Voidship build philosophies

By Traejun, in Rogue Trader

As a long-time GM and occasional player of Rogue Trader, I've spent a lot of time building voidships for myself, with players or to use against them. I've noticed over the years that I tend to do so with a very specific concept in mind. Essentially, I have discovered that there are 3 ways to build a gunboat (so-called because it is primarily a combat vessel vs. a ship with as much investment in utility components as armament).

Below, I'll list off my design philosophies with brief explanation/description of each. Thereafter, I'd like to know what some of you think. To narrow a mentality? Outright disagree?

Brawler: These warships generally prefer to engage at short to medium range with weapons that trade range for higher damage potential and strength rating. Crit is of secondary importance here because the brawler is going to outlast its opponent. Weapons like Meltacannons or Ryza-patterns are excellent choices here. An excellent choice for Cruisers, but dangerous amongst larger vessels because a Brawler caught overextended simply doesn't have the speed to disengage or the ram and lacks the armour to stand up to concentrated fire from multiple targets. Nonetheless, the Brawler is the simplest and most consistent of warships design concepts, not requiring significant modification and likely to perform well in nearly any situation. A light cruiser cannot function as a Brawler, it just won't last. Finally, a Brawler, while certainly able to benefit from escorts, is not dependent upon them for survival. Rather, the escorts merely serve as the mosquito fleet which the adept Brawler captain/commodore will use to bleed its targets in preparation for the killing blow.

Sniper: Built around long-range macrocannons and lance weapons, the sniper is designed to engage at extended ranges, where opponents cannot reliably return fire (i.e. penalties to BS due to range). Damage, strength and even crit rating are of nominal importance as even the most adept Arch-Militant is unlikely to score more than a pair of hits with each volley absent an exceptional roll. To the end, weapons such as Hecutor-pattern plasma batteries and Sunsears are perfect choices, along with extended range lance weapons. The sniper concept is where vessels like Battlecruiser and Grand Cruisers can shine. Lacking the speed to close on targets, but possessing the ability to deliver massive volleys from either broadside, the super-capital built as a sniper can lay waste to targets before they have much of a chance to close into weapons range, although a Cruiser can function servicably in this role. A Light Cruiser CAN excel here, but it must be an immensely fast vessel with a crack crew capable of maintaining distance and striking targets while moving at those speeds. Even when facing Cruiser sized vessels built in a similar fashion, this vessel can outlast and outgun its opponent(s). Finally, the Sniper, while able to begin delivering damage at extreme range, is quite vulnerable to small, fast vessels that can close the distance and avoid incoming fire - such as the Dauntless or Cobra. For the reason, an escort cadre is a near-requirement.

Wolf: Built around a combination of speed and high-alpha damage, the Wolf is designed as a cap-ship-killer. The Wolf will favor high strength and crit ratings and use macrocannons almost exclusively as the salvos from these weapons can penetrate the thick armour and heavy void shielding of capital vessels. Weapons such as Stygies-pattern macrocannons and Sunsears (broadsides, specifically) will serve as the Wolf's fangs, capable of crippling targets in a single broadside. These weapons, when fired in salvo, can punch through the thickest of armour. A Light Cruiser, while certainly possessing the speed to serve in the role, lacks the armour and damage-capacity to safely perform this role. As such, it must be fitted with components specifically designed to remedy these shortcomings. A cruiser, while certainly bringing the necessary firepower and armour, simply lacks the necessary closing speed - requiring similar investment and modification. Notwithstanding the apparent strength of the Wolf, it is nearly impossible to properly build and crew as few hulls provide a good base, therefore requiring a significant investment of SP/PF in order to properly construct a vessel whose role can be filled by a pair or trio of cheaper escorts. To that end, the Wolf, if properly build, can function well as a member of a fleet (the super-escort role) or even as the true lone wolf, hunting capital vessels caught alone. The Wolf is similarly an excellent choice for well-equipped pirates or more larcenous Rogue Traders.

On the issue of balanced designs, I've found that they generally under-perform, so I rarely build vessels this way. I'd love to hear from anyone that prefers such things.

