NOW YOU GOT IT!

Angron aproves!

Any other character you'd want me to get in a card version? I love doing Warlord sets! haha

We'll since you are reading book one: How about making the mournival and Lunawolf Horus?

Maybe include Luc Sedirae (if he has appeared in the novel yet) He was my fave Lunawolf/son of horus character.

I was thinking about the Mournival, i'm still deciding how to make them. A couple ideas are floating around.

Ezykielle abbadon = something offensive. like + attack when attacking exausted units.

Lil horus aximand = something similar to horus' abilty but weaker

Loken:= something balanced offensive/command?

tarik torgaddon = something defensive?

Man , I ate to much Mcdonalds tonight. Can't homebrew with my brain in a mickey D's induced coma.

Oh yeah Drop pod assault and that Landraider would be neutral cards. availabe to all legions.

One more thing: somewhere down the line we should make two new factions awell: Dark mechanicus for the traitor side and adeptus custodes for the loyalists.

One moooore thing! (I'm staring to sound like Uncle from Jackie chan adventures) I was thinking making two sets of primarch warlord cards:

Wave one: all 18 pre-heresy. (hail and bloodied abilities)

Wave two: all 18* during the heresy now with either the Traitor or Loyalist traits. (they still have hail and bloodied abilities)

* SPOILERS!

.

.

.

since Ferrus Manus dies on Istvaan V; His Heresy era warlord card will be "The broken legions" I haven( decided on stats and abilities but it should alow you to put Iron hands, Raven Guard and Salamanders in one deck (rather than the usual two faction allainces)

I am making more than one version for the Mournival, but only the Warlord. That would give me a direction after for the Signature Cards.

I have one crazy idea taking shape right now!

Here is my super crazy idea:

The Mournival
Warlord
-/- (No Bloodied side)
Cards: 12, Ressources: 2
Luna Wolf

-You can only include Space Marine and Neutral cards in your deck.
-You start the game with C aptain Ezekyiel Abaddon, Captain Tarik Torgaddon , Captain Horus Aximand and Captain Garviel Loken in your HQ.
-You cannot play Army units on your first turn.
-When committing your Warlord to a planet, you can move your Captains anywhere from HQ, but you must move at least 1 Captain where you point your dial and only at that planet will you get the Warlord bonuses for Command Struggle and Initiative.
-You lose the game when all 4 Captains are destroyed.

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FAQ:

Q: Are all 4 Captains part of the Signature Cards?

A: Yes

Q: What is the unit type of the Captains?

A: Army, but they will also have the Warlord trait.

Q: So if a card says ''Destroy target non-Warlord unit'', it doesn't work on them?

A: Correct

Q: Why can't we play Army units of the first turn?

A: In a typical first turn, you are able to play between 2 and 4 units with your starting ressources. It would make them really OP if you could end your your turn with the 4 Captains + 2-4 additional units.

Q: Then why do you give 12 cards starting hand? Since we only have 2 starting ressources...

A: The 12 cards represent the might of 4 combined Warlords and you don't have a Bloodied side. You need a way to help you play something else than Army units on first turn and a way to draw those Shield cards to protect them. Remember, you lose the game if all 4 are dead.

Q: Now, why only 2 ressources?

A: The 2 ressources are there to prevent piling up ressources because you don't have to pay for your first 4 units and you can still play attachments, supports and/or events.

Wow that's certainly an unique idea! It has a nice alternate playstyle expansion feel to it, like MTG Commander or WoW CCG raid decks.

LoL love that you already included a FAQ

So how strong are you gonna make each of the four captains?

Since these guys are warlords, does that mean you will win 3 to 4 command struggles each turn?

How about a dial for each of the four? if you have 3 core sets, you should have 6 lying around. Place a dial next to each captain and reveal them in the order of your choice.

Wow that's certainly an unique idea! It has a nice alternate playstyle expansion feel to it, like MTG Commander or WoW CCG raid decks.

LoL love that you already included a FAQ

So how strong are you gonna make each of the four captains?

Since these guys are warlords, does that mean you will win 3 to 4 command struggles each turn?

How about a dial for each of the four? if you have 3 core sets, you should have 6 lying around. Place a dial next to each captain and reveal them in the order of your choice.

