I'm going to take this list to a Store Championship:

Captain Oicunn (42)
Ruthlessness (3)
Rebel Captive (3)
Ysanne Isard (4)
Mara Jade (3)
Tactical Jammer (1)

"Echo" (30)
Lone Wolf (2)
Sensor Jammer (4)
Recon Specialist (3)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Total: 99

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The basic idea is to protect Echo as much as possible, and allow her to take potshots from a distance, while Oicunn gets mean at range1. Echo should either be at range 3 of Oicunn or behind him, to get reroll/an extra dice.

Here are my upgrade/ability choices, explained:

• Oicunn, because he's a low PS (good for blocking) large ship, high maneuvrability, automatic damage ability. Why block with Oicunn you say? Because it gives you an action, and the possibility of using the ability on the next turn, when the opponent is stressed. There is a possibility that they won't be able to escape Oicunn's grip with green maneuvers, so they'll have to keep the stress, both of you being without modifiers. I consider this good. Oicunn also has area denial for all high-agility, low HP ships. I've killed off Phantoms with him. That's the best part, you don't have to use his ability, the threat is enough to cut off some paths
• Ruthlessness is something you guys might not agree with, but I think it's better than Predator in this case. It's not likely to trigger against my phantom (because I'm careful), but I got it to trigger a lot of times even against lists like Han + Dash. It's also a threat and a source of automatic damage, which I love.
• Rebel captive - Echo is very sneaky, so the natural target for many ships will be the decimator. This shuts down any PtL on high-PS ships, at any range. PtL Han, Mad Dash, Soontir, etc. The least affected are Soontir and Dash with Kyle, but both of them lose an action out of 3, so it's still something.
• Mara Jade - Rebel captive is a source of extra stress, but what happens when you're faced with many ships? Mara Jade stresses all of those. Mara Jade only overlaps with Rebel Captive, but the result is worth it. More often than not, the entire opposing force will be stressed. There are also area control elements, Phantoms with ACD won't like it too much (try getting a good attack position with Whisper with only 2-banks)
• Ysanne - With two ships on the table, this is a fighting chance for the endgame, against another Decimator, or Han, phantom or a small number of ships.
• Tactical Jammer - Protecting Echo, even while uncloaked.
• Lone Wolf - This is both for the endgame and for situations where you are at range 3 of the Decimator but not protected by tactical jammer (which almost can't happen anyway).
• Recon Specialist - A must if you want to keep offensive capabilities while being attacked
• Sensor Jammer - This is the core of the list - This is the reason for all the stress and for Oicunn. If they can only escape Oicunn with a non-green maneuver, they will be stressed. With Echo you can plan for their green maneuvers, if they do a white, then you're almost guaranteed 1 less attack dice.
• ACD - I'm almost tempted to say this isn't an auto-include in this list, because with this setup Echo is very defensible while uncloaked, but it's still amazing for repositioning, remaining in the same spot, disengaging etc.

In my playtesting this list is super annoying to fly against, basically reduces drastically what the opponent can do at each turn. That being said, there are lists/upgrades which should do well against it.

• Kyle Katarn - this is the biggest threat when on Dash /w HLC, because it means he gets 4dice with focus on my Echo with Tactical Jammer, 4v3 with focus, which is more damage than I would like. Even if I block with Oicunn, he gets that focus.
• Han + Dash - High-PS firepower turrets, but if Outrider is present not many upgrades fit so I have increased chances to win when I end up 1on1 with the decimator vs a YT.
• 3+ high-PS ships - it is reduced to a game of numbers, I can't protect Echo against that many, unless I selectively engage. 3+ ships also means low HP, so Oicunn will be more dangerous.

All games with this list are extremely positional, but I like it that way.

* What do you guys think of the list?

* How often does Kyle appear in the current meta? (both as crew and as pilot)

* Any ideas for a name? Echo's bodyguard... ?

I like it. Do you have a lot of experience with echo? She might turn out to be your biggest challenge because like you said, its all positional

I consider Echo to be the ship I like to fly. Won a Regional with it, took 5th in a National. I have used Echolocation and random walks around asteroids ad nauseam. And yet this list is still challenging to fly, sometimes I have to stay behind Oicunn with a decloak maneuver, sometimes without, sometimes I'll duck behind an asteroid, sometimes I'll go for the range 1 shots if I know I can keep my opponent without a focus.

I find it incredibly fun.

I am not a fan of echo without vet instincts. I don't like my phantoms being uncloaked for extended periods of time

At this point VI would help only against PtL Dash and Chiraneau, of the more commonly-used pilots. When you're flying Echo you're already far behind in PS bid... unless you Decoy... hey... wait a second ...

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (46)
Rebel Captive (3)
Ysanne Isard (4)
Mara Jade (3)
Tactical Jammer (1)

"Echo" (30)
Decoy (2)
Sensor Jammer (4)
Recon Specialist (3)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Chiri moves at PS8, so he blocks everything at PS9 and beyond, including PS8 if he has initiative, Echo shoots at PS8. Interesting. Then there's a choice between having VI on Chiri, Tactical Jammer or just leaving the point for Initiative. The disadvantage is that Echo has to move before Chiri, which doesn't help moving "in formation" behind the decimator at all. Chiri won't be able to block lower-PS pilots as well (not that Oicun was *that* low), and now there's no automatic damage built into the list at all. It's an interesting variation, not sure it's gonna fly.

Decoy will limit where you can go with Echo as it's range dependent. Seems a waste to spend two points on that when you can spend one on VI and use it wherever you are on the board.

Decoy will limit where you can go with Echo as it's range dependent. Seems a waste to spend two points on that when you can spend one on VI and use it wherever you are on the board.

