Sorry for the obscure title - not.

First off, thanks to Hail-Raise-Zhar for the idea and his support.

Without any further ado, here we go:

There are ways with which to defeat the ancient one while he is awakening and/or when he has already awakened without doing him harm . I have read the ancient scriptures, and through my perusal of the dread Uralte Schrecken and the soul-blasting Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus I have freed my mind from the blessed shield of ignorance which men mistake for healthy minds. Here is what I found:

1.) One could, in theory, wait until the ancient one has awakened and use Silas Marsh's personal story to sacrifice oneself to gain a sixth seal during final combat, wasting away to the madness of the sea so that humanity can eke out a few more centuries...decades...or however long it still has before the final oblivion.

2.) Similarly, as one is never removed from the location one is in, one could theoretically sacrifice the last few few clue tokens to complete the Mission "For the Greater Good", winning the game, again, through devourment of the self!

3.) If in the correct location, "Walking the Ley Lines" could similarly prevent the dark one from manifesting, if the requisite number of gate trophies are present when one performs the final sacrifice.

4.) One could prevent Eihort's entry into our realm if the final brood token that slays you both awakens hima nd seals the sixth gate. A noble, yet futile gesture.

5.) If Mandy Thompson were to gain the fifth clue token needed for her to activate her personal story card while the sixth Deep One Rising Token is placed, she can also perform the sixth seal required to seale ye ancient abomination from the land of the living.

6.) Anyone during the Arkham Encounters phase could, when the final gate, the last corruption or a monster/gate that cannot be drawn is there, read the De Vermiis Mysteriis and close the last open gate, if the gate that just appeared would satisfy that winning condition.*

7.) If Akachi Onyele, great descendant of a most dreadful witch, should be present when an encounter opens the final gate, causes the last corruption or calls upon a monster/gate that cannot be drawn, she could use the passages in the De Vermiis Mysteriis to seal the final gate necessary for denying the things from the outer dark.*

*If Eihort be the Ancient One, then one can also perform these victories through casting a Bind Monster card that slays a cultist, then subsequently exploding due to the Brood Marker gained; similarly, slaying a cultist of Yig thusly can be a situation where one uses the De Vermiis in this manner. Also, if Rhan-Tegoth be the Ancient One and a Cultist is drawn from the cup that awakens him, one may performt his feat. Or if Glaaki is awakened through the fifth of her Servants appearing during the encounters phase. Or in general if the Terror Level were to rise too high during this phase, awakening the ancient one. Or Yig awakening due to an unfortunate stumble into Lost in Time and Space. I.e., if the Ancient One somehow awakens during the Arkham Encounters Phase, one may use the De Vermiis to perform those two feats.

However, ye best chances lie not in saving Humanity. If one really wishes to succeed, one needs to call upon that dread power from beyond, embracing it with all one's heart and soul!

8.) One could theoretically Awaken Glaaki with the final sacrifice required by Joining the Winning Team - one gets to usher in one's master's arrival to the pitiful screams of one's former, foolish allies!

9.) However, even other ancients can be assuaded to not devour thee if you present them with the correct sacrifice. When already Lost in Time and Space, and ye Master doth appear, he will try to DEVOUR you in his ravenous hunger. Yet, this fate can be averted by presenting him with ye MESENGER, allowing ye to live long enough to perform the finale sacrifice!

10.) Especially in ye case of averting the wrath of the great serpent...IÄH YIG! AYEE, AYEE...then mayest ye awaken him by becoming LOST IN TIME AND SPACE, then presenting him with thy MESSENGER to prevent him from destroying you with his endless wrathhhhh...giving you time to shed your skin and join his blessed brood through the final sacrifice! MWaah...ahhaaahahaaaa...AHAAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!

But....are these all the ways in which one may do these things...I must be prepared...the hour draws near....I urge ye, help this faithful servant!!!

...

(Disclaimer: The OP wished for us to make the following statements, but was...otherwise indisposed to make them of his own accord:

- Some of these rule examples involve three lesser known facts: When the ancient one awakens, you are never removed from your current location/other world/etc.. Also, When two things happen at once, one is allowed to choose the order of events that take place. Finally, one immediatley wins when six seals are on the table, regardless of other things happening at the moment. So be careful before dismissing these examples!

- The OP is aware that various Doom Token removal abilities can theoretically destroy the ancient one while awakening. These have been left out on purpose.

- The OP wishes for you to come up with more examples that could produce a similar effect - i.e., winning the game either at the same time as the ancient one awakens OR when he is already awake. Epic Battle cards that cause the investigators to win, on their own, DO NOT COUNT!

- The OP may need some recovery time before responding to posts. He appologizes for the inconvenience.

- The OP also wishes to ask the user by the name of "Dam" whether this answers his previous question about the item mentioned in the title of this post.

That is all. Good day, dear reader.)

Oboy, and *I* though I was and AH nut.

I have to respectfully disagree with everything involving the De Vermiis Mysteriis here. Although it does say "Arkham Encounter", it is obviously meant to be read in the movement phase. Otherwise, you wouldn't have any movement points to read it.

Even if you could read it in the Encounter Phase, the AO awakens immediately if certain conditions are satisfied. The current phase ends immediately, with no opportunity of using any item or ability appropriate to that phase. You can't interrupt an encounter in the middle with any actions (see the ruling about Duke for proof) so once the active player could read the book, the AO has already awakened and the game proceeded to the first Upkeep of the Final Battle.

