Ok, I know this topic is around here a lot, but I really would like some input from you players...

The official sympathizer rule states that the additional "depowered" cylon only appears if a certain condition of the game is meet (meaning all resources in blue, or in another words, humans are doing very well), and that condition is the development of the game until the sleeper phase.

There could also be other 2 conditions to determine if this cylon appears in the middle of the game:

1- A random draw of a card (the player simply pulls a card, and that card decides)

2- A willing decision from a player (the player simply "decides" in which side he will play. Indeed, this would depend on the general state of the game at that point, and also on whta that player wnats to do..)

In your option, which one will you use, and which one will "add" to the game? (or at least stays inside the general idea of the game)?

Thanks

I think I would have to go with willing decision because to draw a card is simply another way of saying 'draw another loyalty card.'

1. Random is interesting.

2. Willing choice is poor. It'd then be a "join the winning team" card.

I like the sympathizer mechanic. I just wish it actually measured how well the humans were really doing. Our group tends to (if the admiral is human) to choose locations such that the fuel will be in the red at the sleeper phase (barren planet, asteroid field, desolate moon). This will typically rob the person with a you are a cylon card of an ally, even though the humans aren't actually doing that badly. It would be okay if there were some way for a cylon (revealed or otherwise) to punish low fuel (in the way that they could punish low morale by dropping it to 0), but currently there isn't (there aren't many crises that drop fuel).

I think the sympathizer would be fine if it didn't look at fuel, the easiest resource to put in the red, and the safest one from being dropped to 0.

A friend came up with this and it looks good, although we've yet to test it:

DEEP COVER SYMPATHISER variant (use instead of the standard sympathiser mechanic)

The player who receives the "Sympathiser" card is a "Deep Cover" cylon agent is unaware of his or her true nature. For all intents and purposes, they believe they are human until some outside influence reveals it to them. They are governed by the following rules;

- An unrevealed "Deep Cover" sympathiser wins if the humans win and lose when the humans lose.

- A "Deep Cover" sympathiser may not choose to reveal.

- If the "Deep Cover" sympathiser is ever sent to the Brig or the Sick Bay, they MUST reveal.

- A revealed "Deep Cover" sympathiser immediately becomes a cylon player, following the standard sympathiser rules.

- An unrevealed "Deep Cover" sympathiser may NOT inform other players of their true nature, under the rules of secrecy. However, they MAY intimate that sending them to the Brig and/or Sick Bay is "not a good idea", or words to that effect. They should avoid saying anything which would intimate that they might be the sympathiser.

What we were planning to do to make the Sympathiser more interesting is simply to let them stay as a hidden Cylon if they choose rather than being forced to reveal.

The Sympathiser plays mostly like the original card except that:

During the sleeper phase before loyalty cards are given out the resource dials are checked so the nature of the sympathiser can be announced.

If a total of 8 resources has been lost OR 2 dials are in the red then it is announced that whoever recieves the sympathiser card should reveal it and be sent to the brig. (you could use the any one dial into the red like the original but we think that is a bit too easy)

If a total of 8 resources wasnt lost and no 2 dials are in the red, then it is announced that the Sympathiser card is a Cylon. If given the card you do not reveal it. You remain as a hidden cylon just like a regular Cylon would. You can choose to reveal as an action just like a regular Cylon though you do not have any reveal powers and do not get a super crisis card and cannot activate the cylon fleet location.

This slight modification at least allows the sympathiser to play the hidden Cylon game since once they reveal they are less useful.

Kamakaze said:

Making them less useful is precisely the idea though.

The Sympathiser is supposed to balance things out when playing with even numbers of players. You see, if you had 2 "full blooded" cylons against 2 humans, the humans would lose everytime. By limiting what the sympathiser can do (no Super Crisis card, no fleet activations), it gives the humans a chance to win. Given that it can be extremely hard for the human players to even defeat the Crisis cards that come their way, the humans definitely need more help!

So the issue really is that you have to balance how good the Sympathiser is (i.e. a "half blood" cylon which gives the humans a bit of breathing room) against how much fun it is to be the Sympathiser. And it is the latter which is really the issue.

Thus, with any alternative rules, I personally would certainly be looking for making the sympathiser character more interesting (while remaining thematic) but without making it any more powerful.

I have thought about a variant like Kamakaze proposes, very similar. And I like it

But the point there remains that the Sympathizer "appears" due to a condition of the game (in this case, resources), and has to do with balance of the game.

My question was more regarding what you guys would prefer, to actually choose what side to play (actually, that cannot be done under original rules), or to let a random factor not dependant on the side that is winning to determine your loyalty (like simply drawing a card)...

Dth and Kamikazee both make some interesting variants, and I think I'm going to suggest them to our group. Having played the sympathizer the other day in a game where one player had both You Are a Cylon cards, and the fleet jumped twice before he could pass the second card (and thus got stuck with the extra card), I can say that that was least enjoyable game of BSG.

And how, do you ask, did the fleet jump twice? We hit 4 distance thanks to Legenday Discovery (my crisis card, and I became the sympathizer) , the next Crisis Card jumped the fleet, the cylon player didn't reveal when the fleet was at 5 distance (Boomer was in the Brig, and he though he could do more damage if the group thought she was a cylon), and the fleet jumped to 8 distance (Asteroid Field, I believe) before it got back around to him. And I don't think ANY resource hit the red that entire game.

Hi

My gaming group recently came up with and decided to play with these rules. We call it "Paranoia";

1. In 4 and 6 player games, take 1 additional "You Are A Cylon" card and two additional "You Are Not A Cylon" cards. Randomize them. Put one aside and discard the others.

2. Construct the Loyalty Deck as normal, however, in place of the Sympathiser card, place the card you randomly determined in step 1.

3. During various stages of play, there could be anywhere from zero to three cylons in play... You just don't know! The players' own paranoia becomes as much an enemy as the actual cylons that may (or may not) be at work against them.

4. In a 4 player game, when 1 cylon has revealed, if any other player has a "You Are A Cylon", they obey the following rules. In a 6 player game, when 2 cylons have revealed, if any other player has a "You Are A Cylon" card, they also must follow these rules;

4.1 If you are ever brigged, you immediately reveal: discard down to 3 cards and move to the Resurrection Ship.

4.2 When you reveal (either forcibly or through choice), you do NOT receive a Super Crisis card.

4.3 You may not activate the "Cylon Fleet" location.