from france

i was reading again disciples of the dark gods in particular the npc of the various sects. one of then temple guard surprise me. a very good equipement no mater the choices of weapons and the best quality carapace armour. so i thougt it s normal it s a elite troop who guard the temple. then i read again his profiles and... 35 ws 35 bs a prfiles soon get by pcs. so what do we have here? a walking christmas trees full of gift.

if a heretic temple can give his retainer so much equipement why the inquisition just equipe them with a swiss army knife? (yes in know it 's a exageration).

-so first option. npcs are walking christmas trees only here to be looted without repercussion

-second option npcs are " " " only here to be looted with repercussion like new intriques enemies npc...

-third option npcs " " " " " " " " but the equipement is useless or confiscated by the inquisition.

- other option?

i talk here just about npc not not npc with importance like the mots wanted or character fom stories.

they must be a better option than the three previous one. what do you think ?

You would be refering to the Temple Tendency, correct? The Temple Tendency is one of the most powerful and inflential cults in the Imperium never mind the Calixis sector and is made up of very wealthy individuals who would find it damaging to be publically associated with it and so when it comes to people to protect their secrets they give them the best equiptment for the job. They pick people for their loyalty first and skill second and so while they may be compitent as well thier main virtue is loyalty.

The Inquisition roots out heresies from the Imperium's population it needs secrecy, stealth and compitance to achieve its goals as well as a certain amount of self reliance and thus it chooses talented people or people with potential and tries to make them blend in with their surroundings thus not equiping them with the best of equiptment at the start to help them hide amongst the populace. There is also the problem of corruption which is very real threat to an Inquisitor and so having your acolytes having a fairly short life span isn't usually as much as a problem as it reduces the chance for them to survive and be corrupted.

If you dont want players looting things like that you just keep them in a high stress situation where stopping is just likely to get you shot. Also how easy do you think it is to remove a full suit of carapace armour from a dead body, its going to take you a while, weapons are easier because you can just pick them up but then again if they are taking them they probably need them.

You should also think about other things like how many of an NPC are they likely to encounter, and will the NPC's use smart tactics, mediocre stats can be overcome with a good use of teamwork and good equiptment. If the PC's have good stats and talents but mediocre equiptment and then find themselves outnumbered by those guys using good teamwork and making use of cover then they are going to find it hard to win that fight especially since the PC's are unlikely to be purely combat characters.

Sure if the NPC's run around like headless chickens standing in the open on thier own and firing thier weapons at the hardest targets then they will die but if they act smart they might just wipe them all out.

Kaihlik

In that specific example, yes he has alot of "goodies". So would the Vatican. So in that case-yes.

Hunting down a pack of dregs in a hive bottom to bring the Emporers Justice to a Verminspeaker- no

As pointed out byKaihlik its up to the GM. And the task at hand. Also take note that a bolter or even las-cannon is worth zilch when out of ammo on a feudal/feral world and lightyears away from the nearest Space Walmart.

I rarely let my pcs loot as it is if they want something in particulare (i.e. a chainsword of best quality) ill make a gaming session just for them and the group (i.e. going to hive ruins of an ancient commisar) or something along those lines. I give them ammo and if thier armour is broke they repair it (i decide a price depending on severity) as well as weapons and if they want carapace i make them pay a little more to have it disguised into their regular clothes to allow them to walk around without having people stare.

I hate looting, which I view as totally not in genre. In my games (however few there may be), this stuff is confiscated by the =I= as evidence, just as in real life FBI agents don't get to keep the mafia's stuff.

Looting makes perfect sense imo.. Lets see you make what on average 100 thrones a month you are very rarely under direct supervision and you need the gear to better your crew.. Now say its a zeno weapon ie.. eldar shuriken Hell let um have it.. But how they gunna get ammo? Armor from a dead guy? what are the chances its gunna fit? thus making it poor quality armor. It all balances its self out.

I assume it its not only about temple tendency, but equipment in general. At some points you might wonder why the pc are handed rather meager fund while they are up to save the day.

