so stumbled on this today. what are your thoughts?
It is kinda true that you can minmax ships to be amazing, but minmaxing ships doesn't help you that much in actual missions.
As I said in another thread, f**k playing 100 pnt tourney rules for all except testing combos. play custom or rulebook missions. String them into campaigns. Then it gets fun.
My thoughts are that it's wrong, but hey, we all have our opinions.
I like this comment "I do think you have a very valid point and it’s one that FFG should address if they want the game to have a long-term tournament future once the novelty wears off. X-Wing works very well as a casual game, but not enough thought has gone into fleet construction and the interactions between certain ships and upgrades, so consequently it rewards extreme builds."
I didn't realize that a two year old game was still considered to be a novelty.
The game that poster wants to play would be downright boring.
My only problem is That I have a friend that just got into the game and he wants to play Rebels and scum...while I have been playing since the game was released and have bought almost everything the game has came out with minus the epic ships and I play Empire and will soon get into S&V..I feel kinda bad because he is going to have to spend alot of money in order to catch up on cards and pilots to be where im at on build options....so untill he either dumps alot of money into the game as I have or just starts a new faction as I am with S&V we will either A. Have pirates vs bountyhunter fights or B. Im just going to have to handicap my lists to create a fair match up for a game with him. Or C. Play scenarios and various missions
Edited by Grave13My only problem is That I have a friend that just got into the game and he wants to play Rebels and scum...while I have been playing since the game was released and have bought almost everything the game has came out with minus the epic ships and I play Empire and will soon get into S&V..I feel kinda bad because he is going to have to spend alot of money in order to catch up on cards and pilots to be where im at on build options....so untill he either dumps alot of money into the game as I have or just starts a new faction as I am with S&V we will either A. Have pirates vs bountyhunter fights or B. Im just going to have to handicap my lists to create a fair match up for a game with him. Or C. Play scenarios and various missions
You can also let him borrow upgrade cards until he develops his collection.
Its ironic because everyone complained about swarmy all generic pilot builds with minimal upgrades before Wave 4. Now that named pilots loaded up with upgrades are good now, they complain about that.
Edited by Jo Jo
My thoughts are that the author of that post is comparing a weekend of casual play to... well, he or she doesn't actually make it clear what "I looked back into X-wing" means, but given the note about Fat Han it seems like it was a conversation in or at least around the late Wave 4 competitive game.
The follow-up posts are just as bad, with accusations of "pay to win" and descriptions of the game as catering to power gamers with "extreme builds"--coming mainly from posters who admit they have little or no knowledge of the game.
(Kovutalli, whose handle I recognize from here, is doing an excellent job of pushing back politely but firmly.)
You can also let him borrow upgrade cards until he develops his collection.My only problem is That I have a friend that just got into the game and he wants to play Rebels and scum...while I have been playing since the game was released and have bought almost everything the game has came out with minus the epic ships and I play Empire and will soon get into S&V..I feel kinda bad because he is going to have to spend alot of money in order to catch up on cards and pilots to be where im at on build options....so untill he either dumps alot of money into the game as I have or just starts a new faction as I am with S&V we will either A. Have pirates vs bountyhunter fights or B. Im just going to have to handicap my lists to create a fair match up for a game with him. Or C. Play scenarios and various missions
True but only works to a certain point if a situation arise where he wants to use a card that I would need for a build that I onlybhave one copy of....I know team covenant sell singles of some cards...he can do that as well
What is this "force organization" they keep talking about as a fix to X-Wing?
Edited by Grave13My thoughts are that the author of that post is comparing a weekend of casual play to... well, he or she doesn't actually make it clear what "I looked back into X-wing" means, but given the note about Fat Han it seems like it was a conversation in or at least around the late Wave 4 competitive game.
The follow-up posts are just as bad, with accusations of "pay to win" and descriptions of the game as catering to power gamers with "extreme builds"--coming mainly from posters who admit they have little or no knowledge of the game.
That or he just cant find a nich in the meta of each wave. I just dont belive he likes the game having a competitive aspect to it ....But hey if he doesnt like it he should just stick tomcasual play or scenarios
It is kinda true that you can minmax ships to be amazing, but minmaxing ships doesn't help you that much in actual missions.
As I said in another thread, f**k playing 100 pnt tourney rules for all except testing combos. play custom or rulebook missions. String them into campaigns. Then it gets fun.
I despise the limited (NO) vision of the 100 point MIN-MAX-META 40K Space-gyrine-game.
Dat ain't STAR WARS.
ha i too came from a starfleet battles background. that game was just flat out tedious to play. and basically certain ships in THAT game were more powerful than any Fat Han!! The minis also looked like crap. Yeah I think a few things about what he said are kind of true and with a few tweaks most of those things have been fixed or hopefully will. At least FFG seems open to "Fixing" things that are broke and NOT fixing things that are NOT broke.. BTW I do think munitions are broke..lol
I happen to be in the camp that the game is what you make it. IF you are just looking for a casual fun game, then play it like that. If you are looking for a fun, competitive and balanced game, it is that as well.
Having played other games like 40K I can tell you this game is FAR more balanced at the competitive level and it really comes down to 'who's the better pilot' in the end as opposed to who has the bigger wallet or more broken army.
This is hands down a much better game competitively and casually.
What is this "force organization" they keep talking about as a fix to X-Wing?
It's a 40K thing
In 40K you have a Force Organisation Chart which limits the choices you can make to make up your army and at the same time makes you include several choices
You have/had (I stopped playing 40K around 6th, I heard that the FoC did change somewhere) to have 1HQ and 2 Core choices and a max of 2HQ, 3 Elite, 3 Heavy, 3 Fast and 6 Core choices when you build a 40K army.