It will take me probably at least until Monday to figure out how to make them and how strong they will be. They are 4 at a time on the field, so for sure I can't make them as strong as a single Warlord, but they won't be weak either. I also want to do the other 4 signature cards to have the full set of 8. That's the plan.

You can't win 3-4 struggles, it's part of their ability.

It was tempting to use them all over the place with a full Warlord bonus, but I wanted to represent the fact that you push the influence on 1 place to make it meaningful. It is still really strong to have a Warlord up to 4 different planets, but only per 1 turn will have enough influence to affect the outcome of the Command Struggle and Initiative.

So here is the full Warlord set! Enjoy! I will update the FAQ as much as I can with your questions as much as I can. Don't hesitate to ask people!

The Mournival
Warlord
-/- (No Bloodied side)
Cards: 12, Ressources: 2
Luna Wolf

-You can only include Space Marine and Neutral cards in your deck.
-You start the game with: F irst Captain Ezekyiel Abaddon, Captain Tarik Torgaddon , Captain ''Little'' Horus Aximand and Captain Garviel Loken in your HQ.
-You cannot play Army units on your first turn.
-When committing your Warlord to a planet, you can move your Captains anywhere from HQ, but you must move at least 1 Captain where you point your dial and only at that planet will you get the Warlord bonuses for Command Struggle and Initiative.
-You lose the game when all 4 Captains are destroyed.

Signature Cards

First Captain Ezekyel Abaddon
Army
Cost: -
Command: 0
3/4
Soldier, Luna Wolves, Elite, Warlord, Mournival
Combat Reaction : The first time this unit exhausts to attack each turn, you may exhausts target unit.

Captain ''Little'' Horus Aximand
Army
Cost: -
Command: 2
2/4
Soldier, Luna Wolves, Elite, Warlord, Mournival
After the Command Struggle is resolved at this planet, choose 1 :
-Draw 1 card
-Gain 1 ressource

Captain Garviel Loken
Army
Cost: -
Command: 1
2/4
Soldier, Luna Wolves, Elite, Warlord, Mournival
Deploy Interrupt : After both players have passed, you may play 1 card.

Captain Tarik Torgaddon
Army
Cost: -
Command: 0
Soldier, Luna Wolves, Elite, Warlord, Mournival
2/5
At the start of the turn, heal 1 damage from this unit.
After a unit takes damage at this planet, you may redirect any number of damage to this unit instead.

Abaddon's Command
Event
Cost: 1
Shield: 3
Power
Combat Reaction : When target unit exhausts to attack, that unit has +1 ATK and Armorbane for that attack.

Aximand's Command
Event
Cost: 0
Shield: 1
Tactic
Reaction : After you lose a Command Struggle at target non-first planet, skip the combat phase at that planet.

Loken's Command
Event
Cost: 1
Shield: 1

Power
Deploy Reaction : After your opponent has deployed a non-unique unit, deal 2 damage to that unit.

Torgaddon's Command
Event
Cost: 0
Shield: 0

Tactic
Reaction : When a unit takes damage, you may pay X ressources to prevent X damage instead.

--------------------------------------------

FAQ:

Q: Are all 4 Captains part of the Signature Cards?

A: Yes

Q: What is the unit type of the Captains?

A: Army, but they will also have the Warlord trait.

Q: So if a card says ''Destroy target non-Warlord unit'', it doesn't work on them?

A: Correct

Q: Why can't we play Army units of the first turn?

A: In a typical first turn, you are able to play between 2 and 4 units with your starting ressources. It would make them really OP if you could end your your turn with the 4 Captains + 2-4 additional units.

Q: Then why do you give 12 cards starting hand? Since we only have 2 starting ressources...

A: The 12 cards represent the might of 4 combined Warlords and you don't have a Bloodied side. You need a way to help you play something else than Army units on first turn and a way to draw those Shield cards to protect them. Remember, you lose the game if all 4 are dead.

Q: Now, why only 2 ressources?

A: The 2 ressources are there to prevent piling up ressources because you don't have to pay for your first 4 units and you can still play attachments, supports and/or events.

While I like the difference in design I feel it's creating a sub-game within a fan-game.

