As the character stands now, he is one of the weakest characters in the game. While he may equal the Monk with an initial battle value of 5, the Monk never loses his power while the Dread Knight stands a good chance of losing his initial warhorse. Even the prospect of the free replacement is not so great as many other characters with higher starting craft have easy routes to earning the gold needed to buy one.

The Dread Knight also only has a starting Fate of 1 compared to the Monk's 5. The Monk is prevented from using weapons or armor in battle but not psychic combat, so it is not all that much of an impairment. The Monk also adds +1 when praying, a very nice power.

My question and request is what power can be added to the Dread Knight to make him equal in power to other characters? I plan to permanently alter his card in my game set with the best balanced suggestion posted here but I would love to see an update to the Dread Knight and a few of the other weaker characters officially released by FFG. I would even pay for an official release of just new character cards for any revised characters. (Adding in a few new ones or the characters introduced in the Digital Edition would be a bonus.)

My initial thought would be to add an ability for the Dread Knight to sacrifice followers to gain a life, a fate, or a spell.

So, what powers or changes would you suggest be made to the Dread Knight to make him more dreadful but not over-powered?

The Dread Knight is basically a Monk that can have his power temporarily stripped, but gains a spell every time he kills an Enemy, and can use weapons in battle. I think that's pretty even?

As the character stands now, he is one of the weakest characters in the game.

I'm saying this in every discussion about Talisman characters.

The Dread Knight also only has a starting Fate of 1 compared to the Monk's 5. The Monk is prevented from using weapons or armor in battle but not psychic combat, so it is not all that much of an impairment. The Monk also adds +1 when praying, a very nice power.

The fate value of 1 is either a feature of characters that are already proficient in battle (e.g. Troll, Warrior, Gladiator, Ogre Chieftain), who can compensate the lack of fate by the limited need of rerolls in battle, or a way to balance out characters with outstanding powers (Dark Cultist, Warlock, Sprite, Conjurer).

Exceptions to the rule are the Dread Knight and the Magus.

The Dread Knight might be considered a powerful character in battle, but at the start of the game he's very dependant on the Warhorse. Unfortunately, the Warhorse is easy to lose when you're weak, especially if you can't rely on rerolls. Obviously the Dread Knight can replenish fate easily by visiting the Graveyard, but that's not an easy task when you need it so desperately. The same could be said for the Warhorse recovery procedure.

So, what powers or changes would you suggest be made to the Dread Knight to make him more dreadful but not over-powered?

You didn't mention that the Dread Knight has the ability to gain a Spell every time he defeats an Enemy. That's a good ability for a combat-oriented character.

As a first attempt, I wouldn't try to add new fancy abilities. I think the character could be tweaked by giving him a decent fate value (e.g. 3) and then making a change to the other stats. I'm tempted to give him a Craft of 4, to boost both his Warhorse bonus and his resilience in psychic combat, but probably a Strength value of 3 is a more balanced choice. He will be really strong in battle, but still he has to fear Spirits and alike.

https://app.box.com/s/ygbgiwvdea3jkrv1rlsj

Not a Dread Knight, but a Death Knight!

The Dread Knight is basically a Monk that can have his power temporarily stripped, but gains a spell every time he kills an Enemy, and can use weapons in battle. I think that's pretty even?

No, it's not.

Probably you've never played the Dread Knight and found a Lesser Demon as the first encounter. Once I've managed to lose the Warhorse against a Lemure too, losing my 1 fate in the process. This is where the Dread Knight's agony starts and usually ends only with the death of the character, which is more probable than landing on the Graveyard to get a new Warhorse.

The Dread Knight is basically a Monk that can have his power temporarily stripped, but gains a spell every time he kills an Enemy, and can use weapons in battle. I think that's pretty even?

No, it's not.

Probably you've never played the Dread Knight and found a Lesser Demon as the first encounter. Once I've managed to lose the Warhorse against a Lemure too, losing my 1 fate in the process. This is where the Dread Knight's agony starts and usually ends only with the death of the character, which is more probable than landing on the Graveyard to get a new Warhorse.

I've only used the Dread Knight twice.

I have seen a Terrain Card end up on the Graveyard, and suddenly the Dread Knight is in trouble!

Perhaps he is weaker than I thought.

This is where the Dread Knight's agony starts and usually ends only with the death of the character, which is more probable than landing on the Graveyard to get a new Warhorse.

I'm afraid I must concur. The Dread Knight for us has been nothing but misery for anyone who has played him! Every time. Without fail. It's a running joke actually. He looks like he could take on an entire legion of the Emperor's best Stormtroopers and win but the sad reality is, no.

A few more fate would certainly go a long way and that's a good idea for a possible house rule.

Hehehe I love these topics. Dread Knight the worse characters "I mean" geeeeech..

https://app.box.com/s/ygbgiwvdea3jkrv1rlsj

Not a Dread Knight, but a Death Knight!

I like it now I need a minature .

Random stupid idea (to break the disussion of how terrible this character is)..

I suggest adding him ability that other characters cannot enter the space with him during their movement (except for the Inner Region), and if they fight him they receive -2 penalty to their attack score. After all the Dread Knight is dreadful, and everybody tries to avoid meeting him.