So it turns out my frigate is a Sniper. Dual Sunsear batteries to plug you with holes before you can reach me XD

I'd argue that a Wolf is better serviced with lots of lances and really, REALLY good sensors. You scan out, and then get as many crits in as you can with the lower crit thresholds of the lances and the completely ignoring of the armor dealy. Maybe a single macrocannon just to take out the void shields and do some basic damage. But you don't KILL cap ships. You cripple them, then figure out a way to loot the **** out of them.

Also there are philosophies behind other sorts of ships.

What about the ships for support duty. For example, a ship with ALL of the various sensor boosts, great for sciency style endevors, and freaking FANTASTIC at scanning for components for those all important crit rolls.

The "Brawler" is my favorite build for the good old Avenger-class.

Stacked plasma macro-batteries with crit improvements on the 3 broadsides, get extra armour plating + triple castellan arrays if your GM allows it, throw it in the middle of an enemy fleet and see that crumble in 2-3 turns.

Barracks/Murder servitors to scare away boarders + flak turrets improvement are also welcome.

For "Sniper" I usually have an alternative version of that using a carrier with hangars dedicated to bombers (just a 1-2 fury squads for escort) and hecutor/long range lance batteries for support. At extreme range, nearly nothing can deal as much damage as 8-10 bomber squads. Escort heavily armored frigates ("Brawlers") can work fantastically well together with this kind of sniper-carrier, as they can hold the enemy at range for 1-2 turns until the bomber swarm 1-hit the enemy ship.

I'd like to also mention an unusual philosophy - "Invasion" ships

Used to ensure success of military endeavors, these ships usually will utilize multiple barracks, bombardment cannons and hangers with flyers (x2 modifier to quantity according to BFK) and an invasion bridge. It generally requires an escort and depending on the warzone it's deployed to, it could require good shielding/armor to defend versus anti-orbital batteries planetside.

These ships are expensive and specialized, we aren't talking about transports carrying the default "just throw more guardsmen at it" doctrine here - but the spearhead that can break through bunkered planetary defenses and hit priority targets to effectively win the war without an extended conflict.

My current players dynasty is very militaristic and is preparing one of these to reconquer their homeworld from orks/Severan troops in the Spinward Front.

And " Exploration " ships

Good augurs & survivability components, not to be mistaken for paper destroyers/transports, these ships need to be tough if they really want to go where others didn't go yet (and most likely for good reason - hmmm... I wonder what treasures/untouched worlds can be found in the Alenic Depths?).

These ships also require cargo holds that can be filled with treasure and forbidden xenotech luxury items sacked collected in its explorations.

The invasion ships you're speaking of actually exist in the form of the Astartes strike cruisers and battle barges.

The invasion ships you're speaking of actually exist in the form of the Astartes strike cruisers and battle barges.

"Unusual" for Rogue Traders. : )

My players had their share of playing "Dark Angels in the Siege of Vraks" the other day by near resolving an years-long siege in a single day through this sort of Astartes tactics.

On the issue of balanced designs, I've found that they generally under-perform, so I rarely build vessels this way. I'd love to hear from anyone that prefers such things.

Hi!

The Hive: this is for cruisers and grand cruisers only, and works by abusing the launch bay. A single Avenger can have up to 36 squadrons in space at once, pretty much eliminating the speed issues with the ship. With the right supplementary components, you're unlikely to loose AC and can pretty much cripple other ships at will at very long range.

Escorting frigates armed with torps, particularly Falchion, can make this absurdly powerful, but have plenty of room for lots of additional components while still maxing out damage output and AC recovery.

To start with Traejun, it depends on what house rules are being used. While many use Mathhammer, just as many have their own variants of Mathhammer, and Mathhammer changes tactics, and hence ship design, greatly. I'm going to assume the Mathhammer -12 armor and no stacking of salvos unless you tell me differently.

First I'd mimic others and say that there are other generic roles to be filled than your basic 3.

