You'd honestly try to get someone thrown out for this?

Or this?

But what happens when you do throw out the guy who does something egregious and he says, "But you didn't throw those other guys out!" Now you're having to explain what's an acceptable conversion and what isn't, and that guy you threw out will go right to the rules and point out that no conversions are acceptable, and you've got a gigantic mess on your hands.

Like I said, easier to say no modification at all than to have to depend on a TO with a lot more to worry about having to judge what's acceptable or not.

EDIT: Bottom line, I wouldn't be upset if a TO didn't enforce the rule, but I wouldn't if he did either.

And honestly, I'd throw those guys out for not having pilot tokens on their ship bases.

My buddy uses Lascannons on his Decimator instead of those dinky turrets and has never had a problem at any tournament he went to in the SoCal area. I've also played with and against painted models and never had a problem with anyone against them.

I would very much like, nay, I need to see a picture of this marvellous beast.

Speaking as somebody who's both horizontalized my B-Wings and rotated my turrets I'd hope nobody has a problem with it, since it in no way affects the instantly recognisability of the ships, but they could do if it distracts them. Calling people names just because you don't understand their position and motivation isn't very nice.

If it's causing a genuine issue then fair enough, but there'll be people out there who'd complain to a TO not because it impairs the play of the game but just to try and get them DQed so they can win by default, which isn't a mentality I agree with. Given how completely harmless most of these things are I struggle to think of many reasons other than self-interest to actually object to a TO. (The one in post 26 I can see the logic behind though).

If the base and placard are the same, and they don't try to cheat when they fly them, I don't care if they laminate dog dirt and put it on the pegs...as long as it doesn't stink. I'm there to roll dice, not critique color palattes and cockpit locations.

I saw someone playing with what looked like an E-wing with three other sets of wings sticking off of it

Was it this?

I'd draw the line at no longer being instantly recognisable as the original ship.

That is one sexy ship though. It would be cool for FFG to release an XG-1 but they'd need to fix ordnance first.

Technically speaking, the horizontal B-Wings could be acceptable as long as the cockpit isn't rotated. FFG's rules clearly state that modifications to the pegs are acceptable to allow magnets and the like. The horizontal B-Wing would fall under that as long as the cockpit isn't changed.

I saw someone playing with what looked like an E-wing with three other sets of wings sticking off of it

Was it this?

I'd draw the line at no longer being instantly recognisable as the original ship.

That is one sexy ship though. It would be cool for FFG to release an XG-1 but they'd need to fix ordnance first.

Maybe they could do both at the same time.

I mean, that thing clearly carrying enough ordinance to not have to worry about running out.

My buddy uses Lascannons on his Decimator instead of those dinky turrets and has never had a problem at any tournament he went to in the SoCal area. I've also played with and against painted models and never had a problem with anyone against them.

I would very much like, nay, I need to see a picture of this marvellous beast.

This is why it's all at the discretion of the TO. They are able to make a judgment about things like that. They can look at a model and decide if the model itself is likely to cause an issue, or if the person is just trying to get someone DQ'ed on a technicality.

You'd honestly try to get someone thrown out for this?

Or this?

But what happens when you do throw out the guy who does something egregious and he says, "But you didn't throw those other guys out!" Now you're having to explain what's an acceptable conversion and what isn't, and that guy you threw out will go right to the rules and point out that no conversions are acceptable, and you've got a gigantic mess on your hands.

What mess? As a TO, you're the authority and that's your role: making judgement calls when no clear one exists. If the dude in question challenged me as a TO in that situation, I'd tell him to "go (use your imagination) yourself." If he wants back in then he can earn it.

The rules are pretty clear that physical modifications to a model are not allowed.

But does this ever get enforced?

I'm doing turret swaps on my YT-2400s, and have longer-range plans to convert a YT-1300 into a different YT class, and I'm curious if I'd be able to bring them to tournies. It feels like no one would have a problem with them, unless I ran into a real piece of work.

I could see someone get into trouble if they painted their Alpha Interceptors like 181st or Baron Fel like a RGI AND that player tricked the enemy player into thinking that was really what they were up agianst.

I could see someone get into trouble if they painted their Alpha Interceptors like 181st or Baron Fel like a RGI AND that player tricked the enemy player into thinking that was really what they were up agianst.

Doing that's completely legal anyway. You could field a rebel Z-95 squad with all Black Sun Z-95 models if you wanted, or repaint all your interceptors red.

You'd honestly try to get someone thrown out for this?

Or this?

But what happens when you do throw out the guy who does something egregious and he says, "But you didn't throw those other guys out!" Now you're having to explain what's an acceptable conversion and what isn't, and that guy you threw out will go right to the rules and point out that no conversions are acceptable, and you've got a gigantic mess on your hands.

