Your call, naturally. But you did come here asking for advice.

But bear in mind what you can achieve with only 2 FD, and 3 makes it exponentially easier to play ATAT Skittles. AT 2 FD, you have a 1 in 9 chance of getting four pips. With 3, that skyrockets from 11% to about 70%. And we just saw what you can do with that. The game is pretty balanced for the most part; even one extra Force dice makes a massive difference.

Just be aware that allowing easy access to Force dice will seriously impact the way your game plays.

Yeah, you think you're defending your position, but you're actually digging a much deeper hole because you're position is so outdated. A lot of your "fixes" are already officially addressed in a more robust way, and that's why we are coming down so hard. If you play more then just the narrow strip of the game you've been playing, you'll see the issue we've identified.

Play the game how you wish, no one is going come confiscate your books. Just understand that you aren't playing the same game as the rest of us, so there's only so much help we can give you and your players.

I've just seen Lord of the Rings and I'm annoyed that elves can only go up to level 5 as fighters. I watched all the movies and Legolas should be much more badass than that. He kills pretty much everybody all by himself.

I should add that I'm only using my AD&D player's handbook that came out in 1977, so it's possible there have been updates or rules changes since. Anyway, I don't care about that, but I think elves should start out as 20th level Fighters and that's going to be how I house rule it.

My decision is to allow 320xp at chargen with a max of 160xp for characteristics.

Christ that's terrible. I won't bother explaining why. Other have and you clearly aren't interested in listening.

Your call, naturally. But you did come here asking for advice.

But bear in mind what you can achieve with only 2 FD, and 3 makes it exponentially easier to play ATAT Skittles. AT 2 FD, you have a 1 in 9 chance of getting four pips. With 3, that skyrockets from 11% to about 70%. And we just saw what you can do with that. The game is pretty balanced for the most part; even one extra Force dice makes a massive difference.

Just be aware that allowing easy access to Force dice will seriously impact the way your game plays.

It's no more dice than they could get without the house-rule. Preventing specializations in force careers means they don't get multiple talent trees in which to grab Force Rating increases (Force and Destiny). They may start with an extra force dice, but they won't be able to keep up with "core" characters. And yes, I'm sincerely hoping that it will seriously impact the way our game plays. That was the point.

But again, thank you for your input.

I think Erik found his GM.

Like everyone else, I think these are horrible ideas that would make your game terribly not-fun.

However you seem pretty committed to doing them, so I'd say just go for it and see what happens. It could work out for your group and then everybody's happy!

I think Erik found his GM.

If I could like this more than once, I would.

My decision is to allow 320xp at chargen with a max of 160xp for characteristics.

Christ that's terrible. I won't bother explaining why. Other have and you clearly aren't interested in listening.

He’s basically re-building existing characters. So, from that point of view, I don’t see how 320xp is necessarily bad.

What I don’t understand is why he’s calling this “chargen” at all? What not just call it a re-spec, let the players take the XP they currently have, and then use that to re-build their characters using the new systems?

Sure, you’d want to limit how much they could put into Characteristics, but converting existing experienced characters is not at all what I would call “character generation”. You’re not “generating” these characters, you’re simply re-creating them to be more up-to-date with the current rule systems.

Why not even start with the same Characteristics they already have, and just re-spec the career and specialization trees, etc…?

As others have said the OP is running their own game, and no one is going to break the door down and take them away to RPG prison.

OTOH, there is a lot of flexibility in the game system now that wasn’t there years ago, and before deciding to throw out the current character generation system and replace it with something else, why not explore a bit more what can be done with a simpler re-spec?

He’s basically re-building existing characters. So, from that point of view, I don’t see how 320xp is necessarily bad.

Because he's allowing the PCs to use this starting XP to buy Characteristics, Brad.

Normally, you can only do this at character generation, and you get 100XP or less to do so (unless you're human).

So he's basically allowing his PCs to have ludicrous starting Characteristics, which as many people here have said, will pretty much skew the game difficulty. Usually at best, a human will have 14 Characteristic points overall (2,2,3,3,3,3 with +10 obligation) and other species will have less.

This guy is starting with something in the region of 20 as Whafrog mentions above.

I think Erik found his GM.

If I could like this more than once, I would.

Is it bad that some part of me misses the utter lunacy of the AoR Beta days?

