Unexpected Interactions.

By DraconPyrothayan, in X-Wing

Lando (YT1300) with Leebo and Nien Nunb as crew uses Leebo crew for free action boost and ion, PTL for an action and stress, ion 1 straight becomes green clearing stress and triggering Lando's pilot ability granting a free action to 1 other friendly ship at range 1.

I may play this just for fun

That does not work:

- The boost reference card specifically says that boost is not a maneuver and Nien Numb and Lando specifically says that it affects only maneuvers.

- Even if it was a maneuver, the stress check step happens at step 4 while performing actions happens at step 6, so green or not, you don't remove any stress past step 4.

The ion 1 straight maneuver happens the next turn after the leebo actions and PTL. Nien would turn that 1 straight green, not the boost action, if I am reading the cards correctly

oh ok, I see. I had not caught on that this was taking place over more than one turn.

R2 Astromech/nien do not change a white maneuver from daredevil/ion due to it being a worse condition (same reasoning behind damaged engine+r2

I ACTUALLY think that the FAQ for Daredevil (as far as I remember) actually helped make Daredevil even more clear than this.

In the FAQ, Daredevil should read something like: "Perform a white 1 hard turn, then assign 1 stress token to your ship."

So as far as I can tell, it never is actually a Red maneuver, so in no way can R2 make Daredevil a NOT give you stress. But heck, I think R2 would actually turn it green, which would only provide meaning if you were SOMEHOW taking a Daredevil action when you are already stressed, AND have the R2 astromech equipped. Experimental Interface might make this possible. EI + R2 + Daredevil, though you'll take damage from Daredevil, so that is a moot point...

Of course R2 changes the daredevil maneuver to green, just like damaged engine turns it red. And of course the maneuver does not remove or assign stress. Daredevil allows you to execute a maneuver, not to check pilot stress. You perform step three of the activation phase, not any of the other five steps.

You've got those swarm tactics decoy ideas wrong....

A p.s. 3 awing with swarm tactics can bring your higher p.s. Wedge down to p.s. 3.

If the a wing has both decoy and swarm tactics, and wedge has predator / or opportunist...The a wing can swap p.s. To be p.s. 9 with decoy and then swarm tactics another ship, or if wedge is at range one, give him back p.s. 9. (This is what I meant above.).

Likewise it could swarm tactics wedge to p.s. 3, then decoy itself with say Airen cracken with opportunist, to fire at higher p.s. And fire before wedge and cracken or it could decoy with edge and swap it's 3 with wedges three... There are lots of tricks in a larger squad you can pull... Like allowing wedge to expose off of Airen's action at p.s. 3, after most enemy ships have fired - possibly getting around the agility reduction issue.

Likewise it could swarm tactics wedge to p.s. 3

I thought this was FAQ'd to be impossible

No - I think swarm tactics was errata'd to add the word "may" because before - when you had someone get hit with damaged cockpit - they HAD to swarm tactics someone else to P.S. 0... Now that's not a requirement. It's the Squad Leader that must be used on someone of lesser pilot skill you're thinking of perhaps?

If you have a Hot Shot Blaster and Biggs is out of your arc, you'd have to expend the Hot Shot and fire at him (assuming no targets outside Range 1 of Biggs).

You could always choose not to attack though right.....

If you have a Hot Shot Blaster and Biggs is out of your arc, you'd have to expend the Hot Shot and fire at him (assuming no targets outside Range 1 of Biggs).

You could always choose not to attack though right.....

Correct. Although Biggs is still doing his "job" of preventing shots at his teammates.

No, R5K6 is still terrible.

Even on BTL-A4 Dutch, the 'average' is only higher because it's possible to roll 2 evades on 2 green dice. In reality, you roll one green dice, and if it fails, you just lost your chance at the double target lock.

I'm finding this difficult to explain, but basically it's the difference between rolling 2 green dice, and rolling one after the other. You are more likely to get a single new TL out of rolling the two dice together, because if you roll one after the other, and the first dice fails, you don't get the second dice. Is this making sense?

No, R5K6 is still terrible.

Even on BTL-A4 Dutch, the 'average' is only higher because it's possible to roll 2 evades on 2 green dice. In reality, you roll one green dice, and if it fails, you just lost your chance at the double target lock.