Baronlveigh and Sebastian Yorke both mention the "carrier." This one is soooo broken. If you haven't played out a campaign with a large dedicated carrier yet, well...it's just broken. Don't build a dedicated carrier with anything less than a cruiser. Light cruisers can't pack the whallop. Conquests do nicely, though.

Sebastian and Yorke both bring up the "invasion" ship. I personally love this one, but they are highly specialized and maybe too expensive for an RT Dynasty. And Rad, I don't think the SM Strike Cruisers make good ones, simply because CLs can't carry an invasion bridge (sans house rules, of course), otherwise I think this role would be perfect for CLs.

And while Sebastian brings up the "exploration" vessel, I think there's room for a "spotting" vessel. The Viper excels at this role, staying out of combat and using specialized augurs to scope out all opponents' components, relaying this info to all allied vessels.

I'd also add a(n) AAA escort to the mix, especially if you haven't house ruled small craft yet. It would also require some house rules, but there's ample fluff to back it up. Fleet Defense Turrets are available in BFG, and having escorts with them might save "the apple of your eye" from one of those devastating bomber attacks.

Well, I did design some stats for an invasion ship that isn't Astartes...

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/129156-elysian-class-drop-cruiser/#entry1368440

And a couple other ships that should be capable of hitting out of their tonnage class, due to Obvious Reasons...

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/129101-homebrew-strike-cruiser-stats/#entry1367443

Also note one of my other posts, the Harvest for an invasion ship:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/127634-on-the-virtues-of-the-lathe-cruiser-or-why-not-just-get-a-dauntless/?p=1343727

And note the Victus for a heavy frigate that is designed to not be insane as the Pugna, but still good. It's designed to be an 'exploration' vessel, quite easily. Though without the cargo bay. That's mostly for the Swiftwind, which should work passably well. Thoughts?

Traejun, what could you do with some of these designs?

Edited by Gavinfoxx

Well, I did design some stats for an invasion ship that isn't Astartes...

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/129156-elysian-class-drop-cruiser/#entry1368440

And a couple other ships that should be capable of hitting out of their tonnage class, due to Obvious Reasons...

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/129101-homebrew-strike-cruiser-stats/#entry1367443

Also note one of my other posts, the Harvest for an invasion ship:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/127634-on-the-virtues-of-the-lathe-cruiser-or-why-not-just-get-a-dauntless/?p=1343727

And note the Victus for a heavy frigate that is designed to not be insane as the Pugna, but still good. It's designed to be an 'exploration' vessel, quite easily. Though without the cargo bay. That's mostly for the Swiftwind, which should work passably well. Thoughts?

Traejun, what could you do with some of these designs?

Well, none of these really fit into any of my design philosophies, so I'm not sure which way I'd go with this. The non-Astartes drop cruiser really is a niche ship pretty much incapable of defending itself from anything. It's just an overpriced transport. The Astartes strike cruiser is standard for the most part - see http://www.darkreign.org/sites/default/files/Ships%20of%20the%20Adeptus%20Astartes%20-%201.0.5.pdf

As for the Vaught is undergunned, slow as a druken cow and has the combat capability of a lesser ship. Honestly, it's a deathtrap.

Yea, but I like my writeup better than that guy's, which it is based on. And look at how cheap the Vaught is! How would you modify the Elysian? Remember that it is NOT designed for void-based actions... Also, remember, the Elysian has components which would normally go in the port/starboard slots, already taken up. It *was* a prow/port/starboard ship...

Edited by Gavinfoxx

The general problem I have with ship design is that the best designs are broken. I mean, if I'm trying to build the best possible, then I build the absolute best possible, right? Anything less means I'm not trying my hardest and who plays a game without trying their hardest? That means using every single broken component I can fit into the design.

So, they all have Miloslav Warp Engines...period. I get double Warp speed, spend less energy, and have fewer encounters. No brainer. Makes perfect sense, right?

Next, my transports are filled with as many Luxury Passenger Quarters components as I can squeeze in, so I can earn an extra 15 PFs per endeavor with just a single Vagabond in tow. Wait till I get 3 or 4 Vagabonds.