Didn't we get a thread up to 50+ pages at one point?

what you're talking about is changing the core mechanics of the game. when you feel the need ot do that, move to a diffenent game. with what you are saying, try the D20 or saga. that's how they run it.

i know my last comment sounded a little snarky, and i apologize for that. honestly, read the book and try it by the rules written. what you are talking about is the core of advancment and customization of your characters. it is SUPPOSED to be near impossible to advance your primary stats after creation. in exchange, you can get better skills and talents. this is also a reward for delving as much into your trees as you have, and a reason not to just take one or two talents from it and move on. it makes you think about your character and their goals, as well as plan your advancment. it makes you think about your role in the group. and what it will take for your party to be successful.

house rules are best when used make minor changes to make a game run smoother, not to change the core mechanics. there are other versions of star wars that are better suited for the changes you feel necessary for this. the D6 version. more readily avialable is the D20 versions.

that said, the consencous is to try it as is. and i agree with it.

btw, don't ask for our advice, then insult us. this game is cinamatic by design. most of us do run cinamatic style games.

Your call, naturally. But you did come here asking for advice.

But bear in mind what you can achieve with only 2 FD, and 3 makes it exponentially easier to play ATAT Skittles. AT 2 FD, you have a 1 in 9 chance of getting four pips. With 3, that skyrockets from 11% to about 70%. And we just saw what you can do with that. The game is pretty balanced for the most part; even one extra Force dice makes a massive difference.

Just be aware that allowing easy access to Force dice will seriously impact the way your game plays.

It's no more dice than they could get without the house-rule. Preventing specializations in force careers means they don't get multiple talent trees in which to grab Force Rating increases (Force and Destiny). They may start with an extra force dice, but they won't be able to keep up with "core" characters. And yes, I'm sincerely hoping that it will seriously impact the way our game plays. That was the point.

But again, thank you for your input.

Your call, naturally. But you did come here asking for advice.

But bear in mind what you can achieve with only 2 FD, and 3 makes it exponentially easier to play ATAT Skittles. AT 2 FD, you have a 1 in 9 chance of getting four pips. With 3, that skyrockets from 11% to about 70%. And we just saw what you can do with that. The game is pretty balanced for the most part; even one extra Force dice makes a massive difference.

Just be aware that allowing easy access to Force dice will seriously impact the way your game plays.

It's no more dice than they could get without the house-rule. Preventing specializations in force careers means they don't get multiple talent trees in which to grab Force Rating increases (Force and Destiny). They may start with an extra force dice, but they won't be able to keep up with "core" characters. And yes, I'm sincerely hoping that it will seriously impact the way our game plays. That was the point.

But again, thank you for your input.

yes, and no. it kinda is. to buy one new point in your primaries after character gen, you have to buy the dedication talent, which can cost over 100 points to reach. to get the second, you have to buy a new specilization and then the tree and then the dedicaiton talent. two points can easily cost 250 xp. take what your doing, and the compariable cheap costs of skills, that's a lot of yellow being thrown about.

Is Erik still around? I remember he got a new username that he used on the AoR boards a lot.

I just hope he's been using the Beta Errata from this website, there's a huge amount of changes to the game, including the removal of the Surveillance skill and numerous weapon quality revisions. Though if he has he should have noticed EotE came out a year and a half ago. But whatever, half the sessions I've run were using the Beta and the core of the game is the same.

This is a lot of long-winded armchair design discussion over what should be the simple notion of starting PCs with more points for stats and characteristics.

I kind of agree that it can be frustrating having to chose between starting Characteristics (which are a hard resource to obtain many sessions later later) and skills (which come regularly and easily) in the beginning, But anyone whose played the game for a long time should be able to conclude that any workarounds are either of marginal value and/or don't need any fancy additional rules or systems to accomplish.

My advice on the best way to bulk up available XP to character gen: Give them an extra 150XP or so *after* spending their starting XP.

Experience with the game suggests allowing for more points on characteristics too quickly escalates the game and the requirement for higher difficulty challenges and upgraded dice. Don't bother using base difficulties under Hard in such case. But adding extra XP after chargen is ultimately lettings the PCs skip the amount of sessions to progress that far into the 'story'. You wanna skip the movie trilogy and jump straight into The Courtship of Princess Leia? Sure, go ahead.