I'm finding this difficult to explain, but basically it's the difference between rolling 2 green dice, and rolling one after the other. You are more likely to get a single new TL out of rolling the two dice together, because if you roll one after the other, and the first dice fails, you don't get the second dice. Is this making sense?

I know the math.

Doing it the way you're accusing me of doing it would net me 1.5 TLs per turn, not 1.03125.

The formula I used was (1+3/8 + 3/8(3/8))x2 -(1)x2.

Wherin the "1"s are the number of Target Locks you get for performing an action

The "x2"s are Dutch's Ability (i.e. Every target lock you get on yourself is a target lock that an ally also gets)

The initial "3/8" is R5-K6's odds of working right the first time (3/8 of the sides are win conditions)

The "3/8(3/8) is R5-K6's odds of working right both times (3/8 of the 3/8 of the initial win conditions).

Dutch without R5-K6, but still with BTL-A4, gives out 2 TLs a turn, to the fleet as a whole.

Dutch with R5-K6 and BTL-A4 gives out 2 TLs a turn, but has a 3/8 chance to give out a total of 4, and a 9/64 to give out a total of 6.

Edited by DraconPyrothayan

Oh - one more for you...

Corran Horn can attack another ship while bumping that ship, or on an asteroid, during the end phase.

Not so sure on this though.

Edited by Ravncat

Oh - one more for you...

Corran Horn can attack another ship while bumping that ship, or on an asteroid, during the end phase.

Since the rulebook speaks only of a "combat phase restriction" when talking about overlapping ships shooting each other, this is correct.

I'm not sure that it was intended, but since they had plenty of time to FAQ it, I must assume it was.

Rulebook quote, page 17:

"Ships whose bases are touching cannot declare each other as a target during the Combat phase while their bases remain touching. As soon as either of these ships moves away (so that the bases are no longer touching), this combat restriction no longer applies."

Edited by Sunitsa

Added Fettigator, Stay On Target + Navigator, and Stay On Tetran combos.
Added Corran Horn's end-phase shot firing at otherwise inaccessible targets.

Oh - one more for you...

Corran Horn can attack another ship while bumping that ship, or on an asteroid, during the end phase.

Since the rulebook speaks only of a "combat phase restriction" when talking about overlapping ships shooting each other, this is correct.

I'm not sure that it was intended, but since they had plenty of time to FAQ it, I must assume it was.

Rulebook quote, page 17:

"Ships whose bases are touching cannot declare each other as a target during the Combat phase while their bases remain touching. As soon as either of these ships moves away (so that the bases are no longer touching), this combat restriction no longer applies."

Has it been confirmed that it works?

While it's true that it says during the combat phase, it also says ''As soon as either of these ships moves away, this combat restriction no longer applies''. This can be interpreted that as long as neither of those ships moves away, the combat restriction still applies.

After a further reading of the rulebook, I believe it needs a clarification from FFG (unless there has already been one somewhere I couldn't find).

The rules preventing to shoot at overlapped ships seems to come into consideration only during the Combat phase, so Corran being able to shoot during the end phase isn't affected by it.

Keywords here are "attack" and "combat": by combat, the rulebook seems to referring specifically to the Combat phase, so when resolving Corran's second attack, despite having to follow the proper "steps" of the combat phase ("Declare a target", "Roll attack dice", etc.) technically he's not in a combat phase, so the normal target declaration restriction of not being able to shoot an overlapped ship shouldn't apply (because it expicitly refers to "combat" instead of "attack" like Corran ability does).

I don't feel this was supposed to happen, and it looks like to a case of poor interaction between an older and a newer rules that was ovelooked because everyone assumed that you can't shoot at a ship you overlap unless specifically stated otherwise .

However, I'm pretty new to the game and being the E-wing around since long time, it seems strange to me that this case wasn't already resolved in a way or another, especially because the rulebook, page 10, says: "A ship cannot target a ship if their bases are touching (see “Overlapping Other Ships” on page 17)", but then at page 17 brings out that this "combat restriction" thing.

Either way, despite the fact I'm pretty sure Corran shouldn't be able to pull out that trick, the whole rule would love a better phrasing.

You seem to skip an important part: '' As soon as either of these ships moves away (so that the bases are not touching) , this combat restriction no longer applies.''

