@Desslok

Who's attached to the numbers? o.O It's attachment to the character of which the things they can do and are, are a part of.

And the reason I didn't just respend the 1k-ish xp was already explained multiple times. It's a really bad idea (even the guys on the other side of the discussion agree with that).

And to us, it was never "Beta". It was the new Star Wars game. We weren't testing it, we bought it to play it. And it was not a cheap buy as you may recall. As a matter of fact, as I implied in the 1st post... it was forgotten that it was a Beta game. It was just our Star Wars game. o.O

The reason I don't just "give" them Force is because I didn't know if they'd all play Force Careers from the start. It was their choice to either get 4,3,3,3,2,2 or a point of Force and much lower characteristics. It was fairer my way, in my humble opinion.

Ah, I had the impression they were all Force users. Well, then take the extra 3 -> 4 option and allow it to give FR+1 instead for those who want it.

That's pretty much what we did whafrog, just in a cleaner manner.

Cleaner? Hardly. More convoluted, I'd say.

Cleaner for us (with more options, such as for anyone that would rather spend those points on skills or talents).

We get the same results, just with different methods, and if we're both getting the same results, then obviously you can't agree with those that are saying my system is "broken".

It seems to me that your player's issues with Force use use stem more from your interpretations and misconceptions. Your homebrew here is more of just a patch on your current homebrew. Hope it works out for you.

There is some truth to that @mouthymerc. Though less of a "homebrew" and more of an "interpretation" of the rules. I make it painful to use Force from the dark side, true. I always will, so yes, my patch is as much a fix for my interpretation as for all the other things I've mentioned.

You just spent a dark side Force point to throw someone from close to extreme range. It's welling inside of you, when a small figure darts from the shadows with a deadly weapon pointed at you as she laughs maniacally.

Alternately what everyone else saw:

He flung the thug over the closest building with a thought, when suddenly a little girl with a plastic toy gun comes around the corner, giggling at something in her thoughts.

Yeah, that's surely embellishing with my "interpretation" of what the book says, but I'm strongly of the opinion that it's the right way to handle dark side Force use.

We get the same results, just with different methods, and if we're both getting the same results, then obviously you can't agree with those that are saying my system is "broken".

No, I don't think we got the same results, several posts in you were talking about giving everyone 4,3,3,3,3,3. I don't know if that's "broken", but it's not that fun. Once the dice pools hit 5 or more it's harder to scale things, especially if your players are into having one-trick ponies. And it's not possible that it's "cleaner for you", since your method involves house rule complications that don't exist in a "normal chargen + XP" approach, whereas a "normal chargen + XP" approach gives them all the flexibility they could want.

But the main reason we're not getting the same results is you're left with having to refactor the entire rest of the game to conform to your change. I'll reiterate: if you're letting them spend extra XP on characteristics, skills, and FR, and not on Talents, then they're going to end up overpowered and under defended, and you'll have more work to do to compensate. You've just made more work for yourself, for no apparent benefit to anyone.

Carefully ignoring over a page of comments (in which everybody was called unemphatic rules-lawyers, nice) I'd say having everyone spend 320xp at chargen with 160 in characteristics does make for an extreme high level. It is 60% higher than average and in this system that is more than a lot, it is extreme.

What are the challenges your party faces???

We get the same results, just with different methods, and if we're both getting the same results, then obviously you can't agree with those that are saying my system is "broken".

No, I don't think we got the same results, several posts in you were talking about giving everyone 4,3,3,3,3,3. I don't know if that's "broken", but it's not that fun. Once the dice pools hit 5 or more it's harder to scale things, especially if your players are into having one-trick ponies. And it's not possible that it's "cleaner for you", since your method involves house rule complications that don't exist in a "normal chargen + XP" approach, whereas a "normal chargen + XP" approach gives them all the flexibility they could want.

But the main reason we're not getting the same results is you're left with having to refactor the entire rest of the game to conform to your change. I'll reiterate: if you're letting them spend extra XP on characteristics, skills, and FR, and not on Talents, then they're going to end up overpowered and under defended, and you'll have more work to do to compensate. You've just made more work for yourself, for no apparent benefit to anyone.

You're confusing my ChP system with the XP system. My original idea (which lent itself to 4,3,3,3,3,3) was a system that basically let them keep their current characteristics and start everything else fresh, but I was convinced easily and early to forgo that idea

Best generalized one can get with my XP system is 3,3,3,3,3,2 (and zero Force). .

We have someone with 4,4,2,2,2,2 (140 of the 160 xp) but nothing better than that (and even that has 4 glaring weak spots, and no bonus Force).

As such, all the rest of your assessment is based on a false impression.