So basically simply follow the Knight level play suggested in the F&D Beta. It's not complex math.

But he doesn't want them to have more XP. He wants them to have massively inflated Characteristics, something that's simply not possible under the normal rules because you can only increase these at character creation with a very small pool of initial XP. He also wants Force Dice to be a characteristic, which is insanely game breaking.

Force dice and Characteristic increases are deliberately rare in the game, achievable only by digging deep into a Specialisation. What he's suggesting will completely change the game. That's his prerogative, but he did come on a forum asking what we thought.

As MM hinted with his ErikB comment, it sounds like this guy is simply disappointed his PCs are not Mace Windu right out of the box, and thinks a SW game should play like Force Unleashed instead of the relatively restrained game FFG gave us.

Is Erik still around? I remember he got a new username that he used on the AoR boards a lot.

I think he got banned, then came back for a bit under a different name, and now he seems to have gone for good.

I always felt more frustrated than angered by him, personally, He admitted he didn't play any of the games and just wanted to be a fanboy for x-wings and overpowered Jedi. Hopefully he found a forum more suited to his interests.

I think you're referring to Sylpheed. He's still a member, but hasn't posted since October. Perhaps coincidentally, that's the same day a FFG webmaster visited his profile...

Unlike the AluminumWolf tag, both the ErikB and Sylpheed tags are still usable. I don't think either has been banned. I think he's either created yet another tag or actually moved on. Hopefully to find others of similar mindset. Even if he were to find a game it would still be difficult for him and his viewpoint as he felt that Jedi should be the uber heroes above everyone else. So even though the game allowed for such heroes given enough xp, few people are interested in such a mismatched game group as it would recall many of the issues from earlier games, especially d20. So he got what he wanted, in a way, but still no one to play with.

Anyways, as many have said, for more beefier characters, add xp after initial chargen. Either via "knight" level play or more. Or hand out more xp after play so they can buy stuff faster. I do this as my group doesn't play often and I want them to enjoy getting new abilties.

Is Erik still around? I remember he got a new username that he used on the AoR boards a lot.

I Think you guys made the Op mad and he took hid beta and went home.

Be nice. Disagree with his posts all you want, but please don't make belittling comments towards or about the poster.

But he doesn't want them to have more XP. He wants them to have massively inflated Characteristics, something that's simply not possible under the normal rules because you can only increase these at character creation with a very small pool of initial XP. He also wants Force Dice to be a characteristic, which is insanely game breaking.

Force dice and Characteristic increases are deliberately rare in the game, achievable only by digging deep into a Specialisation. What he's suggesting will completely change the game. That's his prerogative, but he did come on a forum asking what we thought.

As MM hinted with his ErikB comment, it sounds like this guy is simply disappointed his PCs are not Mace Windu right out of the box, and thinks a SW game should play like Force Unleashed instead of the relatively restrained game FFG gave us.

I agree that this would cause problems (some GMs have enough trouble devising challenges as it is once PCs obtain a couple primary skills at YYYG), but his intention didn't appear to be super-heroes and we've alienated him by claiming that's the result he wants (rather that what he's achieved).

What he initially said was he wanted to fix the 'problem' of only having 90XP to spend on initial characteristics and skills/talents, and to make starting PCs more 'cinematic'. The simplest response would have been "We don't agree it's broken but if by 'cinematic' you mean super-heroic, go ahead. Otherwise, just give extra XP after chargen to skip the early adventuring."

Which were some of the points that came up, but I can see how he'd feel ganged up on. Sure, his whole premise is wrong and yeah, he sounds like he's spent the last two years indulging in armchair design ideas without applying any actual testing or discussion or critical input from anyone else. But a little less hyperbole and admonishment for being stuck in his own head would have been preferable.

This guy is clearly not ErikB; you could throw rocks at that guy and he wouldn't even notice. Erik once said Jedi should use a totally separate rule system so that the abilities and power levels of PCs couldn't be compared between the two. X-wings with 5 armor was too little for him. No interest in actually playing the game, he just wanted to advertise his opinion.

Is Erik still around? I remember he got a new username that he used on the AoR boards a lot.

I Haven't Seen Him For A While

There haven't been any posts with whole articles on North Korea and WW2 here, so he must not have made a new user account either.