At the start of the End phase, did any of these ships moves away? No, then the bases are still touching: The combat restriction still applies.

When the game first came out, there was no way to attack another ship except during the combat phase. So, when they refer to attacking, it seems reasonable to remind people of the rule that combat occurs during the combat phase. Repetition of rules or sequence in a rulebook is common practice to help people remember the flow of the game.

There is two rules here that needs to be respected, unless a pilot ability trump it.

-When two ships bases are touching, they both can't attack each other. (Arvel ability allows you to still attack)

-Combat occurs during the combat phase. (Corran ability allows you to attack during the End phase)

Bases are still considered to be touching each other as long as no ship moves, which can happen only during the activation phase or via action given during the Combat phase. Now, if there is a rule that specifically says that bases are only considered touching during the combat phase, that's a different story, but that's not how I read it. In the Declare target step, it specifically says: ''A ship cannot target a ship if their bases are touching.'' So, since bases are still considered touching (no ship moved), Corran cannot target the ship for his attack.

EDIT: As for seeing a distinction between ''Combat'' and ''Attack'', what does Attack refers to then? There seems to be only an order for Combat. Does it means that Corran just can't make his Attack because there is no written sequence for it?

Edited by Red Castle

I do agree with your interpretation, because it seems the most logical and adherent to the spirit of the rule.

My biggest issue is that I beleive it would benefit being better written, because right now it's far from being crystal clear and might lead to obnoxius players trying to abuse it

If you do happen to meet that kind of player, just refer him to the ''Declare Target'' step of the Attack where it says that you can't shoot a ship you are touching bases with, and then ask him to prove to you that your bases are not considered touching since both of you didn't moved.

If he argue that there is a distinction between a Combat sequence and an Attack sequence, ask him to show you the Attack sequence in the rulebook. Since he won't be able to (unless he refers to the Combat sequence where it says that you can't shoot a ship touching bases with you), his Corran just won't be able to attack anymore during the End phase, because according to him, there is no rule in the rulebook for an attack.

After all that, tell him politely that he might be reading too much into it and try to exploit a rule that is just not there. Resolve your game as intended.

Oh - one more for you...

Corran Horn can attack another ship while bumping that ship, or on an asteroid, during the end phase.

rules page 10:

"ship cannot target a ship if their bases are touching (see “Overlapping Other Ships” on page 17)."

Looks like neither work then, oh well.. , yay for teamwork.

Here's an odd combination I noticed while browsing the FAQ.

Munitions Failsafe doesn't care if Flechette Torpedoes inflicts a stress, just that it doesn't do damage. Accuracy corrector can cancel all dice results.

The net result? You can fire a flechette torpedo every round, inflicting no damage but stressing any ship with a hull value of 4 or less. Combine with Nera Dantells and it's that much funnier.

Horrible waste of a perfectly good b-wing, I know, but amusing.

Sad that Damaged sensor Array card not stopping Isard/E-Interface doesn't make list. I thought that was a very bizzare interaction. Especially when Kyle Katarn only assigns the token in the Rebel Faction.

Sad that Damaged sensor Array card not stopping Isard/E-Interface doesn't make list. I thought that was a very bizzare interaction. Especially when Kyle Katarn only assigns the token in the Rebel Faction.

Well, its in the ACTUAL FAQ.

I suppose I should do a large update, some time that isn't 1 AM :D

Sad that Damaged sensor Array card not stopping Isard/E-Interface doesn't make list. I thought that was a very bizzare interaction. Especially when Kyle Katarn only assigns the token in the Rebel Faction.

It doesn't stop it on the decimator, but does on the firespray. Is that what you meant?

Yeah. Of the four Imp ships capable of carrying her (Phantom, Shuttle, Decimator, Firespray) she only is affected by this damage card on half of them. Just stands out to me. Fitting I guess thematically, but mechanically strange.

Not sure if its been mentioned but a small addition:

Airen + Cluster missiles can pass two actions when he uses the missiles

Calculation gives Imperial Kath the largest likelyhood of producing stress.

Coran + R3A2 + Flechette Torps can guarantee 3 Stress on one target the turn he double taps (if the target is still alive after the final attack of course)

Thats some great stress spam right there.

Edited by Kalandros