Good people,

I was admiring some of the B-Wing repaints in our new 'Conversions and Repaints' sub forum (Thank you FFG!) and I noticed that the cockpits of the ships seem to be in various positions.

I have 2 questions:

1. My understanding of the ship design was that when it was in docking/cruising mode is lay horizontal with it's wings retracted. When it was in battle mode, S-Foils in attack position or whatever it is you say for a B-Wing it assumes a t shape with the cockpit at the top. This was certainly the case in the X-wing games. Is this understanding correct .. or am I completely mistaken?

2. If my understanding is correct, what is the general consensus on altering the position of the cockpit and therefore the canonical design of the ship? Are we fans of the change or do we prefer to keep it 'legitimate'?

I for one always thought it looked cooler in a horizontal position. o-|----

1. That it's correct

2. I don't like the idea of a rotating cockpit. It might be canon, but there's no need for it and as a pilot, it would be possible to lose track of where the bulk of your ship was when performing maneuvers. In a fixed cockpit, the wings are always to your left, right, whatever bit if the cockpit is rotating then you'd have to keep checking and who wants a distracted pilot? Maybe that's why it's such a bad dial, the pilot has to look at his, wings before banking?

The fiction talks about the hull spinning all over, which was somehow an advantage. I like the conversions, but all of my B's are unmodified.

Of course, there's this image, which is an official LFL image from way back in the day:

And that LFL image is based off this concept art:



The cockpit's mounted on a rotor and can rotate to any position. B-wings usually fly horizontal as above or vertical as the minis.

We don't actually see much of the B-Wing in ROTJ. Originally, the rotating cockpit may have been used strictly for adjusting between landing/cruising modes and combat modes, rather than constantly moving the bulk of the ship around the cockpit for a combat advantage.

I don't think the designers put all that much thought into it. Lucas probably just liked the look of the concept art and suggested that the cockpit could rotate, and the design went off to the model makers.

The cockpit design was aswell canonised in Star Wars Insider 149 and 150 with Blade Squadron, and was the first piece that was of new canon besides the movies and the Clone Wars.

The fiction talks about the hull spinning all over, which was somehow an advantage. I like the conversions, but all of my B's are unmodified.

I imagine it has to do with g-forces. Being able to whip the ship around all over the place with minimal effect on the pilot should allow them to perform more impressive maneuvers than other ships.

I thought everything in star wars had artificial gravity?

See, my problem is that there is no "up" in space. There's no vertical or horizontal. Orientation is meaningless in a space battle: a fact that no movie seems to realize. The B-wing should pretty much never rotate because it doesn't make any sense

I always thought the ship rotated relative to the cockpit so the pilot could always keep his orientation consistent (whether to a local planet or other solar body, or to a command ship, or something). Plus then when turning, having the cockpit always on the inside of the turn (be it pitch or yaw) would make the guns whip around faster while the pilot didn't suffer as much intertia, inertial dampeners notwithstanding.

You suffer the same amount of force mo matter what direction you're facing, it's only dependant on how close you are to the center of the turn because (and this also addresses the "whip guns around faster thing) the B wing is a solid. The edges move faster than the center because they're fixed in position relative to each other. It's like a record, the outside and the inside make the same amount of rotations but points on the outside have to travel faster than points on the interior.

You suffer the same amount of force mo matter what direction you're facing, it's only dependant on how close you are to the center of the turn because (and this also addresses the "whip guns around faster thing) the B wing is a solid. The edges move faster than the center because they're fixed in position relative to each other. It's like a record, the outside and the inside make the same amount of rotations but points on the outside have to travel faster than points on the interior.

That's probably one of my favorite Calvin and Hobbes strips too haha.

But yes, the force on the pilot would be lessened if, for example, the ship body is horizontal to the cockpit like the pictures above, and the pilot manipulates the ship to yaw to port, swinging the guns around in front of where he had been facing. The force on the ship is consistent with any other turn, but the pilot is moving less, relative to the maneuver, than the guns on the end; like you said, two different speeds on the same object.

I always thought that's what the pilot was supposed to do for any significant pitch or yaw adjustment, and why they were so difficult to fly.

The design of the B-wing is quite frankly rather stupid, but on the other hand that is a problem that most Star Wars ships share with the B-wing. Just forget all about realism and real world physics, the Star Wars universe doesn't give a toss about that. The rule of cool on the other hand is king.

IIRCC the race that developed the B-Wing lived in an asteroid belt and all their ships did this to avoid collisions with small rocks. The pilot had nothing to do with this rotation it was controlled by automatic sensors. Sorta like adapted cruise control on cars today.

IIRCC the race that developed the B-Wing lived in an asteroid belt and all their ships did this to avoid collisions with small rocks. The pilot had nothing to do with this rotation it was controlled by automatic sensors. Sorta like adapted cruise control on cars today.

That's pretty neat! Thanks for the heads-up.

That makes it even worse!

The more obsticles there are the more static you'd need it so that you can predict what path you could take without the computer deciding to roll your hull and muck it all up.

Well, I for one will stand up for the Bwing as it is my favorite ship.

