It's weird to me how everyone was so excited about the S-Loop on the Aggressor. A large-base ship that can do a 3-bank or 3-turn and still keep people in arc! How novel!

The Firespray looks at that and says, "Pfft. I've been doing that for years."

I'm unsure about k-turn on turn 1 just to utilize that rear arc, as it means that you are failing to use your (potential) missile, torpedo or cannon.

I'd modify this tactic to be turn 1 going straight or bank (depending on opponent deployment) to get something into arc at range 3 and firing a missile or torpedo at it, then in subsequent turns doing a k-turn and slowly moving away from targets. I think a Mercenary Co-pilot is likely a must in this setup as you'll often have targets at long range as they'll be wary about letting you kite them.

1) Missiles are rarely worth it if you don't have a good way to modify the dice rolls. Even then, they are expensive for something that is one use.

2) You don't want to get a cannon on a ship that will be trying to put it's rear towards the enemy and won't get to use the cannon.

I'd be happy to just fire regular guns at Range 3 and keep the points down.

I'm unsure about k-turn on turn 1 just to utilize that rear arc, as it means that you are failing to use your (potential) missile, torpedo or cannon.

No one puts Torpedoes or Missiles on a ship when Cannon are possible. For that matter, the HLC's really the only one used on the Firespray at this time.

Imperial Kath likes the Mangler, and Krassis likes the Mangler and HLC, but for everything else, their inclusion is often eschewed for other upgrades.

Good point about the Merc Co-Pilot, though.

1) Missiles are rarely worth it if you don't have a good way to modify the dice rolls. Even then, they are expensive for something that is one use.

2) You don't want to get a cannon on a ship that will be trying to put it's rear towards the enemy and won't get to use the cannon.

I'd be happy to just fire regular guns at Range 3 and keep the points down.

1.Well if you're sinking between 1/3 and 1/2 your points into a single ship then your worst case scenario is getting horribly outnumbered. Firing off an assault missile or ion torpedo on turn 1 could drastically swing things in your favour.

2. Indeed, but certain pilots need secondary weapons to really shine. I'd say Boba or Bounty Hunter work best with primary weapons.

K-turning into the first round of combat means

-you enter the first round of combat stressed and actionless against enemy ships with actions

-your opponents fighters will not have to k-turn to keep their arcs on you

-you will be facing your own board edge, which means you will at some point have to turn to avoid flying off the edge, which will spin your rear arc away from the oncoming ships for a turn.

I don't really think this tactic is more advantageous than just a normal approach with an overshoot or 3-turn out of the fight. Overshooting while your opponent's have to k-turn means that you can speed out of their arcs while they are forced to use green maneuvers while you are turning to come back around for another approach. K-turning into the fight means you are presenting them your tail and offering a chase without forcing them to stress, so they will be on top of you when you have to turn your rear arc away from them to avoid going off the edge.

1) Missiles are rarely worth it if you don't have a good way to modify the dice rolls. Even then, they are expensive for something that is one use.

2) You don't want to get a cannon on a ship that will be trying to put it's rear towards the enemy and won't get to use the cannon.

I'd be happy to just fire regular guns at Range 3 and keep the points down.

1.Well if you're sinking between 1/3 and 1/2 your points into a single ship then your worst case scenario is getting horribly outnumbered. Firing off an assault missile or ion torpedo on turn 1 could drastically swing things in your favour.

2. Indeed, but certain pilots need secondary weapons to really shine. I'd say Boba or Bounty Hunter work best with primary weapons.

Remember that there are Scum pilots as well

Oh, and you should call the list "Baby's Got Back" or "An A-- To Die For".

"Dat Ace"

In both cases you need to take a left bank... Also PS and Engine upgrade are your friends...

Also this is the exact showcase why on small ships you do need mobility, and why X-Wings are ****. Because in comparison to Fel, they would facetank this every turn!

Easy to say generally though but if you're on the left side of the board or there's an asteroid to the left? Just trying to say all this "just kite ships with your rear arc" doesn't hold up in real games.

As does the Arc-dodging! It's all a question of Pilot skill and options... But i still feel it is pretty easy to keep someone in the rear arc.

1) Missiles are rarely worth it if you don't have a good way to modify the dice rolls. Even then, they are expensive for something that is one use.

