Hello all.

Obviously, this is a card game, so it's very abstract as far as what is going on in Middle Earth as you play. This may even be weird, but I imagine in my mind's eye what is going on as I play the game.

For example, the heroes commit to a quest. The encounter deck flips a card. It's a Forest Spider. To me, our heroes happened to be on their journey (through Mirkwood or whatever), and the Forest spider spots them and stalks them until it is time to encounter (whether willingly - i.e., my threat is above his - and he attacks, or I willingly engage). Let's say I then 'travel' to this location. Let's also say the spider engages.

So when the spider is 'engaged' with me, I imagine a continues battle going on. This is where my disconnect happens.

I have heroes and allies that commit to a quest, leaving those who are not committed to the quest to battle the spider.

So... what is this an abstract of? In the middle of a fight, a few characters run off to go search a location? They then come back for a turn, maybe take a blow from the spider, then take off again next turn to go on a quest? The timing here is messed up in my mind. Either the fight with the spider is taking weeks and is an engagement that is off and on constantly as they are stalked by the spider on their adventure, or my heroes and allies are The Flash.

"Okay, guys... I'll be right back... gotta quest..." and they zoom off in a cloud of dust and then suddenly reappear, panting.

What do you guys imagine? Can you help me change the way I think about it?

What do you guys imagine?

Arwen and Galadriel....

Ahem, Ok, ok back to the spider. Yeah does seem a bit odd. I always imagined them splitting in a rear guard and the others going ahead while the rear guard fought the spider. Wich is either doing hit and run attacks or actually abunch of spiders, or stalking them...

Yeah i dunno a good way to explain it either.

See? This is why i play netrunner. (But in that game i get confused in that the hackers get to make make more credits (money) than the mega corporations!)

I just see numbers and effects for the most part. When I see the new cards and see how thematic they are, I get excited, but when I'm in the game, it rarely means anything. I just wanna win.

Maybe it would help if you didn't imagine engaged enemies as a continuous battle. Maybe each round/attack represents a fight. The Spider makes some advances and the heroes fight back, but if the Spider survives it might sneak back into the shadows and wait for the next opportune moment. While it is waiting to strike again the whole party can continue questing.

Otherwise, if you interpret attacks as literally one swing of the sword, the vast majority of your battles would be over in seconds. I prefer to think of a single attack as a back-and-forth fight that probably lasts several minutes. The defender is thematically the guy that takes the first attack and makes sure the enemy doesn't get to the rest of the party. The attacker is thematically whoever actually kills the enemy or chases them off, even though both the attacker and defender are engaged with the enemy at the same time.

That depends. Hard, pressuring games often squeezy theme out of them easily, replacing it with countless considerations and calculations.

I wonder how gave events would be stylized in the game if it ever gone digital. In digital MtG visuals were pretty neat.

I imagine nothing. The game is completely abstract, while people can force meaning on things the game itself has no innate theme. The quests tell a story and stuff but in a jumbled bullet point kind of way. It takes strong imagination to compile everything into a story. Anyone who says otherwise is probably unaware of how much they are imposing on the game. Just a few questions and you find they are completely ignoring things or adding stuff. This game is abstract.

You could say the same thing about almost every game. LotR can be as abstract or thematic as you want it to be.

Not really. Unlike true thematic games there are massive disconnects between the mechanisms and what they represent. A great and often cited example is having giant eagles flying around inside a mountain.

I think the point to take though is that it matters so little. The game is good not in spite of its thematic inconsistencies but because of them.

It is true. Staying "thematic" is largely up to the player, and the decks he/she creates. Eagles in quests like "The Long Dark" is a bit odd, but perfectly legal, as far as rules go. Sometimes I sacrifice theme for efficiency. Sometimes I sacrifice efficiency for the sake of theme. The main point of the game - or indeed any game, as I see it - is to have fun!

Not in the least a problem for me. I enjoy playing bot thematically, and in order to simply beat a quest!

This is how I see it as well. Like while you can thematically explain **** like northern tracker exploring the traveled locations ahead of you through the mechanisms of the game it is a little harder to explain say Westroad Traveler instantly teleporting an entire party to any location.

These things and the eagle thing are thematic inconsistencies with the game itself, though the mechanisms. Still there is another type of theme that games can be about and that is in the "story" it creates. This game is much more in that vien, I liken it to a series of bullet points. So the game is abstract and then forms a series of events that you can use as a skeleton to make a story, though itself dose NOT make a story. Much imagination is needed.

A big often cited problem with this idea is the time period, we have unique and heroes from all over the time period of middle earth how can all be in the same group or how arbitrary the traveled location is and how it dosn't in anyway represent the parties location in a thematic sense, only a abstract one.

Some people just lack a colorful imagination. LotR does bring with it much in the way of theme but like all card games they are limited in a fashion. Anyone who says otherwise is probably unaware of how dull and number-crunchy a personality they possess. Just a few glances at the card-art and the rules as a whole, and you find that the world easily springs to life on it´s own. This game is thematic.

I think the point to take though is that you can get from the game, what you want to get from the game. This game is good because of its thematic consistencies not in spite of them.

So sayeth we all!

I don't find the game too abstract to form a mini-story but then again I DM dungeons and dragon games and have little problem forming basic storylines off hooks in wing-it-up fashion. For example, questing isn't necessarily a treck through badlands, it can also mean lending support from your seat of power, like lady Galadriel or Steward of Gondor. Sometimes an ally is just a guy when exploring Moria, but it is a regiment during the Siege of Cair Andros...

I like it.

I don't find the game too abstract to form a mini-story but then again I DM dungeons and dragon games and have little problem forming basic storylines off hooks in wing-it-up fashion. For example, questing isn't necessarily a treck through badlands, it can also mean lending support from your seat of power, like lady Galadriel or Steward of Gondor. Sometimes an ally is just a guy when exploring Moria, but it is a regiment during the Siege of Cair Andros...

I like it.

exactly, it is abstracted bullet points of story you flesh out yourself.

In my opinion, the battle is not abstract at all, you have one character per card (almost always) fighting one against another. The abstraction appears when you commit characters to the quest. In that moment, the characters just spend their time (and get exhausted) doing whatever is needed in order to achieve their current goal in the adventure, not just walking through locations sayong hello to the revealed enemies.

Questing is mostly traveling and exploring, though. So I tend to think of the questing characters as forward scouts. They find a path or make a trail, see what threats are in the area and determine what else there is to explore. Everyone else just follows along after the initial scouting, doing a lot less work.

I don't worry about the timing since the game is abstract. As you travel through the locations and fight one monster several turns I view it as:

The company started at point A and made their way through the marshes and the forest too reach point B. Along the journey they happened upon a menacing spider and a few orcs. Some Silvan allies and ents came to their aid. One of the ents was killed defending Frodo from the spider.

Or something along those lines. At the end of the game a tale can be told, I like winning in this game but I like the Tolkien theme more. Many times I will not put cards in my deck because they don't fit the scenario.

I do the same as thorn678 but when it comes to the disconnect for me it is a case of the questing heroes have gone on ahead to check out whats over the next hill, down the road...etc and those who are taking the steady pace get jumped by the monsters and villains.