Personally I don't like that approach since it limits the player in terms of deckspace by quite some cards.

Not being able to play Army cards on the first turn also means if your opponent plays the same deck there essentially is no use for the first turn. Having no use for turns usually leads to akward games...

Feel free to continue the idea however as it is indeed something new. The downside of it imho is that you play the game with a very minimized ammount of options, starting with 12 cards is really cool but something like this would only work within a casual setting as much as the WoWtcg Raid decks don't work in a competative style.

Some Q's from me:

Q: All these Warlords in a single deck, why can't these "Warlords" just have a normal cost and be Unique, like the sub-commanders allready are in Conquest LCG? I feel the sub-commander design would reflect the young Abbadon very well.

Q: These Warlords did not only work under Loyal Space Marines and Neutral allies. Why can I not include these in my normal Horus deck or my Emperor deck?

Q: Where are the other 11 known members of the Mournival?

More Q's would come but again I feel the above design is creating a sub-game in a fan-game and I feel it would be a better idea to stay close to Conquest's own fundation but to alter upon it rather than creating a new game...

Still working on the set of Primarch's but so far have been progressing in a way I think would be very interesting.

Small spoiler:

- Inclusion of new Traits (will first add the list), among them is Primarch. a cost reductor for the Legion that is also on the same card. (example Primarch. World Eaters. will mean you pay 1 less Resource for cards with the World Eaters trait).

- Inculsion of incredible statlines for "Warlords" (further known as Primarch's in this game) 3/8 will be a common sight without Attachments, Bloodied 2/7. Don't worry they come at a (small) disadvantage aswell.

- Inclusion of a multitude of Unique weapons, who will be a more common sight in the 30.000 universe as in the 40.000 universe.

- Inclusion of the Worlds that played a major role in the Horus Heresy.

- A giant set of "Neutral" cards that will represent wheter your Primarch is fighting for the Emperor or has picked his side for the Dark Gods. Which in turn will allow you to re-write Warhammer 30.000 history...

Hope you like the above ideas, feel free to burn it down, I won't call it Heresy

Nah they are great! Especially the last bit so you can tailor your primarch to loyal traitor.

alternate history is awesome!.

(actually horus didn't get the allies he really wanted)

Horus AND Sanguinius vs the Emperor? hell yeah!

I have been a bit to busy lately to think up much cards but I'll probably add a few more in the comming days.

All hail Warmaster GUILLIMAN!

Nah they are great! Especially the last bit so you can tailor your primarch to loyal traitor.

alternate history is awesome!.

(actually horus didn't get the allies he really wanted)

Horus AND Sanguinius vs the Emperor? hell yeah!

I have been a bit to busy lately to think up much cards but I'll probably add a few more in the comming days.

All hail Warmaster GUILLIMAN!

Well that was the exact idea of this! It would also allow for maximum playability something I like. It's easy to put two factions out there in Good and Bad but imho it's much more interesting to mention neither within the faction but let the Primarch (Player) decide for himself. I also feel that Angron initially wasn't all that about killing mankind/etc. but much more intrested in a incredible match up, fighting against Primarchs, a fight between equals.

I also decided we could use some Quote templates to keep things as clear as possible as I currently am unable to make a nice standard template for cards (I lack photoshop)

+++ WARLORD TEMPLATE +++

Name:

Trait:

Ability:

ATK/HP:

CRD/RSC:

+++ ARMY TEMPLATE +++

Type: (Signature/Loyal/Open)

Name:

Command:

Trait:

Ability:

ATK/HP:

+++ ATTACHMENT TEMPLATE +++

Type: (Signature/Loyal/Open)

Name:

Shield:

Trait:

Ability:

+++ SUPPORT TEMPLATE +++

Type: (Signature/Loyal/Open)

Name:

Trait:

Ability:

+++ EVENT TEMPLATE +++

Type: (Signature/Loyal/Open)

Name:

Shield:

Trait:

Ability:

Now for the daring there is also a Token and Planet Template, which will see use for sure!

