For those who don't know Darnok is a very reliable rumour monger. So this post may shed some light on what has been happening with WFRP.
The post is geared towards WFB and what is coming up in 9th.

If you like Warhammer, I suggest you better take a seat.

Over the last few months I got a few glimpses on what WHF could change to in the very near future. I have collected messages, asked questions, and tried to form a somewhat coherent picture. The one thing I believe by now is: Warhammer in its current form will no longer be supported by GW. It will be transformed into something else, with everything built up in background and most of the model range being kicked out of the door.

To give you an insight into some of the messages I got, have a look at the following. Please note that I am paraphrasing at times, and have cut out (hopefully) everything that could lead to the original identities of my friendly birdies.

Originally Posted by Birdy

- 9th Edition to pick up where the ET leaves off in fluff, plus a couple of hundred years or so (to reboot the setting).

- The Warhammer World gets shattered on a dimensional level during the climax of the ET. No more "map of the Old World" - it's now little bubbles of reality, where pockets of civilisation try desperately to eke a living before the next collision with another bubble, which may be full of Chaos. (To address the problem of "how come my Tomb Kings of Khemri are fighting against Wood Elves from Athel Loren?", not that I get the impression that either of those will still exist, but you get the idea)

- New faction... heavily armoured, religious, "good" human warriors fighting with the power of the gods. (Warhammer Space Marines, basically). Karl Franz Ascended seems to be the prototype or precursor for this concept, AFAICT.

Originally Posted by Another Birdy

9th edition will have 6 factions. Model diversity cut in half shelf space. New world and new age so current factions and lore aren't recognizable at all. Each new faction has like 3 core units that will always be on the shelf. Much faster releases of stuff, mainly characters and special units of 2-5 fancy models (like Morghasts) that have their own rules right in the box, so not dependent on a static army book. Many of the these non-core models are only available for a limited time (say 6 months to a year), so they don't take up shelf space forever and ever. Many existing models are not usable in 9th.

Originally Posted by Birdy #3

We can expect the next edition of Fantasy to throw everything up in the air. The whole End Times move has been to wean people onto a whole new take on the Warhammer world and it's going to start with every army being "chaosified". We can expect army play styles and appearance to change quite dramatically and there will be a whole load of new models being released early on to tie everything together. This has caused quite a stir back at GW HQ as there are a lot of people behind the scenes (some of which are very well known to us) who don't like the changes that have been made. I have also been told that the models due to be released are some of the best to date!

Add to that (and by "Birdy Prime" I mean my best source so far):

Originally Posted by Birdy Prime

'9th' [or] whatever is next for fantasy [...] coming 2015 in the summer. The new faction [plus] future releases after this point for five 'existing' factions (which plus this would make six) […] but I think there will be [...] more.

As you can see, it will be drastic. It seems like those „Spanish rumours“ might have had some more flesh on them than I thought: I am by now sorry for my sometimes nasty words about them. And despite my remorse about ever mentioning it, I think my statement about a „ragestorm of epic proportions“ could have been correct after all.

This whole thing will turn out to be either correct or not in less than six months. Hopefully we can get over our worst emotions until then.


P.S.: I have sat on most of this since right before Christmas, but decided I didn't want to ruin anybodies holidays. I also had high hopes for somebody relieving me from this stuff... but that hope was lost.

Original Thread Here: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?404065-Warhammer-And-Now-For-Something-Completely-Different

Yeah, I don't know if this or poor sales or both is part of why FFG ceased publishing WFRP stuff, the End Times stuff is essentially trashing this setting from a roleplaying game perspective - particularly if you liked "grim and muddy" "enemy within" sort of stuff more than high fantasy stuff - in the interest of wargame perspective.

I follow the End Times stuff but only to use what bits I like not to template my setting on it, so thanks for the heads up.

I'm more interested in exploring the setting as it is and filling in things like Southlands work I am doing than seeing it all "trimmed back" and hashed. Kill some big names sure, but don't kill the setting.

Yeah. I've picked up the End Times books, and will be getting the Skaven one this week. I mostly paint rather than play these days - but this stil has taken me by surprise although I guess the reasons for it may be valid..