Carefully ignoring over a page of comments (in which everybody was called unemphatic rules-lawyers, nice) I'd say having everyone spend 320xp at chargen with 160 in characteristics does make for an extreme high level. It is 60% higher than average and in this system that is more than a lot, it is extreme.

What are the challenges your party faces???

Have you compared it? I mean, a basic character vs a 160/160? That's about +1 to a single Characteristic of choice and 6-games. How much more challenging were things 6-games into your current campaign?

Carefully ignoring over a page of comments (in which everybody was called unemphatic rules-lawyers, nice) I'd say having everyone spend 320xp at chargen with 160 in characteristics does make for an extreme high level. It is 60% higher than average and in this system that is more than a lot, it is extreme.

What are the challenges your party faces???

Have you compared it? I mean, a basic character vs a 160/160? That's about +1 to a single Characteristic of choice and 6-games. How much more challenging were things 6-games into your current campaign?

What on Earth do you mean "6 games" you only get to set your characteristics once. At chargen. All xp you gain in game cannot be applied to your characteristics except for that spend on dedication.

@Desslok You are different than my players. They have even asked me to use their PCs as NPCs in my next storyline. Losing them and starting over is not easy for my players.

What on Earth do you mean "6 games" you only get to set your characteristics once. At chargen. All xp you gain in game cannot be applied to your characteristics except for that spend on dedication.

I said, +1 characteristic AND about 6 games. Do you really believe that a plus one to a single characteristic breaks things? If so, how?

What do you mean "AND 6 games"? And why am I asking this again?

Also, 60 extra xp in characteristics is only +1 if it is spend to raise a characteristic to its max of 6... It can raise 2 stats of 2 to 3 or one stat of 1 to 2 and one of 3 to 4.

This is getting ever weirder...

Also, and I want you to really think about this, In a system where 6 dice are the maximum a characteristic increase of an additional dice is a huge difference.

Not sure if this will apport anything to the conversation but...

http://maxmahem.net/wp/star-wars-edge-of-the-empire-die-probabilities/

http://game2.com/eote/?montecarlo=100000

http://xkcd.com/386/

You arent reading me boss. While possible to get two characteristics to plus one with 60 points, that just makes a generalist easier. Anything else is just plus one. And your question was, how do I challenge someone with those 60 extra points in characteristics? As I am showing you, that is not huge.

They traded in stats you will find on page 2 of this thread from their 1k xp, for a measly plus one to a single characteristic. The real issue here isnt, nor has it ever been, that slight bonus to characteristics. The issue has been the ability to buy force.

It must either be a comprehension thing on my side but where did you answer my question on those "6 games" I have now asked you about explicitely, twice?

Also, getting an extra 2 +1's doesn't make a character a generalist it makes him a lot better than a standard character. An extra +1 characteristic is not measly.... I really have no idea how your table works.

It must either be a comprehension thing on my side but where did you answer my question on those "6 games" I have now asked you about explicitely, twice?

Also, getting an extra 2 +1's doesn't make a character a generalist it makes him a lot better than a standard character. An extra +1 characteristic is not measly.... I really have no idea how your table works.

160xp at about 25xp per game.

A +1 is perhaps not measly, but it is also not huge. What for one player would have been 4,3,2,2,2,2 is now 4,4,2,2,2,2. What for another player would have been 3,3,3,2,2,2 is now 3,3,3,3,3,2. Those same players are coming from 5,5,2,2,2,2 and 6,3,3,3,3,2 from their 1k xp game. It is just a weak compenstion and access to usable force.

Ueah, I am going to bow put of this discussion.

This is not FFG star wars it is a different game all together... If you like it no skin of my nose!

However, I play in Utrecht once a month please keep this away from my table.

what sort of nonsense is that? Plus one characteristic makes it a totally different game? Thats just stupid....

And this rule was for MY players, As a form of compensation. It was never intended for anyone else, and you arent one of my players...

Actually, I was trying to be civil, if I would have used a word way more harsh than your use of "stupid". Moronic comes close I guess, but it still falls short to describe the way you seem to think addressing people that do not see why you need to make such changes to a game that is perfectly balanced as is. And for all the work you put in so far and all the posts you have made not one member of an often divided community has come to grips with the how and why of this. Instead of wondering what it is that made everyone look at you in disbelief you went out of your way to call everyone "rules-lawyers" while the only one behaving like one (and still is) has been you. The house rule lawyer.

Besides overpowering characteristics you are completely overpowering force use as well and basically rewritting how chargen works and again if that works for your table enjoy and from now on consider yourself ignored.

Too bad... I thought it would have been fun to meet a country men on this site...