For utter fleet destruction purposes I field a cruiser. Why not a battlecruiser or grand cruiser? It's a waste of SPs. I can get the same from a cruiser and save SPs. And it's all about SPs and PF.

So my utopian cruiser has 4 GC Lathe-pattern Landing Bays. Why Lathe? It saves space. 4 GC Lathes only take up 16 spaces total. With those I carry 9 squadrons of Furies and 15 squadrons of Starhawks. I can launch 2 waves, with each wave launching 2 groups of 1 Fury/3Starhawks each, giving me 4 attack groups that will (because the RTs Command skill will always hit with maximum results) score 20 hits. My last wave (or first, depending on the tactical situation) will only have 1 attack group, the remaining 4 Furies being CAP (which is already in place because being a proper munchkin, I always launch them the second we tranlsate from Warp and keep them going 24/7).

Now I'll score a guaranteed 25 hits. That's an average 137.5 points of damage plus 5 critical hits (another almost guarantee, given a Command skill of 100-120). Even using Mathhammer and having a target with Armor 8 (normally 20) means that 70% of my hits will get through the armor landing 70 hits average to the hull integrity, plus those 5 crits. Mind you, I didn't need all that overkill because my target was already severely wounded, having been softened up by my prow...

Nova Cannon. I mean, this ship is all about destroying your enemy before they even get to fire a shot because nothing is more demoralizing, right? And I don't even have to hit with the Nova Cannon. All I need is to get within 1 VU, which means a simple failure or 1 DoF is good enough. Of course, Nova Cannon are hard to aim with, meaning they were 2 DoS (-20) harder to hit with in the first place, but there are other characters that can mitigate this task (AM and VM).

You can only fire the Nova Cannon every other turn. No big deal since you aren't going to let the other guys have a chance to shoot at you (you don't want those Lathe Landing Bays taking a hit). Oh, and the Nova Cannon can't fire if you perform a maneuver greater than Challenging, which means if you can only have 1 archeotech device, you should choose Gyro-Stabilization Matrix since it allows you to Come to New Heading as a Challenging action. Now you can shoot at your enemy 60 VUs away, do a 90-degree turn (ideally you were shooting at a 45-degree angle) and be running away from your opponent at 135-degrees while reloading (btw, this is what turned me off miniatures about 30 years ago...they became more of a contest in geometry than in tactics...although I really love geometry contests...they come in right behind guzzling scalding hot coffee).

And if you needed any more help dominating the battlefield, you saved crap tons of power by loading up on Landing Bays instead of those silly broadside batteries, so pile on as many Augmented Retro Thrusters as you have remaining power for...just in case you want to do a Hans Solo through an asteroid field with a 3-mile long ship.

If you need speed instead, then an Energistic Conversion Matrix might be your cup of tea. You'll probably have enough saved power to boost the speed of your cruiser to 10+, and if this design isn't overpowered enough, swap out those Thrusters for a half-dozen Gravity Sails, giving you the same boost in maneuverability and speed simultaneously, because there's nothing more obnoxious than a cruiser with speed 12 and maneuverability > +40.

Now you might be thinking at this time, "Errant, that's an incredibly expensive ship," which takes us back up to the top of this post and those transports with as many Luxury Passenger Quarters components piled onto them as they can carry. Because we can build a Vagabond for 23 SPs with 2 Main Cargo Holds and 4 Luxury Passenger Quarters that generates an additional 15 PF (each!!) per endeavor as long as they are engaged in Trade, Criminal, and Creed endeavors. This could be really hard, though because corrupt priests in need of shiny stuff are really hard to find, right? Or maybe you're just carrying pilgrims and Kasballica agents to the same location, along with plows and seed...and recreational pharmaceuticals.

Ok, enough of that long rant. I didn't mean to derail the talk of good ship design (it should be apparent that I actually enjoy ship design), just to highlight that there are many issues with ship design, and until those are fixed then "good" ships becomes a very narrowly defined field.

Edited by Errant Knight

I'm assuming miloslavs probably get nerfed by a GM, though... and probably limit the number of luxury passenger components. And might do SOMETHING about dedicated carriers...