What mess? As a TO, you're the authority and that's your role: making judgement calls when no clear one exists. If the dude in question challenged me as a TO in that situation, I'd tell him to "go (use your imagination) yourself." If he wants back in then he can earn it.

But a clear judgment does exist -- the FFG tournament rules that stipulate no modified ships beyond painting. Except that 'round here, trying to enforce that rule apparently turns you into "that ******* guy" and a supporter of win-at-all-cost whiners.

Suggesting TOs, which in many cases are affiliated or at least represent a store, to tell people to F Off is usually a non-starter for the store owner. Short of someone atracking another player most venue owners would likely expect more tact from a TO. Or the TO is likely going to be given the same instructions.

You'd honestly try to get someone thrown out for this?

Or this?

But what happens when you do throw out the guy who does something egregious and he says, "But you didn't throw those other guys out!" Now you're having to explain what's an acceptable conversion and what isn't, and that guy you threw out will go right to the rules and point out that no conversions are acceptable, and you've got a gigantic mess on your hands.

What mess? As a TO, you're the authority and that's your role: making judgement calls when no clear one exists. If the dude in question challenged me as a TO in that situation, I'd tell him to "go (use your imagination) yourself." If he wants back in then he can earn it.

But a clear judgment does exist -- the FFG tournament rules that stipulate no modified ships beyond painting. Except that 'round here, trying to enforce that rule apparently turns you into "that ******* guy" and a supporter of win-at-all-cost whiners.

So, yes, trying to unilaterally apply that rule is a failure to recognize that FFG allows for enough room for judgment calls to be made, and is going to get you labeled as "that guy".

But a clear judgment does exist -- the FFG tournament rules that stipulate no modified ships beyond painting. Except that 'round here, trying to enforce that rule apparently turns you into "that ******* guy" and a supporter of win-at-all-cost whiners.

Take whatever conclusions you wish. The argument was regarding an egregious tournament foul...I assumed to mean the player was unyielding, unreasonable, and disrupting the rest of the event. Such players should be dealt with accordingly.

We're running pretty far afield of my original point, which is that a TO who decides to adhere to the letter of FFG's rules doesn't deserve to get called names for doing so.

They also say, in that very section, that the TO is the final authority in determining the legality of a ship.

So, yes, trying to unilaterally apply that rule is a failure to recognize that FFG allows for enough room for judgment calls to be made, and is going to get you labeled as "that guy".

So on the one hand the TO has the final authority, but on the other, if he exercises it, he's "that guy." Okay.

That's not what he said.

We're running pretty far afield of my original point, which is that a TO who decides to adhere to the letter of FFG's rules doesn't deserve to get called names for doing so.

Where did the TO being "that guy" come from? I thought it was fairly clear from the discussion that in the hypothetical scenario it's a player kicking up a fuss over a moved E-wing gun or horizontal B-wing, and if they're doing it to try to get the other player disqualified so that they can advance then they are "that guy."

The TO has the final authority and sets the limits on what's legal and what isn't. They're never "that guy".

Personally, without implying any insults, if I was a player at an event and a TO booted the modifications shown above, I would no longer participate in that person's events. Implying that those type of mods lead to a slippery slope of "anything goes!" shows an unwillingness to reason and take responsibility for his or events.

But it's the TO's show so if I don't like it, I can leave. There's nothing wrong with it, just stating my preference.

The TO has the final authority and sets the limits on what's legal and what isn't. They're never "that guy".

Ideally no they're not. As was pointed out "that guy" is a reference to a player who's trying to get someone else DQ'ed on a technicality.

So someone is getting beat and they know it, so they call over the TO and point out that the other guys B-Wing has been rotated, so they should be disqualified... Not because there's a real issue with the modification, but because it's a pretext to win a match you know you're going to lose.

I would no longer participate in that person's events.

This is the course of wisdom, because a TO is like a DM/GM. What they say goes, and you or I have no real authority or power, other than the ability to get up and walk away. Because a TO/GM/DM who abuses their power or otherwise does things like that, will soon find themselves with no one to play with.

In my mind, the line is: is it instantly recognizable as still being the original? There are a lot of really creative people who have taken the original kit and made them into something awesome... but it is no longer (say) a YT-1300, or a Tie Interceptor. Into this category, I'd put things like Uglies (no matter how pretty), and total conversions.

I'm tempted to show examples, but I don't want to seem like I'm calling anyone out!

Now: if someone shows up with a beautifully done custom redesign of a ship, and the TO (rightly) says that it doesn't look like the ship it's supposed to represent, someone needs to lend that person the right ship!