See, my problem is that there is no "up" in space. There's no vertical or horizontal. Orientation is meaningless in a space battle: a fact that no movie seems to realize. The B-wing should pretty much never rotate because it doesn't make any sense

But your relation to everything else constantly changes. So orientation is very meaningful.

Plus with or without gravity the pilot would suffer varying g-forces depending on whatever manuever it was doing.

Do I know anything about physics, no! But the B wing still looks awesome, even if rotating around would have no real world purpose... Its still freakin awesome!

I never saw the B-Wing's body rotating around the cockpit for any purpose. My perception is that (like the X-Wing's S-foils) there are two positions: horizontal and vertical, cruise and attack. I also like to think that the pilot can select to fly horizontally or vertically (in relation to the cockpit) when in 'battle mode'

I'd like to raise another point about its design; its guns. Irrespective of the ships's position, its guns would only converge in front of the pilot if the pilot was constantly adjusting their angles (to converge at a specific distance in front of him/her). Most other SW fighters have their lasers placed equidistnat from the pilot. The B-Wing pilot would either have to adjust the laser angle throughout the battle OR learn to fire at objects slightly off centre to their position.

Do not apply logic to this. Lucas was very much in a "how many toys can we sell" state of mind when he approved these things. Star Wars is full of after-the-fact justifications for things that were originally chosen solely for their appearance.

Star Wars space battles make no sense at all. You don't need a Death Star to destroy a planet if you can propel things faster than the speed of light. Seriously, the rotating cockpit of the B-Wing is among the more sensible things in this grand space fantasy setting of freakin' laser swords and wizards.

I always assumed (and played with it as a kid as such) that the rotating body around the cockpit had to do with creating a larger firing circumference. Which would equate to more damage or chance of damage to the enemy. Sort of a "spiral death blossom" effect.

I never saw the B-Wing's body rotating around the cockpit for any purpose. My perception is that (like the X-Wing's S-foils) there are two positions: horizontal and vertical, cruise and attack. I also like to think that the pilot can select to fly horizontally or vertically (in relation to the cockpit) when in 'battle mode'

I'd like to raise another point about its design; its guns. Irrespective of the ships's position, its guns would only converge in front of the pilot if the pilot was constantly adjusting their angles (to converge at a specific distance in front of him/her). Most other SW fighters have their lasers placed equidistnat from the pilot. The B-Wing pilot would either have to adjust the laser angle throughout the battle OR learn to fire at objects slightly off centre to their position.

I actually know this one! In one of the X-Wing novels, and maybe even some of the other books, they talk about dialing in a convergence point while calibrating their ships; they pick a specific point of distance where all four X-Wing lasers converge in front of the ship, so the pilot knows roughly where each bolt is headed and how to lead each wing in a dogfight depending on where the opponent is going. In the flight sims, something similar happens! I forget what the example was, probably a thousand meters or something.

Between pilot calibration and what I assume is a competent targeting computer, the B-Wing pilot would absolutely expect all the shots to come from off-center relative to the cockpit, and would still know where each bolt would wind up.

Do not apply logic to this. Lucas was very much in a "how many toys can we sell" state of mind when he approved these things. Star Wars is full of after-the-fact justifications for things that were originally chosen solely for their appearance.

Star Wars space battles make no sense at all. You don't need a Death Star to destroy a planet if you can propel things faster than the speed of light. Seriously, the rotating cockpit of the B-Wing is among the more sensible things in this grand space fantasy setting of freakin' laser swords and wizards.

Boy, it sure is a good thing some authors with entry-level physics knowledge have since shoehorned in some plausible explanations for half of it, or your comment would've made me feel silly!

In one of the novels, Wedge commented that the fact that the cockpit stayed stationary made him feel more like he was driving a truck. I'm willing to take his word for it.

IIRCC the race that developed the B-Wing lived in an asteroid belt and all their ships did this to avoid collisions with small rocks. The pilot had nothing to do with this rotation it was controlled by automatic sensors. Sorta like adapted cruise control on cars today.

It was the Mon Cal that came up with the B-wing design, admiral Ackbar being the head of the project.

The Mon Cal are aquatic so it makes sense to have a cockpit that can be set to a predetermined horizon, its important for an undersea vessel to know where the surface is at all times.

This design is also fairly logical in space too and makes the B-wing one of the best star wars designs for real world physics, the pilot needs to be at the center of gravity during a turn and the B-wings design supports this design requirement

The cockpit doesn't rotate, the ship rotates around the cockpit.

No atmosphere in space so no drag/lift to deal with so no need to factor that into ship design, hence the Borg Cube. I surmise the B-wing rotation to the "t" in attack mode is more practical in that it clears lines of sight. Flying it on its side in attack mode blocks a huge portion of sight to the left or right VS directly below the cockpit.

Also I never thought of something as I read a few replies above in there not really being a reason to build a Deathstar when you already have things moving at, or in the case of the Falcon's boasted .5 past, light speed. Imagine a Star Destroyer, of which the Empire has more than a few, smashing into a planet at light speed. I assume that might be akin to the doomsday asteroid theory no? Destroying a planet's surface to some degree but leaving in possibly intact to be terra formed or used as a natural resource.