But. Wow. That was... wow.

And does no one at all find Frigates, Heavy Frigates, or Light Cruisers at all useful? What about my intentionally slightly-OP in the stats Astartes Light Cruiser and Heavy Frigate? Would those, with enough of the right Good, Best, Best/Relic, and the occasional Archeotech components, be able to function optimally in any of these roles?

Edited by Gavinfoxx

I have yet to find a ship class I don't like, Gavinfoxx. I even like the Carracks and can make them into a worthy RT ship. Quite frankly, well built characters make any ship playable, which is why broken ships are soooo bad. I have a particularly obnoxious Universe (at start SP cost of 70) that can garner you an extra 68 PF in a single voyage. It has an Incompetent crew and 10 Poor-Craftsmanship Components, but hey, one or two voyages and you can throw it away and start over.

So yeah, all your designs are workable. The key is just making sure the SP cost of them is appropriate.

The way the game works, the best ship designs are those that get you the most achievement point bonuses. Those make it possible to buy any ship you might want. But, there's many other ways to approach the game than simply trying to "win."

One of my favorite designs is the "stealth" or "smuggler" approach. Take any of the low SP cost raiders or destroyers and put a Shadowfield and Empyrean Mantle on it. You have to use a small ship because the only way to guarantee yourself of starting with xenotech is to go with Halo Artefacts on the Ship Warrant Path, which means your SPs will be pretty low. The 2 aforementioned components are going to cost another 6 SP, and you'll want some sort of cargo bay component, and probably the passive augur array, so that's at least another 2 SP. I think the maximum SPs you can spend on this path is like 44 (sans Origin Path bonuses), so you can see that only a small ship is feasible.

Alternately, you can go Cypra Drive and Empyrean Mantle and get a larger ship, say frigate (since you're using archeotech instead of xenotech and that allows for more SPs). You're almost impossible to find on Silent Running, either way.

I stay away from BC and GC components at start, where possible. Giving up starting SP for extras is a no-no, as a general rule. You can have those later "for free" (an acquisition roll). Starting SPs are spent on "money-makers" and armaments.

In all honesty, CLs are my favorite starting choice. They are cheap enough that you still have workable PF, and they have plenty of space to grow into. And who doesn't like the idea of an Endeavor with 8 torpedo tubes for'ard, a reinforced prow, and power ram? Remember to bring along a giant sewing kit to stitch your prizes of war back together with.

You can't go wrong with a frigate. They are the most versatile craft. They can be armed as well as anything but a capital ship, tend to be speedy (with notable exceptions), and have enough room left over to be a money-maker (PF generator). You can go for ranged weapons or up-close-and-personal (one of my favorites since you often have the speed to close to range and let go with devastating effect). Consider a Falchion with Voss and Gryphonne torpedo tubes (6 tubes) and either Stygies or Ryza Plasma batteries. Use fast-burn plasma torpedoes and don't fire them until you're right up on them. Of course, there's also always the standard 2 x Sunsear batteries for long-range sniping, but how fun is that? Actually, it's pretty fun.

I've often considered the SM Strike Cruiser and would probably come up with something similar to what you've done. I'm more interested in the Inquisitorial Dark Hunters.

LOL you want really broken? Cardinel Class heavy cruiser from BFG converted to RT. Similar to hades and Styx, but is Imp and can fire torps f/p/s

Maybe Baron, but I was going strictly by the book. Cardinals aren't by the book. I've seen some Cardinal conversions and don't agree with any of them.

As per BFG, the Cardinal isn't all that. It sacrifices total weapon capacity for torpedo swivel mounts. In RT terms, I'd rather rely on the Voidmaster to keep the ship pointed in the right direction and carry an extra weapons system.

If you want un-statted broken ships, why not just go for the Inquisitorial Black Ship? It's basically a heavily armored fast cruiser with more weapon capacity than a grand cruiser.