+++ PLANET TEMPLATE +++

Name:

Colours: (R/G/B or Red/Green/Blue)

CRD /RSC:

Battle Ability:

+++ TOKEN TEMPLATE +++

Type: (Token)

Name:

Command:

Trait:

Ability:

ATK/HP:

Without futher ado, here would be my Roboute Guilleman:

+++ WARLORD TEMPLATE +++

Name: Roboute Guiliman

Trait: Primarch. Ultra Marines.

Ability: Grand Visionair. (Before the game begins your opponent reveals his starting hand).

ATK/HP: 3/8 Bloodied: 2/7

CRD/RSC: 8/8

The design of Roboute Guilliman is a "boring" design but also typical to him, as it's a true skill-tester and gives you an grand avantage from the start only for the player to unravel it's options. The name Grand Visionair is typical to him because of the way Guilliman has created the Codex Astartes and saw information as his greatest strength to victory.

To make him more unique as others (which he was) it's also displayed that Ultramarines where infact one of the largest numbers in Legion size (if not the largest). To represent this he starts with 8 cards and 8 resources. Note that this is not a common sight among all Primarch's and most will have the regular 7/7 at their disposal.

His flavour is based upon balancing aswell, being the 'perfectly balanced' Primarch, which in turn make his design rather boring stat and ability wise (his personality is also viewed by non-Ultra Marine fans as rather boring) but are significant advantages troughout the game.

To lift up a small rule on the Primarch trait:

Primarch:

- A card with the Primarch trait starts the game exhausted.

- A card with the Primarch trait has: " When this card is exhausted, cards with the same Legion trait reduce their cost by 1".

- A card with the Primarch trait may exhaust during the Deployment Phase.

1. The above Primarch rules where added to represent the fact that Primarchs are constantly on crusades. The advantage of a "crusading" Primarch is however that he is able to deploy units easier due to the numbers Space Marines had during the Great Crusade and the Horus Heresy.

2. The above tapped rule was added to represent the fact that a Primarch is on it's crusade/holds back on the initial battles but at the same time also is a balancer to make up for their giant stat's (compared to normal Warlords). As such if a Primarch was to assault a planet from the start of the game it would have to thake on a beating before knowing the right strategy. Note: Certain Primarchs will not start the game exhausted to represent their "Fast Attack", think of Jaghatai Khan or perhaps even Sanguinius to represent their ability to act incredibly fast on the Battlefield.

3. The cost reducer was added to make sure the initial turn is about units much more as about deploying your Warlord. Note: It will allow for players to play their Legion units much faster, in a way this idea came from the Muster the Guard card and represents the fact that the Legions had much more units to work with for battle.

At the same time it also allows players to set up a nice ammount of units in order to even be able to battle an opposing Primarch.

4. To represent Primarchs their ability to call for more back up I've decided to add in the optional rule to exhaust the Warlord in order to be able to play more heavy into one faction. - This rule might dissapear after play-testing however as it does limit deck design. The advantage shouldn't be to great I feel.

On the other hand the tapping of a Warlord is a giant disadvantage by itself so will only gain an advantage to those who heavily commit in their Legion which as a result will cause a very one dimensional playstyle (which can be further punished by good opponents).

Hope you guys like it.

Cheers,

That's ok Roboute IS boring!

Yeah I got nothing to add to this. Excelent job!

When you said "starts exausted" the first tought in my head is "well maybe angron should ready before he commits" and the i read on and you already had that covered.

Thanks for the templates, I'll be putting them to good use later.

That's ok Roboute IS boring!

Yeah I got nothing to add to this. Excelent job!

When you said "starts exausted" the first tought in my head is "well maybe angron should ready before he commits" and the i read on and you already had that covered.

Thanks for the compliments ! Yeah the few that will be ready on the first turn will be the ones who represent speed or acts of haste... As for the Roboute, boring he is for sure, but unfortunatly that is somewhat of his trait. He does make up for it by sheer number (of cards and resources) and intelligence (Peek). Cant really say he is more than that asside Wargear. Nor is his Legion much more.

Yeah honestly, I dont even feel that Angron fits that particular bill. He and his Legion are known for their massacres and violent ways, but nothing really mentions them being the quickest on arrival. Also note that Angron did like to use any more advanced armours or means of transport in order to get his arse where he wants to be... Most and foremost he was a "butcher" type of guy (in my mind), deadly but you could see him comming (Leatherface-like?).