In relation to WFRP, I can really see this being the reason it wasn't renewed. If this setting is being pushed 200 years into the future with such dramatic changes it completely changes the nature of the world and removes a lot of the gritty low fantasy elements.
It's possible it will see a new type of WFRP once the dust settles - but for obvious reasons (primarily GW's lack of communication with its audience), releasing the new WFRP and associated fluff before the Wargamers have transitioned would be deeply problematic.

Further rumours.:

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/important-information-about-changes-to.html

via a very solid source on Faeit 212
Let me give you some confirmation:
The setting is being completely overhauled - true.
The concept of a huge chunks of the world in a sea similar to the warp from 40k - true.
Faction reduction to 6 - true


As for how it interacts with the current rules.
9th edition takes place after the sundering that brought about from the End Times.

So for the purposes of compatibility, you can use your 8th edition hardback book, representing a section of the culture that hasn't been horrifically changed by the End Times (Recognizing it will have the same drawbacks of using a dated book that are experienced elsewhere).

You can use End Times rules/concepts, representing a section that is still being torn apart.

You can use the new, post-end times rules to represent what is "current."


All the books (again, with the caveat that older books may not be optimal for the new core rules [but truthfully the core rules aren't changing wildly, like 5th to 6th edition 40k, really more of a tidied up 8th edition with a brand new setting]) are designed to be compatible.

Support will be towards the new book, new setting, however, with End Times being in the past. Viable, but not current.

Expect armies to have fewer units in their core books, which will be heavily focused on the fluff for where they are now, what they've been doing in the centuries immediately following the sundering. This will create a more "balanced" pool as they will be rapidly produced and released (consider a scale even somewhat faster than what we've had for 40k these past few years).


These will then be expanded on with supplements, not intended as money-grabs (as I am sure they will be received by the majority of your readers), but more as guided hands to acknowledge deficiencies in books, or even "global meta" changes. The first time that Games Workshop will be openly acknowledging things that need changes.

These units will typically get white dwarf rules treatments heralding the release in hardback of all of the new units from the previous month(s), for a new setting expansion, which will pit several of the races together (representing a collision).

As these expansions are not permanent in the world, so too will these models not be. They are intended to only get one template injection mold life-run, the same as the books will be printed only once in hardback, then delayed paperback.

They will of course remain legal throughout all of 9th, they will just be more limited eventually, the same as the end time models will not be available forever, the same as XYZ model is no longer available (just with a shorter life span than previous experienced). I mean... you can't get albion models anymore either, but that campaign was before people whined on the internet, so I guess that's why no one's complaining.

This will allow for more new models, as contrary to common belief, the storage and rejuvenation of these templates takes a lot of resources which can be instead dedicated to new ones.


On the topic of round bases. The latest version I saw used round bases, but units had the option of ranking up to receive the typical bonuses. To rank up using round bases, it is intended to use new movement trays which have circular cuts to hold the bases of the appropriate size.

Nothing stops you from (and in many ways you are encouraged to) maintain unit formation the entire game. But you don't have to. Note that throughout all of Warhammer Fantasy, changing width/depth was an option, it's just rarely seen.

So to summarize - you can skirmish, but it's in your interests to rank up for different reasons, like shield walling before a charge for instance. You can alternatively always hold a formation and move the way we're all used to.

----

This will be a very big change. It is not because GW doesn't care about its old players and just wants to attract new ones. It is not to fill a void that will come from the fading of Lord of the Rings (which will remain in stores and be supported for a long time due to the agreement with New Line Cinemas).

It is just a very fresh look at a game that hasn't changed dramatically in how it's played since the dawn of the game and company. It will give everyone the opportunity and hopefully inspiration to do something new, but without invalidating everything from the past. It is opening room for creativity, not closing doors.


Yes, army books will eventually feel too out of date to play, but that's the same with any new edition. And new Army Books will typically allow people to recreate what they're "used to" it just might not be the most effective thing they could do with their new book.

The new faction are basically the opposite of warriors of chaos, but good the way chaos marines are the opposite of space marines but evil (in terms of broad tropes, I really hope this doesn't spawn some kind of debate about the morality of space marines).

Lastly, nothing stops you from just playing 8th, and ignoring 9th the same way some people ignore End Times. Just understand that unlike Storm of Chaos which was post-production looked at as an "alternate timeline" where the clock was turned back to right before it took place for the purposes of the setting, the End Times are real, and 9th will begin where it left off.

Was about to post on this, seems I was beaten to the punchline.

