Thanks Charmy but I am unclear if he gets a stamina token from passing his willpower test or from not moving.

On the upside, I won this (as the OL). But it was brutal.

I put some serious hurt on Palamon before my daughters figured out to squirrel him down the hall. By that time he had one health left but it became clear that, despite my best efforts, I wasn't going to break through and they would win.

Then they decided to move him farther back in the hallway and I hit them with Tripwire (or pit trap, the one that torches you for 1 health). He failed and they lost. BOO-YA!

He gets a fatigue token from passing his Willpower test to marshal defenders.

Yikes. So, given that I don't have orgre's from 1st ed and getting Palamon down that hallway won't be very hard, this quest looks near impossible for the OL against a knowledgeable group.

I can't support using a conversion kit version of the monster when there's a more recent update of the monster. The more recent update of the monster is clearly the intended one to use, or else they wouldn't have updated it.

That said, you can still win this, but it's hard. It's going to come down heavily to whether you can get a throw on him with the ettin or not. Careful use of overlord cards can guy you enough time to get one, but if Palaman gets to the entrance, you can pretty much give up.

This quest is hero favored.

My personal opinion of act 1 on balance (note, this is a general rule and doesn't take hero composition into account, which can swing them either way, so this isn't always true):
Fat Goblin: Hero Favored

Castle Daerion: Hero Favored

Masquerade Ball: Overlord Favored

Cardinal's Plight: Overlord Favored

Death on the Wing: Hero Favored

I generally go straight to Masquerade Ball if I won the introduction to get it going before the heroes learn a bunch of skills. The relic reward (Bones of Woe) are spectacular, and are a major game changer. Having a 1/3 chance each turn of drawing an extra overlord card whenever there's a lieutenant on the map is extremely beneficial.

The Shield of Zorek's Favor from Death on the Wing is an exceptional relic for a few quests (any which feature a high might hero like Baron Zachareth), but is very hard to win unless you can get into quest 2 with a couple web traps and other trap cards. It's very difficult to win the first encounter, and unless you can stall out the heroes immediately in act 2, they make mincemeat of Bel'thir before he even gets to take a turn.

I can't support using a conversion kit version of the monster when there's a more recent update of the monster. The more recent update of the monster is clearly the intended one to use, or else they wouldn't have updated it.

I haven't read anywhere that the H&M monsters are considered an official errata to the original monsters and thus invalidates the CK. If anything has been stated to that effect I will retract this post.

Otherwise, the fact that they reprinted them and changed them is fine, but it doesn't automatically invalidate the old monsters. I think their primary reason for tossing Undying is that they didn't want to print a 2nd minion Ogre, which would be required if you don't want to proxy the mini.

In the past you've made your opinion on the CK very clear, and that you don't like it and consider it imbalanced. That is not a universal opinion though, and I would definitely say that which version someone uses should be a matter of personal taste and is not a house rule or other form of non-standard play.

Got to agree with Whitewing on using the updated card if its available - Some heroes/ monsters have been left alone as they have been deemed OK, others have been tweaked quite heavily.

While there has been no official word that these supersede the CK stuff i would say that the intent is pretty obvious and thats how my group and i play.

That said i would also agree with you that the reason for getting rid of undying is a cost/size issue with the packing and that as long as the game group is happy to play with the older CK version that using a product FFG produced and you bought is well above board.

Mostly as i consider the newer ogres to be looking distinctly sub par. (the only thing in the H&M kits that i can think of that have been made worse...)

Back to the quest though - with the errata sir palamon is such a colossal pain in the !"£ to deal with, i would have to say that that the first and maybe second turn are critical. If you can get alric to overrun him then you are going to be doing serious damage very quickly, if he gets away you are never realistically going to catch him.

If you allow the use of CK monsters, then your group needs to allow the use of CK heroes that were 'tweaked" as well, like Mok.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander and if the OL is allowed to use non-nerfed versions of mosnters, the heroes need to be allowed the same.

That being said, I consider the new release to be the "official" version. Like an app or a computer program, you can continue using the "beta" version, but the offical one is the one with all the updates.