Yea, but I like my writeup better than that guy's, which it is based on. And look at how cheap the Vaught is! How would you modify the Elysian? Remember that it is NOT designed for void-based actions... Also, remember, the Elysian has components which would normally go in the port/starboard slots, already taken up. It *was* a prow/port/starboard ship...

The Elysian is the biggest head scratcher of them all. The numbers make it look like a junk transport with extra hardpoints. For the most part, it makes conceptual sense, but the details are all over the place weird.

Firstly, that doesn't even look like a light cruiser hull other than the hardpoints. I like the launch bays in the port/starboard, but that really makes it a carrier, not the planetary assault ship you're trying to make.

Here's my suggestions:

1. If you're going to use a light cruiser as the base (which you should), don't be afraid to **** one of the hulls - i.e. pull the torpedo tube out of the Endeavor, etc. Failing that, any of the hulls will do other than the Dauntless. I'd go with the Endeavor, with torp bay pulled out. Prow slot for Bombardment Cannnon and the other for...

2. Prow launch bay - just like on space marine strike cruisers. You don't need the launch capacity that comes with port/starboard bays, it just makes this into a carrier. 1 launch bay in the prow is more than enough air support for your troops on the ground, or strike craft to defend the ship.

3. Port and Starboard hardpoints for macrocannons of your choice. Go cheap here - Mars or Grav-Culverin will work, but not broadsides, just the regulars. These can also be used for bombardment.

4. Invasion Bridge and BG-15 Assault Scanners are a must. Pressed Crew quarters are find - it's troops.

5. At least 1 barracks components, preferably 2. Depending on your GM's rule with respect to how many troops/regiments fit in each barracks, you'll want to be able to load this thing up.

6. At least 1 Cargo/Lighter Bay, preferably 2. This is where the regiments will store their armour as well as the launching of drop craft.

7. Medicae Deck, for mass casualty.

8. Drop Pod Launchers, if possible.

The rest is up to you. At the end, this thing should have a speed of at least 5 or 6 with +Maneuverability <10 and a good detection rating. Given those numbers, you've got the Imperial Guard version of a Strike Cruiser - capable of defending itself in void combat and bringing the pain in planetary invasion.

It... is a transport/carrier? Imperial guard regiments land and drop from armored transports? And the Imperium is not good at making armored dedicated transports self-combat-capable, the Carrack is as good as it gets for modern-created things? And this used the capabilities of that as a baseline? And it's not meant to launch a bunch of air support or strike craft! Those would be launched from an entirely different carrier! It's meant to be able to take a couple of hits and successfully launch drop troops and airdrop aircraft that drop troops drop from, from upper atmosphere? And not much else?

IE, It's meant to launch air drop craft like valkyries! Which is the purpose of the launch bays?

Also. Drop Troop armor is generally Drop Sentinels, Drop Support Sentinels, Tauros, and Tarantulas... ie, things that can be dropped themselves or carried by Valkyries... so all the armor is actually immediately made available if you can, you know. Disgorge enough Valkyries...

Edited by Gavinfoxx

I'm surprised FFG didn't give us a prow Landing Bay. I just use the regular ones, but it takes a CL or larger to mount them. The rules on Aeronautica also don't work on Valkyries. They are the size of a Thundebolt, but the rules would only have 16 per squadron, so I don't use their Aeronautica squadron rules.

First, I make it twice as many squadrons, not double-sized squadrons, because that's more in line with squadron sizes for Mass Combat rules (which I also house-rule, just because the ones in BFK are boring for my players). Second, I make it 40 Valkyries per Landing Bay strength point.

I find it entirely appropriate that an escort landing bay holds 40 Thunderbolts, 20 Marauders, and 40 Valkyries. 40 Valkyries makes for a decent airmobile battalion.

I also find it appropriate that regiments are carried in transports. It's certainly in the fluff, and the Carrack makes for a nice troop transport. You can go with the cargo hold conversion landing bay.

Skytalons, though, seem insufficient to land a Leman Russ. Drop ships have always been a problem (another house rule).

I know that it means very little, but I seem to recall (I'm not going to play a scenario to check, though) in the Dawn of War games, someone there seemed to think that a Valkyrie was enough to fly in the crate a Leman Russ was inside, so maybe your Valks could each ferry down a tank, probably not combat-ready, but in shape to be assembled, and used, once on the ground.