Personally this to me is awful, I love the Warhammer setting so to destroy it for mini planes of reality leaves me speechless if I'm honest. I've played Warhammer on and off for 25 years but what double sucks is I think 8th edition sucks as several core mechanics have increased the effect luck plays in the game over skill and so I hear GW are not only destroying the setting I love but replacing it with a rules based around an edition I seriously dislike.

Yet it gets worse, a New Space Marine (I Loathe everything about Space Marines they are just dull) style faction, models going onto round bases, limited release models with Stat cards (Never understood them, I could provide the statistic line, rule, special ability, or weapon rules for any thing in Warhammer, 40k, Necromunda, Mordhiem, Bloodbowl, Wfrp 2ed, or 3rd ed from memory without blinking and with only a tiny amount of error... seriously what's the point of these things!) sounds like Special Characters or unique units with no room for creating your own history/style here, which is another step towards taking the character from the game.

It looks to me like they are not only trying to create 40k Fantasy but will be doing the thing that stopped me playing 40k when 3rd edition came out. Dumbing down the system because people are too stupid to play complex games, a trend that has been gaining more and more momentum over the last decade to such an extent that some companies pride themselves and in fact have based there entire business strategy on such boring, uninteresting depth lacking sets of Mechanics because it seems games I taught myself to play when I was 7 years old are far to difficult for adults to enjoy. (I taught myself 2nd Edition Dnd - which is truthfully a complex game, alongside 2nd ed 40k and 3ed Warhammer - incredibly simple by comparision, by which I mean I picked up the books and read them and understood the mechanics). This trend, combined with the trend of special characters or unique units is actually driving me away from Table Top gaming, I could go on for a long time on this but it will actually cause my post to get moderated as I descend into offensiveness, so I will conclude this point by saying that I find the industries current stance to be one that states we think are customers are to stupid to enjoy or play anything more complex than snakes and ladders so lets make our own version of that.. I know Slides and Monkey Bars.

The thing that really gets me, is I've not found a Fantasy alternative to Warhammer that does not fall under a system like I described above and I've been looking for several years now... I am just glad I've just built a new high end Gaming PC as it seems tabletop games are not something I'm going to be able to play without feel exasperated in the near future.

As a WFRP fan (though one who discovered the game via an initial interest of the tabletop miniatures - which has since been supplanted by a love of the RPG) I can't be the only one who reads through the above rumours and finds each and every aspect of GW's future vision of the Warhammer world truly depressing

What a shame that they couldn't accommodate their thirst for yet more miniature related money making melee mayhem without stampeding all over the bones of a once great ally in it's Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay sibling. A sad sad state of affairs indeed

Question:

I was looking into starting Warhammer Fantasy. For my own reasons this might just draw me into the game. But the final selling point is behind the scenes roleplaying.

So....

Is it worth trying to get the core rules, or should I wait and see what happens?

I could always use Dark Heresy 2nd Edition. There's plenty of primitive and black powder weapons, armour up to carapace and plenty of scope for house ruling.

Question:

I was looking into starting Warhammer Fantasy. For my own reasons this might just draw me into the game. But the final selling point is behind the scenes roleplaying.

So....

Is it worth trying to get the core rules, or should I wait and see what happens?

I could always use Dark Heresy 2nd Edition. There's plenty of primitive and black powder weapons, armour up to carapace and plenty of scope for house ruling.

Honestly there is nothing wrong with WFRP 2nd or 3rd edition as it stands, will there be a 4th edition with new background who knows? I think it depends more on what you need from the system, if you want setting material then its 2nd edition all the way as far as I'm concerned but if your looking for a IMO better set of mechanics (in concept though they need some work) then 3rd edition is the way to go. The 2nd Edition rules really need updating to introduce some ideas that are part of the Dark Heresy rules (1 & 2 edition) but are very extensive in terms of content material that's been explored while the 3rd edition is really setting material light.

Regarding the changes I also know that none of the above stops me playing previous editions using the setting I prefer (wfb or wfrp) but at least for wfb this will become increasingly difficult in terms of opponents and acquiring miniatures that are required the further time moves on which is sadly means at some point its going to become less and less a workable solution.

Yeah.
The changes listed above are primarily for the WFB wargame, rather than the WFRP game.
It's hard to say how WFB changes will impact WFRP until the setting and fluff is unveiled. I'd be surprised if they changed the grimdark nature of it - but who knows.