More to come!

Meanwhile my sketch for Angron , looking forward to hearing about it. Again work calls also and I still have to type out a whole lot of stuff I currently scribbled on paper (this includes the Planets and 12 card ideas).

+++ WARLORD TEMPLATE +++

Name: Angron

Trait: Primarch. World Eaters.

Ability: Gladiator. ( Forced Interrupt: This unit can only attack a Warlord if able)

ATK/HP: 4/7 Bloodied: 3/7

CRD/RSC: 7/7

Well, there we have it, quite the "boring" design again, but this time it's the ATK who really says something about Angron.

Some choices that went into my mind while creating this:

- Angron is known for it's rage outburst and violent ways, however fluff shows us that he is able to retreat and not a mindless slaughterer (mad, yes!) as such I initially wanted to give him Gladiator that would force him to attack the Warlord OR the most costly unit around. I felt the latter was a bit to dumb as it would often mean that Angron would have a "hate" for Landraider, this isnt the case so much...

- His ATK represents his violent ways, however his HP is also represented by this. Looking at the Angron rules (that are in the Forge World Horus Heresy books) we see that he is capable of mowing down whole units at once (given the time) but isn't as well protected as his brothers in all different types of Terminator Armour. As such we see that Angron starts with 7 HP instead of the normal 8. To compensate however he does have a massive 4 ATK (which with Gorefather and Gorechild becomes 4 ATK + Armorbane) bloodied however Angron still shows an awesome ATK and does not really grow any weaker in terms of HP (he is used to fight with very light armour after all, in the forefront of battle).

- His legion (that remains to have a high strength due to the Emperor only using them when really needed to show incredible brute force) still remains at mid to high size. Currently I have not represented this on Angron but I I'll include some draw cards for the World Eaters to represent this (at the same time Ultra Marines will most likely have tokens but are otherwise really vanilla in design).

As mentioned, this is Angron in his most Vanilla state. I wish I could have added Berserk but I do feel it's better to represent this on World Eater Assault Units rather than printing Anrgon directly.

I'm also thinking of his Butcher's Nails to have Berserk on him (which imho would make it far less directly broken) and offcourse Gorefather and Gorechild will grand him Armorbane (and probably +1 ATK when the opposing Warlord is bloodied).

Most importantly, how do you guys feel about him remaining 7 HP while bloodied? Do you feel it's wrong or to overpowerd? Should he just become a 2/7 like all other Primarch's? Please let me know.

- The reason I did it is because unlike Conquest 40.000 where 3 ATK is king we will see more 4 ATK units in Conquest 30.000, which in turn make it far easier to bloody Angron.

I do hope you guys like the initial design. Again perhaps Angron would be someone who was ready on the battlefield but unlike other Primarch did not make use of any way to transport himself faster. This, however is seen much more in the Blood Angel legion, the White Scars legion and to some degree in the Raven Guard legion.

Killax, on 13 Jan 2015 - 07:59 AM, said:

While I like the difference in design I feel it's creating a sub-game within a fan-game.

Personally I don't like that approach since it limits the player in terms of deckspace by quite some cards.

Not being able to play Army cards on the first turn also means if your opponent plays the same deck there essentially is no use for the first turn. Having no use for turns usually leads to akward games...

It is not creating a sub-game, it is a new design idea. I wanted to represent a group of Warlords in a single card.

If both players play the same deck, you still have 2 ressources to play events and/or attachments and/or supports. It's far from useless. It will be more of a mind game when it's time to commit each of them and which planet will benefit from the Warlord bonus for the Command Struggle and Combat Initiative would be something to see. This is where you have to look at your game plan for the long run.

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Killax, on 13 Jan 2015 - 07:59 AM, said:

Feel free to continue the idea however as it is indeed something new. The downside of it imho is that you play the game with a very minimized ammount of options, starting with 12 cards is really cool but something like this would only work within a casual setting as much as the WoWtcg Raid decks don't work in a competative style .

The idea is on table, you don't have to like it. I don't know if I can push the idea farther, but it's a start to represent a group of people in a single Warlord. It's like any other card, some people will like it, some don't.