2) You don't want to get a cannon on a ship that will be trying to put it's rear towards the enemy and won't get to use the cannon.

I'd be happy to just fire regular guns at Range 3 and keep the points down.

1.Well if you're sinking between 1/3 and 1/2 your points into a single ship then your worst case scenario is getting horribly outnumbered. Firing off an assault missile or ion torpedo on turn 1 could drastically swing things in your favour.

2. Indeed, but certain pilots need secondary weapons to really shine. I'd say Boba or Bounty Hunter work best with primary weapons.

Remember that there are Scum pilots as well

I thought we were exclusively talking Scum pilots. That's why we are talking about Kath and the rear firing bonus.

1) Assault or Ion Torpedoes are 5 pts with no way to modify the dice. If you hit....that's great. If you don't..... The ordnance would work better on a ship that wasn't Kath, such as Drea Renthal as he/she could use the TL for a re-roll on those dice.

2) Yes, some pilots work best with secondary weapons and others work best without. I would say that Scum Kath is one of those that is one of the best pilots to work without.

@Tvboy: That's why I said Adrenaline Rush would be good to get rid of the red action.

I had one game with a mercenary where I had a b-wing and a headhunter coming up behind me, I could of gone straight and traded shots instead I pulled a hard turn to the left defying expectations and forced his b-wing to slam into my side and the headhunter to stop at range one behind me where I one shot it.

As with any fighter good piloting dictates how successful using the rear arc is going to be.

1) Missiles are rarely worth it if you don't have a good way to modify the dice rolls. Even then, they are expensive for something that is one use.

Same reason why you shouldn't use Expose.

Back on topic. Hard turns are usually much better at getting into that position withouth stressing yourself. The reason why it is not used is because it is not needed. Stay on target seems a much better fit for that imo.

1) Missiles are rarely worth it if you don't have a good way to modify the dice rolls. Even then, they are expensive for something that is one use.

Same reason why you shouldn't use Expose.

Except that K4 Security Droid gives you a free TL.

1) Missiles are rarely worth it if you don't have a good way to modify the dice rolls. Even then, they are expensive for something that is one use.

Same reason why you shouldn't use Expose.

Except that K4 Security Droid gives you a free TL.

Apologies, thought you were taking about the one that gives you a focus when stressed. Always confuse the scum ones for no logical reason.

Yeah, I've been burning my phone batteries down using X-wing Companion to look stuff up. I've not been thinking about Scum until the past week or so. I'm really late in reading up on them. There is a new podcast that goes into details of just "Most Wanted" that was pretty good. It's "Podcast in a game of chance". UK based, but very smart dialogue. They actually describe the cards as they talk about them, too. There was another podcast that talked about S&V and threw names around that I was not at all familiar with.

@Tvboy: That's why I said Adrenaline Rush would be good to get rid of the red action.

There's still the other 2 points though, and another on that I just realized.

Large ships tend to get focused on first, and it's important to dictate the range of the fight when you are getting attacked by multiple enemies. Close range favors multiple attackers and disfavors a single attacking ship, and vice versa, because the close range bonus is multiplied by the number of attackers. Conversely, long range fights favor a single attacker and disfavors multiple attackers, because long range bonuses are multiplied for the defender by the number of attackers.

Example: Firespray vs 3 Z-95s, at range 1 Firespray gets +1 attack dice, while the Zs get a total of +3 attack dice, and at range 3 the Zs get +1 defense dice against the Firesprays attack, while the Firespray gets +3 total defense dice against the Zs attacks (+1 each). Fat Han and Expose Decimators are anomalies to this because they rely on their huge hps rather than defense dice, and they both have a very high chance of getting 4 hits due to their pilot abilities.

K-turning the Firespray right in front of the opponent's charge drastically reduces your ability to dictate the range of the fight, and it will be much easier for the opponent to give their ships range 1 shots on you for the next couple of turns.

Unless you're bomb slinging with Emmon or setting up a really slow rolling pincher, the Kturn out of the gate isn't great. After initial engagement I use the rear arc almost exclusively. I keep meaning to do a Developing list: Fat Bottom Kath-y, but I'm waiting for the Scyk dial before I commit to support:

Scummy Kathy+ k4 + bomb of choice + EPT (leaning towards PTL)

Leech + bodyguard

Leech can focus himself and siphon off a focus from Kathy with PTL. Kath can free TL, evade, and PTL for focus if needed This Kath and a bomb outguns many 2 ship combos and if Leech is around she has AG 3, evade, and a focus if needed. That's a nasty Firespray.