I dislike Space Marines too! but the sell well and I rather GW kept making fantasy than giving up on it. I play undead (6000 points) and skaven(400 points) and just this Christmas started a Dark Elf Army.

So I can definitly understand the need to shake up the game and reduce model count. (So many clanrats!)

The statcards make sense. Especially if you are younger/poor. It means they can release new models without having to print a new book with the stats (the updated spirit host models for example!) - using White Dwarf is problematic as it means that once WD sells out - you'll have to get the rules elsewhere. Putting them in the box is elegant.

I'm cautiously optimistic for WFB - but worried all the same.
I wonder if this is why there's no news of 4th ed for WFRP though..

Ok, so You all know or almost all know that I'm a fan of the setting. I keep up with all the news and rumours. Also I was the one that was one of the first who made here a topic about WFRP 4e. So know You all have an anwser why it's not already announced - The End Times.

I readed all of them, now I will read Thanquol, and I see how it all effects very much the universe. Let's call End Times a prelude for a bigger change. There will be no more Old World becouse it's , like I see it, absorbed by the Warp and then ripper apart. There will be only chunks of reality flowting in it. The reality is thorn into smaller worlds, buble of reality like in some rumours they call it, and from time to time they colide. On this collision the two world met and comes to war. It has a little bit of W40k feeling into it. The fractions are reduced to 6 ot 7 and one of the coolest id a merge of all humans, dwarfs and ogres into one. The humans also will be ruled by only one true Emperor. And the time line is taking us a lot a head becouse it will be set almost 100-200 years after End Times. This all sound like a prelude to W40k or a part of it. But I look at it with optimistic thoughts.

1st it will give creators a lot more free space to make new stuff. Not only for battle but other things like board games or RPG. FFG could benefit from it making a big stratery game for 2 - 6 players with a ever changing map when players control fractions to diminate the relaity or archive a goal of some sort. And RPG could have a different feeling, now the split of WFRP lines would make a lot more sense.

2nd the game will change from Dark&Grim to much more Darker&Grimmer maybe with even a postapocaliptic feeling.

3rd it's my favoured becouse I enjoy skirmish, the game will be a lot more skirmish type. So You can play with less figures on smaller spaces and still have a lot of fun.

Also remember that rumours are not always true but in this case many sources say the same and some confirmed what we been hearing. But all of all I would gladly see a new Warhammer Fantasy game from FFG be it a board game or RPG that would use the new setting.

cheers

Yeah. I've picked up the End Times books, and will be getting the Skaven one this week. I mostly paint rather than play these days - but this stil has taken me by surprise although I guess the reasons for it may be valid..

In relation to WFRP, I can really see this being the reason it wasn't renewed. If this setting is being pushed 200 years into the future with such dramatic changes it completely changes the nature of the world and removes a lot of the gritty low fantasy elements.

It's possible it will see a new type of WFRP once the dust settles - but for obvious reasons (primarily GW's lack of communication with its audience), releasing the new WFRP and associated fluff before the Wargamers have transitioned would be deeply problematic.

When you do, could you tell me if the new vermin lords are any good? The normal ones are rather useless. Good in melee, good caster (never double dip.), but you can't protect him at all and he'll simply die to cannonfire. Are the new ones any good? I might just get one for the looks alone because **** they look nice! Might need 5....

The stats for the verminlords have been posted online somewhere. I'll try find them if yu like. From what I've read, people don't seem to be too excited by the stats on them but I rarely game so can't really comment.

The Stormvermin(I think thats their name) are apparently very solid though. But I'm not fond of the models.. (Might just be the ultramarine paint job!)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kjCq5iYagVw/VLBhaVcmO6I/AAAAAAAAmDc/uN0_LQfYgqc/s1600/giant-rat-monster.png

Those look bigger then my stormvermin... Seems to be a similar paint scheme that the new stormtroopers got.

Looks awesome, glad clan Moulder is getting some love.

Those are not Stormvermin, they are a new type of Rat Ogre that's been heavily modified by Clan Skyre, the rules I've seen for them are brutal, unlike the Vermin lords as was mentioned above who are rather Meh.

Really? I have normal rat ogres and they're...not that great. Die way too easy. I'd love to get a few and maybe stomp my empire and brettonia friends. And these guys won't blow up in my face like the Warp Lightning Cannons!