My solution:
I case of equipment I tend to hand most things that can gather rather by money or having an =I= orderin it handed (if he wants to risk the attention this brings to the mission!). The only "hurdle" I impose is that the pc/players need to explain why/what for they are needing the equipment.

bogi_khaosa said:

I just gotta ask; what do they need the evidence for?

I actually see them more as the fictional type CIA special op's agents deep into hostile territory. They're not there to bring someone to justice or hold a trial for them. They're not there to arrest anyone (unless they're there to "black-bag" someone for "information retrieval"... ah movies) or to uphold the justice system and do things by the book (that's the Arbiters job after all). They're also not meant to engage the enemy whole-sale (that would be the guard and PDF's job). They're there to spy, gather intellegance for police or military action, and, sometimes, engage the enemy when needed. They don't get a lot of support from home base as they're usually pretty far from it. They have to use the resources at their immediate disposal and if that resource is that guy's gun and armour over there, or that nobles estate and treasury, then so be it, as long as the job gets done... and if they manage to seize a substantial amount of resources from the heretics, it's usually flipped and used to fund their next investigation.

I don't worry about little things like personal equipment. Easy come easy go as the saying goes. Sometimes they are strapped and counting every bullet, other times, they have millions of thrones at their disposal and the best armories open wide for them to use as a candy store. They've had power weapons in their possession only to lose them when the building collapsed, cogitators with rare info on them that get blasted in explosions, all their weapons taken from their now unlocked room's only to restock in an armory before the complex goes completely to hell. One has had a plasma gun for quite some time but still hasn't even taken it out of their foot locker except to ogle it -this is partially out of fear of it getting damaged but mostly because they don't have the talent to shoot it yet. They currently have a best quality bolt gun with some blessed rounds sitting in a crate on their Lander (that they conveniently never returned to the medicae tower they took it from) that they have yet to take out or use because of the "hey, I got mad money and like to kill things" kind of attention it draws.

Graver said:

Only the Inquisition knows!

My pc's only loot the cool stuff, sometimes ammo if they need it.
They have a very easy interrogator as their supervisor at the moment, this will change shortly.

The Guardsman looted a Cadance Spectre last timeand he found a broken boltpistol a while back

The Assassin keeps the blades of her advisaries as keepsakes

The Techpriest loots cool techno stuff

They do not loot stuf to sell....so I'm alright with it...

bogi_khaosa said:

Curse you! Your clever retort wins you this round, but, mark my words, I'll be back and I'll be ready for such clever maneuvers next time!

Graver said:

Why quistion the Holy Inquisition, are you a heretic infiltrator acolyte?

It is not looting. It is the reappopriation of materials for the betterment of the Imperium of Man.

-=Brother Praetus=-

My players always seem to loot any ammunition the corpse had at the time, it's bad quality and gives the gun using the ammo the unreliable quality while it's in use. Also, sometimes, if a player has made it clear they're searching for a certain piece of equipment, the next cult magi or gang lord they face...well, s/he may just have said item. If the PC's beat s/he, they can have it But y'know.....sometimes cult magi just can't resist scribbling chaotic symbols onto their li'l pop guns...And if the PC still wants it...by all means, they can have it But they better be prepared for unwanted attention

In the specific case in question, that of a guard for the Temple Tendency, there seems good reason from the write-up to assume that the equipment may be not only high quality but also ancient, decorated in accordance with secretive traditions, and intended for ceremonial as well as practical use. It is entirely possible to interpret it all as being unusual and hard to conceal, almost bound to attract attention if sold (prompting some very awkward questions from their boss), and highly distinctive, making it hard to mingle with the crowds whilst carrying it. As well as this, it is likely emblazoned with symbols and iconography which, whilst appearing entirely orthodox to most people, will mark the bearers out as dangerous heretics to those in the know (a group that includes knowledgeable ecclesiarchy or SOB types and anyone you fancy from the Inquisition). So there may be good reasons why the PCs will find it a mixed blessing.

The Philosophy which makes it necessary, that Acolythes must pay their missions from their own income is one i could not understand. because it made no sense for me that an Inquisitor will criplle his teams.