Outmaneuver or expose could work but the focus combo seems better... Pre-BR change for large ships I'd still run expert handling on her, now I'm not sure but it pretty well gauruntees a shot and usually puts a chase scenario even more in her favor. EU can combo but that's a lot of points. Maybe VI+EU to ensure positioning? That sounds nice too. Countermeasures to make ordnance miss and combat swarm (hey juggler! What's the durability of a 4 Agility firespray? If only for a round), or for when you don't want to tether Leech (or leech is helping Laetin).

All i can think about is break the internet

Wouldn't Stay on Target + Outlaw Tech be a good combo to help with this plan?

MIND BLOWN!!!

Um this is a great idea! I have never thought of it this way and I think you are dead on. I normally play on the kitchen table, so sometimes it takes until turn 3 before anybody is in range of anybody (I like high point games on big tables) but even on a smaller table I think it would be best not to flip at the start because you wont have a whole lot of room to manuver in before you run into the edge of the table and limit your options. I think that if you can put yourself some distance from the edge then flip around and keep the targets in your rear arc that this would do just fine.

I know what list Im gonna run next time I play!

On the k turn on the first movement issue. It may be better to position Kath from the corner start position like shown in the Decimator insert...where you have your large ship start in the corner of the map facing your opponent in an angle

Granted you still may not want to K turn the first chance but after first initial movement you should have plenty of room to K turn and light them up.

Sorry wasn't able to read this all but someone was flying Yorr and two BHs in a top 4 event and he k turned one for the first round and had Yorr take the stress. IT was pretty sweet to watch. I saw it on YouTube.

@Tvboy: That's why I said Adrenaline Rush would be good to get rid of the red action.

There's still the other 2 points though, and another on that I just realized.

Yeah, I brought up the same concerns as you. It could be neat in the right circumstance, but utterly wrong in others.

MIND BLOWN!!!

Um this is a great idea! I have never thought of it this way and I think you are dead on. I normally play on the kitchen table, so sometimes it takes until turn 3 before anybody is in range of anybody (I like high point games on big tables) but even on a smaller table I think it would be best not to flip at the start because you wont have a whole lot of room to manuver in before you run into the edge of the table and limit your options. I think that if you can put yourself some distance from the edge then flip around and keep the targets in your rear arc that this would do just fine.

I know what list Im gonna run next time I play!

On the k turn on the first movement issue. It may be better to position Kath from the corner start position like shown in the Decimator insert...where you have your large ship start in the corner of the map facing your opponent in an angle

Granted you still may not want to K turn the first chance but after first initial movement you should have plenty of room to K turn and light them up.

If you do this wrong, they're staring at your flank, where you can't return fire. That is a Bad Thing.

MIND BLOWN!!!

Um this is a great idea! I have never thought of it this way and I think you are dead on. I normally play on the kitchen table, so sometimes it takes until turn 3 before anybody is in range of anybody (I like high point games on big tables) but even on a smaller table I think it would be best not to flip at the start because you wont have a whole lot of room to manuver in before you run into the edge of the table and limit your options. I think that if you can put yourself some distance from the edge then flip around and keep the targets in your rear arc that this would do just fine.

I know what list Im gonna run next time I play!

Right. Wich is why i myself wont be doing this approach.... think ill just take a more direct approach hopefully fly past them with my rear arc facing their rear arcs.......it will be like reverse spooning! Its beautiful!

I'm surprised it took to page 4 for people to start talking about how it's putting you at a disadvantage for the opening round, being that you're actionless, stressed, and presumably outnumbered. Especially compared to the standard scenario of you go straight instead of K, you have an action and no stress, shots are exchanged as they previously were. But now you fly past with a 4 straight or something, but since you're blocking their K turn, they can't get a shot on you. Now you have a free modified shot on them out of the rear arc.

The only time I could see liking the K turn at the start of combat would be if you have bombs you want to drop. But I'd still be nervous about dropping a bomb at the cost of exposing myself to the enemy.