Here's my view on this new rumoured setting

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

That's what it's all about.

Here we go again , a full new set of rules from combat to magic and religion

It wasn't broken so don't try and fix it

If the changes are so radical its not Warhammer Fantasy Role play. It's not the world we've invested so much time and effort in.

I won't be buying it

So "Dwarfs in Space" was too silly but "Space Marines in Not-Space" is totally a winner.

Well, just remember that the publication of new books doesn't make the books you love disappear. I'll still be getting plenty of enjoyment out of my old 2nd Edition stuff.

Dumbing down the system because people are too stupid to play complex games, a trend that has been gaining more and more momentum over the last decade

The same thing happened to Malifaux; which not only killed my interest in playing it but was also the final straw in driving me away from wargames in general.

I've found in my experience that a lot of times when people complain about "dumbing down" a game system, it's more about them being angry that the time they spent learning an unintuitive system now feels like it's gone to waste. The only thing that I think is risked by de-complicating a system is the possibility of losing options. Even if options are lost, that may also be a case of pruning poor/under-used options that over-complicate or don't compare favorably to other options. The problem with this is that no matter how bad an option is, you'll always find someone who loves it and is very vocal about it being taken out. So there has to be this balance of a system being made less complicated to keep a good number of options while also being brave enough to eliminate the cruft and unnecessary elements.

Also, claiming that any kind of hobby is being "dumbed down" because people are too "stupid" to play it is the saddest argument. Yes, when it comes to art, things get dumbed down for the mainstream and sanitized. When it comes to games, though, I recommend you sit and go through all the rules and rulings and strategies involved in national sports like U.S. football, basketball, football/soccer, cricket, or what have you. Go through any mainstream video games, call of duty included, and describe all of the options for characters, strategies, etc. People aren't too dumb to play or understand games. The game just needs to be rewarding enough to be worth their time.

I'm happy with the products I own. Any changes GW may make to the setting or any new edition of the rpg will have zero impact on my table. If folks pursue any new products I hope they have a good time. Fin.

A lot of interesting speculation I grant you! I have been reading the End Times novels as they have come out, with interest. The Warhammer World will be completely different after the End Times, possibly the fantasy equivalent of post-apocalyptic.

However all we do know about how the Warhammer world will look after the End Times is speculation. The End Times is not good roleplaying territory, so we will have to wait until the End Times end and we see what results.

One thing is for sure, there will almost certainly be a 4th edition to exploit this new "Old World". Hopefully it will still have the feel of the old, but with a new setting. Enough things to hark back without curtailing the new. Whether it will be any good will be entirely down to the writers. Firstly they will have to have a system that people want to use and most importantly has been properly playtested. Secondly they will have to make the new setting familiar enough, different enough and good enough to make people want to play it. At the end of the day it was the setting that made WFRP

double post...

A lot of interesting speculation I grant you! I have been reading the End Times novels as they have come out, with interest. The Warhammer World will be completely different after the End Times, possibly the fantasy equivalent of post-apocalyptic.

However all we do know about how the Warhammer world will look after the End Times is speculation. The End Times is not good roleplaying territory, so we will have to wait until the End Times end and we see what results.

One thing is for sure, there will almost certainly be a 4th edition to exploit this new "Old World". Hopefully it will still have the feel of the old, but with a new setting. Enough things to hark back without curtailing the new. Whether it will be any good will be entirely down to the writers. Firstly they will have to have a system that people want to use and most importantly has been properly playtested. Secondly they will have to make the new setting familiar enough, different enough and good enough to make people want to play it. At the end of the day it was the setting that made WFRP

I think so too. I think Warhammer brand is so interesting, that some RPG company will buy the license and make some new edition (and GW will sell, to get money). And it will be, again, totally new game system.

But, it might be the most troublesome to sell of all the editions, because also the setting (the world) seems to change so radically. So, company needs to invent interesting new game system, sell totally new setting to all the Warhammer-fans (who might just hate the new setting) AND then get fans of THREE previous editions to get interested to buy new system. Offcourse there will alot fans who remain playing their favorite previous edition (hard to believe WFRP4 would be so innovative system that it would get most of the fans join).

The End Times have been interesting, but I fear they are changing the setting too much at the end. And that it becomes something - well, not so interesting. I hope all those bubble-hammer rumours are just hoax, but who knows.

trible post...