Edit: I played a lot of 40K, but the continued powercreep, costs and hard meta shifts added with the fact that I'm just a huge Star Wars nerd made me switch to X-Wing.
Edited by VikingMaekelYou do have to watch who you play. If you don't like min/maxed, hyper competitive gameplay, there are people to avoid. Also tournaments.
X-wing does NOT need force org. omg that would suck so badly.
40K's force org didn't do it any favours either...
What is this "force organization" they keep talking about as a fix to X-Wing?
Besides a very, very bad idea?
The idea is in other games. In basic terms it forces you to make a semi-fluffy list. You have X points to buy stuff like you do in X-Wing, but you are forced to buy some things first, and have to have X number of a given type of unit in your list.
For example here's a 40k force chart.
Min 1 Command Unit
Min 2 Troops (Tactical Marines or Scout Marines)
Opt 2 Fast Attack (assault marines)
Opt 3 Elite (Terminators, Dreadnaughts, Predator Tanks)
Opt 3 Support (Librarian, Whirlwind Tank, Devastator Tank)
So you have to have at least 1 command unit, at least 2 troops, then you can have up to 2 or 3 of the other types of units listed. It keeps you from making a list that consists of nothing but elite units, because that would be broken... Which says something about 40k I think.
What they're saying for X-Wing I guess would be that you could have 1 but no more than 1 named pilot and the rest would have to be generics.
As to that post, it's nothing but a huge steaming pile of drivel written by people who both know nothing and admit to knowing nothing about the game itself. So it's quite clear why they have the opinion they do.
In fact - if you want balanced, look at 40K and try to do exactly nothing that it does.
I feel kinda bad because he is going to have to spend alot of money in order to catch up on cards and pilots to be where im at on build options....
Yes and no.
There's little question that FFG set things up to encourage people to buy everything. But it's not strictly speaking required to do so. There's some reprinted cards now, so a Rebel player can get AdvSens without needing to buy a Shuttle. So in some ways new people have it easier than those of us who have been here since the start.
So he just has to figure out what he wants to do and buy accordingly. Plus proxies are always an option for casual play.
Also... It's not like you are spending $ on cards alone, you may not use that ship a lot, but it is still there and useable if you feel like it. It's not like you spent $15 on a Tie Defender, and throw out everything but the 1 card you want.
Also as an aside, Force Charts don't always suck, the way they have it set up in FoW works well, but it does also work a lot better in that game because you have 3 options of what type of list to make and a crapton of different force charts.
I can see why the points were made, but I as someone who has been with the game the whole time I disagree with the conclusions.
There is a difference between the way the game tends to be played and the way it has to be played. Yes, X-wing has a game meta, but that does not mean that you have to play it that way.
At the last game night I went to I saw a ton of Decimators and YT-2400, but guess what those are what are new. We like playing with what is new.
I have to point out that the TIE is still a very viable list, but most of us who flew it have moved on. Not because it doesn't work anymore, but because we wanted to play new things.
Finally I HAVE to point out anytime someone talks about the importance of any type of list building, that how you fly your ships is X-wing is at least as important as what ships you bring. If anything over the past two year some players have just gotten really really good at flying. These are the players that dominate my community.
What they're saying for X-Wing I guess would be that you could have 1 but no more than 1 named pilot and the rest would have to be generics.
Funnily enough, Paul Heaver's 'Fat Han' list would fit that criterium. 1 named (Solo) and the rest generics (3 Tala's)
I don't think it'd be a good idea for X-Wing though to enforce a FoC.
They throw around the term 'Herohammer', but X-Wing is nowhere near Herohammer. That was WHFB in 4th Edition. There was no point in running regular troops against some of the broken heros back then. No amount of them could conceivably kill it. See how Han performs against a TIE swarm, it's nowhere near Herohammer.
Edited by VikingMaekelMy only problem is That I have a friend that just got into the game and he wants to play Rebels and scum...while I have been playing since the game was released and have bought almost everything the game has came out with minus the epic ships and I play Empire and will soon get into S&V..I feel kinda bad because he is going to have to spend alot of money in order to catch up on cards and pilots to be where im at on build options....so untill he either dumps alot of money into the game as I have or just starts a new faction as I am with S&V we will either A. Have pirates vs bountyhunter fights or B. Im just going to have to handicap my lists to create a fair match up for a game with him. Or C. Play scenarios and various missions
As for the article I don't think he knows what he is talking about.
If buddy had it his way the game would have became stale and boring very fast.
Adding more options, fixing older ships is a good thing for this game.
I'm just happy people like this do not design games
I never liked 40k's force org chart, the percentage base worked better for me in creating themed armies. See I like my all sternguard droppodapocalypse. That's the only thing I like about 7th edition. Psychic phase as it's own phase is good, but some of the powers (invisibility) are broken, especially as there are ways to guarantee getting it (loth). Then putting that in say a nearly unkillable group of nasty (grav centurions) making them template proof... you get the idea.
They throw around the term 'Herohammer', but X-Wing is nowhere near Herohammer.
The fact that they use the term proves how little they know about this game. It wasn't that long ago that the common post on this board was "how can we make named pilots worth taking?"
Sure the 2 named ship list is kinda hot now, Han/Dash and Corran/Jan although the two combos play completely different than each other... But that doesn't change the fact that the generic pilots still see a ton of use. Anyone who thinks this is anything like Herohammer must be an outsider who see's things posted and has no real experience of their own.