All this comparison with the FBI and stuff is good, but also misses an important point. Many of these enemies are foul xenos and condemmed heretics, and some even touched by the Ruinous Powers. In many cases they wouldnt be allowed to loot, because of the ritual pollution that comes with handling corrupted and heretical equipment. Maybe it is technically just another gun or armour suit in rule terms, but in 'game reality' it is an object of evil and corruption. Even to touch an enemy item will cause its machine spirit to infect the bearer, which will in turn infect their other, otherwise safe, equipment with the taint.

These are interesting and superstitious times our characters live in. One can be far too cold and logical about how people would view this world. They do not have the luxury of a book with a set list of tiems and avalabilities and prices. Each of them has its own unique soul, and is influenced by the purity or impurity of those that use it.

Which brings me to the idea that - in the event of a pc finding something they really want among the corupted and cursed spoils, they might be given the opportunity to try and clense the device through a grueling process involving lengthy fasting, sleepless days of nothing but prayer, utilization of sacred oils, inscription of holy runes, and the expunging of any markings on the item dealing with chaos or heretical ideas. As GM you would need to stress how arduous the process is and that it is a rare honor to be given the opportunity to commit such an act - only granted to the pc this once do to his faithful service to the Emperor of Man, Glorious Be His Strength and Wisdom.

All other items would be confiscated by the Inquisition, thier fate unknowable to the players.

Another idea would be to pass it on to the AdMech and/or Ministorum priests for them to bless and purify, necessitating some time and a test to see if it passes the cleansing (kind of like an availability for looted items). There may be actions the player can undertake that improve (or mistakes they make which decrease) the chances of success.

I would be more inclined to have a player do it because: a) It drives home how much must go into making just one "contaminated" object usable again; and b) It requires time and effort on the part of the player. The last thing you want is for players to think they can gather a heap of loot then just pass it on to the Ministorum for cleansing - ready and piping hot by the time they're gearing up for their next adventure.

warpdancer said:

If you have 100 agents working in 10 different cells, 8 of which are considered "expendible", keeping them all supplied and equipped would be a full time job in itself.

An inquisitor is supposed to get by on his wit first, and then rely on the rosette. If an acolyte can't do this, he isn't inquisitor material.

Also, as an aside, the PCs are "touched by the Emperor", and not even considered normal "acolyte" teams. This isn't obvious to the Inquisitor, at first at least, but until they distinguish themselves they're just cannon fodder.

TheFlatline said:

An inquisitor is supposed to get by on his wit first,

Ok then go o0n your writ alone, this is the consequence of your argument.

If an acolyte can't do this, he isn't inquisitor material.

Tell me one Inmquisitor who fit this standard from Jaq Draco to Eisenhorn i remember not one.

themselves they're just cannon fodder

and thherefore should be doomed to fail, set to fail by the Inquisitor

So every Inquisitor is an heretic!

to fail in the service of the empereor is the greatest of all Sins

Leman Russ

.

I'm going to have to agree with Flatline on this one - especially because, Warp, your argument didn't make any sense.

Eisenhorn did get by without flashing his Rosette every ten minutes - but, of course, he's an inquisitor and the readers want to see him put the smack down on pompous jackasses, so eventually he had to pull it out and swing his weight around.

Characters do receive a paycheck for doing their job and between that and what they manage to gather in the field it should be enough. Flat's right, if they are so incompetant that they need to suck funds from the Inquisition at every turn and are incapable of doing anything by themselves, then they are a liability.

The alcolytes are semi-autonimous agents in enemy territory - they can't expect daddy to hold their hands.

Jack of Tears said:

Eisenhorn operated with a ship, a retinue of acolythes and did a few times recruit imperial armed forces for his missions, from Naval Security to imperial Guard, not to speak from other Inquisitors.

Which paycheck?

Since when do you finance your job with your paycheck.

I consider an Inquisitor incompetent who send his acolythes, which acolythes, without the funds to fulfill their mission

look at

Rejoice for you are true and then tell me how any non-noble acolythe should manage the funds necessary for this mission.

How would a non-noble acolyte manage the funds for such a mission? Why, that acolyte needs to get in touch with his noble contacts. If he has none, the inquisitor, if notified about this op, should put the non-noble acolyte in contact with one of his noble acolytes or contacts for them to fund the mission. It's really quite simple ;-)