Just thought of this the other day while playing a defender in a recent store championship.

Since MajorJuggler's math and our experience often indicate that the defender is a little overcosted (or at least, non-point efficient) because the White K-Turn is overvalued, what if we introduced a Title (or mod) that says:

Title: TIE Defender Mk II

Cost: 0

The K-Turns on the dial is now green

Obviously I'm not sure how powerful this is, but it's not a generic "point reduction" improvement to make the ship worth its cost, but something that really strengthens what was supposed to be the greatest strength of this ship (the white K). This also makes the ship more unpredictable, as people will be more willing to do a red hard turn, and then either fly straight or K turn to remove the stress.

If we feel this is still not enough to make defenders worth it at their point value, then add a 3 or 5K (white) K-Turn along with the Green 4K. That will make the ship more unpredictable while retaining its unique style of flying.

Thoughts?

Could be interesting. I'd personally target the red maneuvers and make them white, making the defender able to turn but still keeping it off PTL by its far more limited greens.

I think just making the 2 sharp turn not red would do it. Part of their problem is knowing that only their 3 turn is white is bad.

I came in 3rd at my local store event with a Defender. It alone won me my last match.

I'd rather bump the 3 turns and/or banks to green than mess with the K-turn. The Defender's biggest weakness, besides its cost, has been its lack of options for greens. It's either go forward, or go more forward, or go most forward. Giving it some side-to-side green options would really loosen up its dial.

Alternatively, give it a modification: Integrated Cannons. TIE Defender only. 0 points. When you equip a cannon upgrade, reduce its cost by 3 points, to a minimum of 0.

This lets them roll with their stock Ion Cannons for free, or a HLC for 4 points. The whole host of new cannon upgrades in Scum would suddenly start to look a lot more interesting for the Defender, as well. Plus, it takes a Modification slot, usually a very valuable one, so it'd be balanced pretty nicely with opportunity cost.

Alternatively, make it a title and reduce the point savings for cannons, thus freeing up the mod slot but making it less potent.

Nope. White K-turn was revolutionary. Making it green? I think not.

I think just making the 2 sharp turn not red would do it. Part of their problem is knowing that only their 3 turn is white is bad.

I came in 3rd at my local store event with a Defender. It alone won me my last match.

Definitely not slamming the defender here. I finished 3rd (3-1) at our Store Championships recently and Vessery was definitely more than capable. But is the ship as the same level as a B-Wing (another heavy fighter with good survivability) in terms of efficiency (they obviously fly completely differently, but talking more about how competitive they are)? Probably not.

Cannon point reduction modification has definitely been brought up before, but again, trying to come up with something that's not just a point reduction on X fix that we've been seeing.

Nope. White K-turn was revolutionary. Making it green? I think not.

Revolutionary, yes. Worth 30 points for a PS1 ship? No.

They will be more fun when the new cannons come out, too.

The Defender sucks because the Phantom exists. Have you ever try to pin down a Phantom in a Defender? Its like trying to hit a sports car with a bus. A modification/upgrade that opens up the dial a bit would help. Really I just am hoping for something that grants boost at little to zero cost.

If you want to make them better. It's simple.

All Tie Defenders are flown by the most experienced Pilots Only, They should all have an Elite Pilot Slot.

Maybe replace the missile upgrade with Elite Pilot Slot, or add a title that gives it. Because, all of the pilots to fly the defender as the best the empire has to offer and had to survive 20 missions in a basic tie, then prove themselves in a flight simulator against terrible odds.

If you give them all a EPT for 0 points, that goes along way to fixing them.

Nope. White K-turn was revolutionary. Making it green? I think not.

Not really. B-wing semi-had it first.

I would like to see another aces pack with a bomber and defender. Both need some tinkering and wider variety of pilots.

If you want to make them better. It's simple.

All Tie Defenders are flown by the most experienced Pilots Only, They should all have an Elite Pilot Slot.

Maybe replace the missile upgrade with Elite Pilot Slot, or add a title that gives it. Because, all of the pilots to fly the defender as the best the empire has to offer and had to survive 20 missions in a basic tie, then prove themselves in a flight simulator against terrible odds.

If you give them all a EPT for 0 points, that goes along way to fixing them.

If this included a second EPT (along the lines of A-wing Test Pilot), this could be pretty epic.