In my mind, PS-bidding is only worth it if you win it. VI gets you up to 8, which is meh. Decoy + VI gets you up to 10, where the interesting stuff starts to happen. Suddenly Whisper has no way of catching up, Han needs VI (not going to see much of that). Echo is also the kind of pilot that can fly into range 2 when she wants to, albeit a bit hindered by the fact that she moves first.

In that respect, I can put VI on Echo and Tactical Jammer on Chiri, which leaves them at the same PS, making it easier to move. I can also spend an additional point for Determination, because I'm not sure I need initiative at PS8.

Sorry chilligan, if you look at the list you posted there's no VI on Chiri, so I was assuming you were swapping Echo's PS6 with Chiri's PS 8.

At this point VI would help only against PtL Dash and Chiraneau, of the more commonly-used pilots. When you're flying Echo you're already far behind in PS bid... unless you Decoy... hey... wait a second ...

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (46)
Rebel Captive (3)
Ysanne Isard (4)
Mara Jade (3)
Tactical Jammer (1)

"Echo" (30)
Decoy (2)
Sensor Jammer (4)
Recon Specialist (3)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Total: 100

It's not about the PS bid it's about spending double points on something not quite as useful!

In that respect, I can put VI on Echo and Tactical Jammer on Chiri, which leaves them at the same PS, making it easier to move. I can also spend an additional point for Determination, because I'm not sure I need initiative at PS8.

This I agree with though. Having your two ships moving/shooting at the same time gives you lots of flexibility!

Sorry chilligan, if you look at the list you posted there's no VI on Chiri, so I was assuming you were swapping Echo's PS6 with Chiri's PS 8.

No problem, I was just brainstorming, although there was just on list posted, the variants had VI, or tactical jammer, or 1pt for initiative. But I did miss the fact that VI was simply better than Decoy if Chiri didn't have PS10 because I was trying to juggle all 3 variants in my head.

Know the feeling mate! I've got two variations on a list I'm planing to take to an upcoming tournament... Whenever I shut my eyes I can see Commander Kenkirk's and Captian Oicunn's cards floating around!

Finally settled on this list:

"Echo" (30)
Veteran Instincts (1) Decoy (2)
Sensor Jammer (4)
Recon Specialist (3)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (46)
Decoy (2) Veteran Instincts (1)
Ysanne Isard (4)
Rebel Captive (3)
Mara Jade (3)

Total: 100

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List was pretty good, games were a total disaster!

Went 2/3, placed 15/26, which is horrible.

First game I lost, Ysanne could only be used for one round! Dash +Corran was at maximum damage, Corran double-tapped Chiraneau for 8 damage, Dash did 4 damage twice (even with Ysanne, he had one critical from a reroll which was a Direct Hit!). Dash was also rolling crazy greens, and Echo medium-to-low reds. Result is that I couldn't kill anything, lol, Dash stayed at 1HP.

Second game I lost, Chiraneau took first hull damage as a crit. PS0!!!!! Finished as a 2hull vs 1hull Decimator, total dice game.

My third loss was also the final game. Han + VI. Was too tired to play properly, had a range 1 shot on Corran with no modifiers while also blocking Han, which is ideal, BUT I was 1mm on an asteroid. *almost* good play.

Closing thoughts are that PS10 Phantom is cool as long as you can manage it, but your Decimator might die prematurely. Might have to switch to Whisper, despite my love for Echo. Also, Chiraneau's ability will trigger very rarely and you will be blocked often. I like Oicunn better. Perhaps I'll move to Oicunn + Whisper for the next tournament.

edit: switched up the upgrades by mistake

With Veteran Instincts on Echo aren't both ships running at PS8? Where are you using Decoy?

With Veteran Instincts on Echo aren't both ships running at PS8? Where are you using Decoy?

Sorry, got mixed up. Decoy on Echo, VI on Chiraneau.

I'm still not sold on the whole Decoy aspect. Keeping Echo within range of Chiraneau could seriously limit your movement options - Echo excels at being unpredictable. By tying her to the Decimator your removing some (not all) of what makes her special. Personally, I'd either drop Decoy entirely and put VI on Echo and Determination on the Rear Admiral. Or Id drop the Sensor Jammer and replace it with FCS and replace Mara Jade with a Gunner.

"Echo" (30)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire Control System (2)
Recon Specialist (3)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (46)
Determination (1)
Ysanne Isard (4)
Rebel Captive (3)
Gunner (5)

Total: 99

Also leaves you at 99pts for a (small) initiative bid!

Don't forget that the Decimator is quite a large ship, range 2 is quite large and so it's more of a "let's leep Chiraneau in Echo's general area" than an Echo problem. Echo is unpredictable because you can attack forward, but also "turn around" 135 degrees, as well as sidestep to keep her position. Most of those options keep you in the same area, but with a very diverse pallete of orientations and almost any position.

If I drop Decoy I might as well drop Chiraneau altogether and go for Oicunn, as I like his ability a lot more. Chiraneau's ability is incredibly frustrating because it doesn't trigger as often as I would like. It doesn't "feel" like almost a focus.

I've not used Chiraneau yet as I'm running my Decimator with a Firespray and t 46pts he's just a little too expensive. I too like Oicunn, though I'm wary of his ability making me change how I fly (pulling me into areas I don't want to be as I've tried to ram an opponent). I tend to use his ability as sparingly as possible. I have Predator on him most of the time (Gunner is too expensive and I find it doesn't trigger often enough to warrant the cost). I'm looking at Ruthlessness at the moment as a possible replacement, three attack dice for shooting, possible extra damage for Ruthlessness and extra damage for ramming. Think it might be a bit too situational to be cost effective though!