Having restrictions is good for creativity. It forces you to think outside the box and most of the time, it is at that time great decks are created, but saying it wouldn't work in a competitive environment, I wouldn't jump to conclusion so fast. I give 12 cards start to be able to draw some Shield/Event/Attachment cards to buff/protect your units. This way I can minimize relying on luck to have a great 6-7 cards starting hand to do the same thing, but at the cost of controling what you can play on your first turn. Starting with 4 units before the game starts is really powerful even if you lose the game when they're all dead. I didn't create that with the casual player in mind, this idea targets the deckbuilders and strategists specifically. Would it work as a raid type thing like WoW TCG? Probably though.

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Killax, on 13 Jan 2015 - 07:59 AM, said:

Q: All these Warlords in a single deck, why can't these "Warlords" just have a normal cost and be Unique, like the sub-commanders allready are in Conquest LCG? I feel the sub-commander design would reflect the young Abbadon very well

This is for another discussion entirely. It's not because I did it this way that it means it can't be done otherwise. You made some cool templates, let your imagination bring that idea to life!

----------------------------------------------------------------

Killax, on 13 Jan 2015 - 07:59 AM, said :

Q: These Warlords did not only work under Loyal Space Marines and Neutral allies. Why can I not include these in my normal Horus deck or my Emperor deck?

Because from what i've read so far and I understood, the Space Marines are the Astartes Legions and the Astra Militarum is the normal human. Also because those 4 are the Warlord versions part of the signature cards. Nothing prevents them to be made as a regular unique army unit in another version.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Killax, on 13 Jan 2015 - 07:59 AM, said :

Q: Where are the other 11 known members of the Mournival?

I didn't know there were another 11 members. I know those 4 and the 7 others who are dead, including Sejanus, because they said their name when the introduced Loken during the ritual. I created this idea with the current 4 I knew about.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Killax, on 13 Jan 2015 - 07:59 AM, said :

More Q's would come but again I feel the above design is creating a sub-game in a fan-game and I feel it would be a better idea to stay close to Conquest's own fundation but to alter upon it rather than creating a new game...

It's not because a design idea is out of the box, that means I created a new game. All the cards are created with the rulebook always in mind. The golden rule of all card games is always: follow the cards if it contradicts the rulebook. It is not a ''standard'' Warlord, but it was created to be played with core rules of what is Conquest.

1. It is not creating a sub-game, it is a new design idea. I wanted to represent a group of Warlords in a single card.

If both players play the same deck, you still have 2 ressources to play events and/or attachments and/or supports. It's far from useless. It will be more of a mind game when it's time to commit each of them and which planet will benefit from the Warlord bonus for the Command Struggle and Combat Initiative would be something to see. This is where you have to look at your game plan for the long run.

-----------------------------------------------------------

2. The idea is on table, you don't have to like it. I don't know if I can push the idea farther, but it's a start to represent a group of people in a single Warlord. It's like any other card, some people will like it, some don't.

Having restrictions is good for creativity. It forces you to think outside the box and most of the time, it is at that time great decks are created, but saying it wouldn't work in a competitive environment, I wouldn't jump to conclusion so fast. I give 12 cards start to be able to draw some Shield/Event/Attachment cards to buff/protect your units. This way I can minimize relying on luck to have a great 6-7 cards starting hand to do the same thing, but at the cost of controling what you can play on your first turn. Starting with 4 units before the game starts is really powerful even if you lose the game when they're all dead. I didn't create that with the casual player in mind, this idea targets the deckbuilders and strategists specifically. Would it work as a raid type thing like WoW TCG? Probably though.

---------------------------------------------------------------

3. This is for another discussion entirely. It's not because I did it this way that it means it can't be done otherwise. You made some cool templates, let your imagination bring that idea to life!

----------------------------------------------------------------

4. Because from what i've read so far and I understood, the Space Marines are the Astartes Legions and the Astra Militarum is the normal human. Also because those 4 are the Warlord versions part of the signature cards. Nothing prevents them to be made as a regular unique army unit in another version.

--------------------------------------------------------------

5. I didn't know there were another 11 members. I know those 4 and the 7 others who are dead, including Sejanus, because they said their name when the introduced Loken during the ritual. I created this idea with the current 4 I knew about.