The Defender sucks because the Phantom exists. Have you ever try to pin down a Phantom in a Defender? Its like trying to hit a sports car with a bus. A modification/upgrade that opens up the dial a bit would help. Really I just am hoping for something that grants boost at little to zero cost.

An Ion cannon on Vessery works wonders at stopping Phantoms. When you absolutely, positively need something Ioned, slap on Ion cannon on Vessery.

No to the green K-turn.

Some kind of Advanced Maneuvering Thrusters that altered those red hard turns into White turns would much easier to accept. I'm sure I'm not the only one who almost drools over how AWESOME it would be if you could put an R2 Astromech on the Defender.

If you want to make them better. It's simple.

All Tie Defenders are flown by the most experienced Pilots Only, They should all have an Elite Pilot Slot.

Maybe replace the missile upgrade with Elite Pilot Slot, or add a title that gives it. Because, all of the pilots to fly the defender as the best the empire has to offer and had to survive 20 missions in a basic tie, then prove themselves in a flight simulator against terrible odds.

If you give them all a EPT for 0 points, that goes along way to fixing them.

I never really understood why the Defender would have a PS 1 pilot when only the best would be flying it. And I would have to agree, they should all have at least an EPT!

Yes, yes.

Green K-Turn

Discount on cannon upgrades

+ EPT for generics (at least for onyx)

... all nice ideas for the small boost the defender (at least the generics) would need.

And we don't need the Missile slot, do we? ^^

3 x Delta + Predator/Outmaneuver anybody?

Yes, yes.

Green K-Turn

Discount on cannon upgrades

+ EPT for generics (at least for onyx)

... all nice ideas for the small boost the defender (at least the generics) would need.

And we don't need the Missile slot, do we? ^^

3 x Delta + Predator/Outmaneuver anybody?

Need a 3 point discount on EPTs for that to work, but if it does... SCARY!

I honestly can't imagine FFG coming out with something that effects the dial to that extent.

If they feel the need to update the Defender I'm sure it'll be more clever than changing the color of some of the maneuvers.

I honestly can't imagine FFG coming out with something that effects the dial to that extent.

If they feel the need to update the Defender I'm sure it'll be more clever than changing the color of some of the maneuvers.

Just have a title or modification that lets Defenders use Astromechs. That will be totally original and make Defenders pretty badass.

Yes, yes.

Green K-Turn

Discount on cannon upgrades

+ EPT for generics (at least for onyx)

... all nice ideas for the small boost the defender (at least the generics) would need.

And we don't need the Missile slot, do we? ^^

3 x Delta + Predator/Outmaneuver anybody?

Need a 3 point discount on EPTs for that to work, but if it does... SCARY!

You just need an EPT slot ...

Delta 30 + Predator 3 = 33 x 3 = 99

I don't meant to have it both

I still think giving them white segnor loops would be a fun addition.

I think a discounted ept (basically x1 title but ept instead of system) plus adding a slot to generics is a good fix regarding background.

I'd still like the ability to fire cannon and lasers in the same turn. It might make Vessery super OP though.

You just need an EPT slot ...

Delta 30 + Predator 3 = 33 x 3 = 99

I don't meant to have it both

Ahh ok. Yeah, that would be pretty strong. I wonder how it would fare against 5 BSP with Predator + 1 BSP, or 5 Greens with Predator...

Only having green 2+ straights makes them really susceptible to stress. The white KTurn IMO is to balance that given that its so hard to remove stress on the Defender you can Kturn whilst stressed, a trade off. Defenders are only good in straight lines as well, so whenever i look at taking one Engine is immediately considered, giving them a little less predictability, however that has just cost me my only action (though its up you you when to use it of course) which hurts if youve got Rex(Vessery isnt a problem). So to give the Defender a bit of unpredictable movement and another action that means im looking at PTL (so i can have the option to Focus). But, ive already said earlier in this post that getting stress off a Defender isnt easy and my opponent will know exactly what im doing (going straight, 2 to 4).

Having a 1 forward green could be good. It'll give me an opportunity to clear my stress and make me a little tougher to block (as i could slow play or sprint using a 4). But keep me relatively predictable (im still going straight). It would also slightly improve my manouvreability with the 1 forward then the 1 bank boost.

So, would a 1 forward green keep the power creep doomsayers and those that are crying for an improvement happy? It seems to me that neither side gains a remarkable advantage or disadvantage with this proposal.

Humbly submitted.