As an unrelated aside, I have a little ship quandary. If I have a nice, powerful, military-type ship, say a Tyrant, is there anything out of the ordinary to possibly add, in the event one has decided to hunt Ork vessels for sport? Rak'Gol are troublesome, but I see their numbers and ships as infrequent, while the Eldar are possibly even more so, and can be reasoned with, OCCASIONALLY, but the Orks move in space the same ways they do on land, as in in huge numbers, and irritating their neighbors. If I wanted to do my part for bettering this territory that I am "claiming for the Imperium", and I want to thin the numbers of Ork cruisers and Roks (if they don't get to planets, they won't be a big nuisance on said planets), what specific things are good? I sort of imagine their accuracy might be a bit better in space, they don't run out of torpedoes, and I suspect they like ramming. I can't imagine them not taking every opportunity to initiate boarding actions, and such. Are these accurate? What's the best way to pop the booger ships?

Small craft in large numbers. Failing that, Nova cannon. Still a no? Long range broadsides. Finally...torpedoes. Ramming is a no-no simply because you've implied there are many of their ships in the region. Boarding is a no-no. Attrition will not be kind to you.

I notice many of those builds seem to focus on a high-end ship, either obtainable with maximum SP on character creation or with further upgrades. So for those of you in the 30-45 SP starting ship department, what do you go for? I don't see bruisers as available until at least the frigate class, but do you often try, say, lances or torpedoes on destroyers or frigates?

Well, cheaper ships is why I made the Swiftwind... for something 'decent enough' at low SP...

And don't get into fights with things bigger than you.

At low SP, focus on making more PF. And run from fights.

Edited by Gavinfoxx

It all depends on how you start out, high PF or high SP. It is my experience that most players go for high SP. It seems they more enjoy building up their fortunes in a rags (relatively speaking) to riches story than they do a building up a ship (though they're going to do that anyway).

Grand cruisers are hard to do, but you can start with an Overlord battlecruiser with 4 Sunsear broadsides and 2 Sunsear batteries. Lots of long-range firepower there. You'll have to work for a cargo hold component, or better still, find some lesser (Chartist, Free) Captains to run your stuff under battlecruiser escort.

I believe a Tyrant cruiser was mentioned, and you can turn one of those into a fleet-wrecker.

Still, if you are running frigates against Orcs, you're probably best off going the sniper route. Orc ships can really whittle away your crew. I didn't fight them in the campaign I played in, and Orcs were a major force in only one of the campaigns I've run, but they forced severe attrition on the players in that game.

My group has chosen a rather unusual approach. They started with a Cobra Class (a frigate hull with more space might have been even better, however, they chose the Cobra for style and fluff reasons) kitted out with a Cypra Pattern stealth drive ( Battlefleet Koronus ) and an Empyrean Mantle, a combination which makes their ship almost undetectable to enemy sensors when on silent running unless their opponent has a really solid detection rating. Coupled with the Passive Augur Array from Hostile Acquisitions their ship may run full augur sweeps on silent running without giving away their position in turn.

Consecutively, they crammed a prow Plasma Accelerated Torpedo Tube component, a dorsal best craftmanship Jovian Missile Battery and a Munitorium for increased battery damage and more torpedo storage into the ship.

Now, with short-burn torpedoes and the initial speed boost from their tubes their torpedo salvos may hit targets within 19 VU in the same turn they have been fired. With the surprise round and to-hit bonus from attacking from silent running they usually hit with the full salvo, quick load their tubes, slow their ship with retros to stay more or less on the same spot and fire a second salvo on their target. They then close in on the target (usually some critical hit has taken out the enemy's shields) and proceed to pound it with their rocket batteries which are equivalent to a Mars macrocannon broadside with the damage boost from the Munitorium and best craftmanship.

At first, I was really surprised how **** effective this build is if used properly. Oh and the best thing is the name their ship has been given... they havee christened her "Red October".