Also, correct me if I misunderstood you, but I seriously doubt that you can use items at all if it is not your turn.

What Duke ruling? I can't find it in the Kevin answer thread. Is it something in the FAQ?

I don't know of anything which requires you to use items/abilities in your own turn, aside from those where you can only use them by forfeiting things you have in a certain phase, or otherwise specified. If that were the case, you could never use things which prevent damage to others in their turn, for example.

Some ancient ones make you use movement points despite there being no movement phase (Ghatanothoa).

As for the timing problem in general in this instance, it is overall problematic - I agree - but I think it is not so easily dismissed. Say you have an abillity to choose between two encounter cards, and then tell your buddy with the tome to read it at the same time as the gate is resolved. This seems legal, since we get a choice between two events, effectively creating an artificial pause. But is it really a pause in game terms? If not, why? If yes, why would this be any different, according to the rules, when you cannot choose between two encounters?

- I do think you have a valid direction of attack against this example (it is the only one I lack full certainty with), but it does not appear as easy to me as it would seem.

The Duke ruling is in the FAQ. Here's the text:

For example, if a player with the ally Duke (“discard to
immediately restore your Sanity to its maximum”) draws
an encounter and has to roll a die and lose that much
Sanity, when can he discard Duke to restore Sanity: not at
all once the encounter card is drawn, before the roll, or
after the roll?
A: Actions can be performed at any time during their
listed phase as long as any given conditions are met.
However, once an encounter is drawn, it must be resolved
before any more actions can be performed. So, in the
case of Duke, you can use him before or after drawing an
encounter card, but if you draw the encounter card and it
inflicts Sanity loss that reduces you to 0 Sanity, you go
insane before you can use Duke. Flesh Ward is one exception
to this rule because it prevents a Stamina loss and is
intended to be used in response to such events.

Ah, very good! While we cannot infer this to apply to other timing issues, it does take care of anything that happens in the encounter card. Which means (before I edit my topic to reflect your criticism), that it could only be used if someone caused the ancient one to awaken by means other than an encounter card (summoning and slaying a cultist, for example). This would also mean that in my example, if you draw two cards, you must choose and go through one card before anything else can be plyed, with the exception of flesh ward.

What do you think of the following then, all of which could happen:

The Outskirts being emptied during the encoutners phase (it says this is done "when" the monsters exceed the limit, thus happening after the event as opposed to at the same time), causing the terror level to go beyond 10 and awakening the ancient one.

Same thing for too many monsters on the board.

Same thing for an ally being discarded for, say, a rumor card, causing Glaaki to awaken.

Same thing for when Rhan-Tegoth gains a Doom Token after placing a Cultist on his sheet.

These things happen consecutively, therefore allowing one to see that the ancient one is about to awaken, and thus call out "I read the tome!" before the ancient one awakens, thus doing it while he awakens. I think these might work. What do you think?

Well the ancient one doesn't awaken when the terror level reaches 10, so the outskirts thing is kind of pointless.

My opinion is that if the the ancient one awakens, you pretty much can't do anything. You should have done what you could before whatever triggered the awakening happened.

If the terror level is already 10, it will instead give the ancient one a doom token.

I agree with what you are saying - but that is why I think my points in the previous point stand: due to the consecutive nature of what is happening, you can time your use of the de vermiis to happen at the same time.

I think one of the funniest cases is when you're about to complete Joining the Winning Team when Glaaki is the AO and 4 servants are already in play. The following things happen simultaneously when you sacrifice the last ally:

• You complete Joining the Winning Team and win
• The 5th servant of Glaaki enters play, and you lose your mission card unless you have another unique item if it's a certain servant
• In addition, Glaaki awakens, and you are devoured because you're LiTaS (unless you have the Messenger)

... note that the first player decides what happens first if the players cannot agree, so you probably want to be the first player when this happens.

(if you have the Messenger and another servant is drawn last, or you have another unique item to discard, sequence doesn't matter if you're still considered to be LiTaS when the AO awakened)

Well done the Victimizer. These would be too much fun to quibble with.

Love Hellrazor's point about the first player though. If ever there was a a "Curses my Nefarious Plans are Foiled through one Small Oversight" moment than this would surely be it :-)

- Mariana the ex-nun cultist

HëllRÆZØR said:

Are you sure about that? My reading of Glaaki's card is that he awakens if there are 5 servants in play and you need to place another, not when the 5th servant enters play.

cim said:

You're right, looks like I overlooked the word "already". However, the 1st event still can be triggered at the same time as the 2nd or 3rd event - it's just that the 2nd and the 3rd one can't be triggered at the same time.

I just won a gate tonight by passing Silas's story. I had no idea what it would do, but he was preparing to go kill Barnabas Marsh to keep the doom track from maxing next turn while the last seal was going to be lain.

These seem like interesting solutions, but many of these depend on how you interpret the base game's rules regarding final combat: I believe it says that when the AO awakens, the investigators have "one last chance" to defeat the Ancient One, implying that all other routes to victory have expired.

I dunno, the "one last chance" bit is after all just "fluff text". It can imply things, but it doesn't state what it actually means rules-wise, which follow in the final battle section. So it never does say (or even to me, imply) that the other routes to victory are no longer available.

*edit*

I can see what you're saying, I'm just giving my 2 euro-cents to it.