---------------------------------------------------------------

6. It's not because a design idea is out of the box, that means I created a new game. All the cards are created with the rulebook always in mind. The golden rule of all card games is always: follow the cards if it contradicts the rulebook. It is not a ''standard'' Warlord, but it was created to be played with core rules of what is Conquest.

1. True, but because of that representation you did in fact create a game which is very different from Conquest LCG, namely a game that centers around 4 induviduals who are not Warlords but Captains during the Horus Heresy. Note: Conquest also has these Captains (not Warlords) in the form of their Cost 3 Unique's. Vetran Brother Maxos, Captain Markis etc. are all Uniques and because of that also immume to most direct destruction and route cards (see Doom, Exterminatus, Archon's Terror etc.).

I feel the reason why they are designed that way (Doom etc.) is because they didn't want to have the Captains dead so easily or routed so easily. It represents an unique presence, one that is immume to easy destruction and immume to fear.

Because of the current design route FFG has allready taken I feel Abaddon (and all the other members) would be perfect to have as Commanders (unique army units) for Conquest: Horus Heresy. However because their design would be so comparable the card would need to have a cost, in order to be also played by other Warlords.

Ask yourself this question, do you think an army would go to war without consent of it's President aka Warlord aka Primarch? Because unwillingy you just made up something much like it. It would now mean that Abaddon, Aximad, Torgaddon and Loken also had the rights to decide, all by themselves, to go to war. Something that is fluff-wise very incorrect.

Note: The Mournival was an advisory council, carried no official weight and was purely internal to the Legion.

As such I believe the 'Mournival' itself would be much better represented by an Event or a Support card that actually works for the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus. One that shapes your hand would be very fittting for an advisory council .

2. Again it isn't something I dislike (see my previous comment about that) it's more something that doesn't make direct sence to me. Again the first and foremost role of the Mournival was to advice the Legion, check the Legion and thus make up for a better Legion. Not to be 4 characters to be sent to different planets without armies (again something it currently is).

First of all, I don't think working with restrictions creates better creativity, in fact I think the opposite is true. A structure like this does force you to think outside the box but even that is open to each because it's a whole different box to begin with. When not designed for competative play I think the above would be cool (but would still not make sence fluff wise).

3. Well I don't think it is, the characters by themselves are well represented but as mentioned these 4 characters are not the only characters that make up the Mournival, in special not during the Horus Heresy. As such I don't think it's wise to create characters that are otherwise unplayable by other decks. Again Im not against the idea but the ranks of the members and reason for the Mournival do not add up towards conquering Planets or battles during the Horus Heresy.

4. I think you misunderstood my actual question here. Comming back to the Mournival again, it is a council which it's member where not set in stone. During the Horus Heresy two of the included charters you made became part of the Traitor Legions, two others remaind Loyal.

To create different cards with the same name for the same character is not something I really like to do, for sure it's optional but the Horus Heresy includes so many characters it would be unfair imho all Captains are worthy to include for a fan-game...

5. Well, I didnt want to be a spoiler, but there where many included and excluded along the way... Which also my biggest problem with the creation itself. Again I feel that the Mournival could be a great Event/Support that allows you to look at (for example) top X cards and draw 2. It would represent an advice given by many only for Horus to pick the best choice at hand. It's something that is quite easy to translate in such a card without messing with fluff or letting it be directed by it's members.

6. I dont doubt you did create it with the Rulesbook in mind but the card-design it self is allready represented in Conquest 40.000 in a very easy and clear way (again the Unique Captains each faction has). When we look at the Captains in Warhammer 40.000 we see that they have similar roles as the Captains during the Horus Heresy. As such I think it would be very fitting to just create Abaddon (and the others) as Unique captain cards.

For example, it would allow you to have Kârn with Gorechild (and Gorefather) when Kârn is created as a Captain card (thus Unique) and Gorechild (and Gorefather) as a Relic-like Attachment that would care about his Unique status and Legion (much like the other signature Attachments can be attached to Captains).