I have seen a Terrain Card end up on the Graveyard, and suddenly the Dread Knight is in trouble!

Yes, my wife placed a Terrain Card on the Graveyard in a game some months ago (I was playing the Dread Knight). New options to screw an already weak character.

Once he has lost the Warhorse at the start of the game, he becomes a character weak in both battle and psychic combat, with almost no fate, and almost unable to gain Spells because he's supposed to kill Enemies to do that! His only ability is to get back the Warhorse at the Graveyard, but landing on a specific space when you need it is easier said than done in Talisman. When it happens, you're just starting from scratch, with a new Warhorse and 1 fate, probably with less than 4 lives. You have exactly the same chances to lose the Warhorse as you had on turn 1.

So, unless you happen to find a very favourable streak of cards early on and gain some cool power-ups, winning the game with this character is impossible. It happened once in a Sacred Pool Ending game, but the player who won that game was exceedingly lucky with both cards and rolls.

One problem with the expansion characters in Talisman is that most character's, perhaps with the exceptation of Magus and Dread Knight, are stronger than the base game chars. If you just use base game characters and add those two characters they would fit nicely, but compared to other expansion chars they're just not good enough.

Anyway, since Woodlands release (and the new fate rules) all fate 1(-2) characters have lost most of their charm.you really need that fate there. Being fateless is in the woodlands is worse than having a Dread knight without a warhorse. On the other hand - imagine the Dread knight standing beside his dead warhorse in the heart of the woodlands, aware that the graveyard is (in) Ruins....

One problem with the expansion characters in Talisman is that most character's, perhaps with the exceptation of Magus and Dread Knight, are stronger than the base game chars.

I think the Prophetess, the Warrior, the Assassin, the Druid, the Wizard and maybe the straightforward Troll have powers that are not easily matched by most expansion characters. However, the rest of base game characters has situational abilities that are less attractive than the ones featured by expansion characters. Some chars are base game related, such as the Minstrel and Dwarf, others have stealing abilities that instigate retailiation (Thief and Sorceress), others have predictable strategies that are easily disrupted by bad luck or actions by others (Elf and Ghoul), and finally some of them have penalties to counterbalance their not so incredible abilities (Monk and Priest).

Anyway, since Woodlands release (and the new fate rules) all fate 1(-2) characters have lost most of their charm.you really need that fate there. Being fateless is in the woodlands is worse than having a Dread knight without a warhorse. On the other hand - imagine the Dread knight standing beside his dead warhorse in the heart of the woodlands, aware that the graveyard is (in) Ruins....

You're absolutely right about fate. A fate value of 1 is discouraging if you want/need to go inside the Woodland, because you have little or no flexibility. In my last game I started with Gladiator but never felt so well with only 1 fate. Other characters were using fate much often, including dark fate, and it seemed I had lesser control over the game than anybody else.

I attempted the Dungeon early on after picking up a lonesome Torch, but even though I tried to limit the number of cards drawn I kept on getting Craft Enemies. Even though I killed a Tinker Imp, he blew my Helmet away and this left me without protection in the middle of the Dungeon. The Gladiator was eventually defeated by a Death Knight and I gladly picked another character, who happened to be the Leywalker with whom I won the game. The turning point was completing a Warlock Quest and get the Vengeance Hex reward, which I used to transform the Amazon into a Toad and grab all of her City stuff, since she was standing on a space with one of my Portal Tokens.

Is there a drawback to simply saying he can't lose his warhorse? Seems that doesn't make him op but takes away his kryptonite

I am in agreement with everyone..the Dread Knight is the DEAD Knight, as in dead to the game.

Seriously though he is one of the few miniatures for the game that looks really cool and menacing from afar but lacks once he is on the board. We had a game recently where he lost his warhorse on turn 1, that same individual cast a spell and wiped the graveyard off the map and then chased him down through the dungeon where he perished. Quite funny.

We almost need another mini of the Dread "Knight" on foot for when he loses his horse. Or make it two separate minis that you can sit on the horse. LOL

if the dread knight is a dead knight then the Magus is not even born, hell we should not even know he's a character .

Another point of view on some of the arguments here..

►I find the hardest part of most Talisman games to be the beginning. If you are quick to win a few fights, gain a few cones and so on you get really good head-start. After that the game becomes relatively easier, you're just hoping to draw more good cards. The "Dead" Knights ability (starting out with a **** war horse..) helps a lot in this phase.

►No weapons is a major setback for the monk, especially with all the weapons in later expansions so the Dread Knight is arguably more powerful in battle (I don't know about you but I usually end up with a weapon pretty fast.. especially since the City expansion).

►Low fate is really bad on the Forest expansion region, sure but there's plenty of other places to be and a fae-forest should hardly be the favored place to be for a Dread Knight.

All in all though I do agree he's week. Like The_Warlock suggested I too find strength 3 to be the best fix.

..but then again, some character has to be the weakest. Flip the coin again and I would say that the Dread Knight should definitely not be one of the characters ranking as one of the weakest.
Even though.. I personally find him as a much more fun than more boring draws like the Elf even though the Elf is statistically stronger.