It's not so much that you created a non-standard Warlord but moreso re-created a Captain card, thus created something they are not. Abaddon currently is a Warlord for the Black Legion (40K) but was clearly a Captain (1st Captain) during the Horus Heresy. I don't see any reason to name a advisory council a Warlord or Captains becomming sub-Warlords for the game. Not because I don't like it but because it doesn't match with background.

Now I understand your point. I'm real fan of lore, so if something doesn't make, I would be the first one to point it out. You have my thanks for that. My only concern here is how different are the 4 Captains compared to Cato Sicarius? He looks like a Captain all the same as the other 4.

He doesn't have any trait that would point me otherwise like Primarch. His traits are Soldier, Ultramarine. I'm a noob for 40k's lore so far, so there might be something I missed.

Happy to hear that. Again I do like the idea and do think that in terms of down-scaling the game would work as a sort of Campain deck (much like WoWtcg Raid decks but in a different set up, with fixed enemies but would allow for a cool multi-player setting because each player could pick it's own Captain).

- About the background in the fluff... Well the 4 Captains in terms of rank are equal in rank name, compared to Sicarius, the only huge difference is that after the Horus Heresy each Loyal Legion got split up into chapters (what was left of the Legion) and then got split up again in Compagnies (where Cato has command of the 2nd Compagny). As such the force which both have at their disposal are very different. This is what happens when you try to go backwards 10.000 years and forward 10.000 years again.

The splitting up of the Legions is something that happend after the Horus Heresy. Which in short means that after the Horus Heresy each Captain does have an option to decide where to attack and does not always have to get direct command of the chapter master (who sort of replaced the Primarchs). Plus this also is a really short version of the story and does not apply to all Legions (forward known as Chapters).

To put things into scale again, roughly each Legion had 100.000 marines (some much more (Ultramarines), some much less (Thousand Sons, again trying to keep it short ) which after the Horus Heresy each had grave losses. What was left was further split up into a Chapter organisation (designed by the Ultramarines Primarch so not each Legion uses the exact same template) which includes Compagnies and are leaded directly by a Captain. This Chapter organisation was only used by the Loyal Legions but most Traitor Legions also got split up by inner Traitor Legion wars.

As such the command and availabilty is very different.

Now do I feel 2/6 is a good representative of Cato in the game?, to be honest, no . But I do feel that if FFG would only focus onto the Chapter Masters (who could be represented quite well by those stats) it would become difficult to make things up for other factions. Which in turn mean it's easier to create a Warlord template that is roughly 2/6.

For the Horus Heresy however it's much easier to focus onto the Primarch's because 3/8 stats would actually reflect them quite well and they play the mayor roles in the Horus Heresy saga, which in turn make this fan-game.

- Now there is no trait that would point Cato to a Primarch because all other Primarchs are either, gone, dead or a Daemon Prince (which in turn means they rely on the Warp to survive).

Cato also isn't a Primarch but a Captain of the 2nd Compagny of the Ultramarines Chapter.

To put things into perspective again, the reason why I added a discounter onto the Primarch design is to reflect the multitude of resources. Currently a Space Marine is often represented in Cost 2 or Cost 3. In the time of the Horus Heresy many more Space Marine would be around so a Cost 1 or Cost 2 for the same body would make sence in the way that there simply where more Space Marines around.

Hope that cleared up some bits...

To add to the above, but is a bit offtopic regarding your question:

The main reason why most of the Loyalist split up their forces is to be able to act quicker when there was demand for it (something a large Legion couldn't replicate in the same way, which also means some Legions where not on the battle of Terra where Horus and the Emperor had their last stand of) but also to protect themselves from further Traitors to gain the same ammount of power the traitor Legions had.

For example if for whatever reason a Compagny (roughly 110 marines + a handfull of Dreadnoughts and Vechicles) would go Rogue or Traitor they wouldn't pose as much of a problem as a whole Legion (roughly 100.000 marines). Apart from that it's also easier for an Inquisitor to check the potential influences of Chaos upon a chapter than it would be for a whole Legion.

The grave lesson the Imperium learned about the Horus Heresy is that when the incredible force of a Legion strikes against it's brothers the outcome is a loss for either side regardless of the eventual winner both will pay the price.

Apart from that most of the Imperium is also unaware of the Horus Heresy ever happening since it was 10.000 years ago...