It is a common attitude amongst new players -in every game- to start calling things broken, unbalanced, or overpowered the moment they find the slightest difficulty on their learning curves.

Eeach paragraph of yours drips with condescension. I don't like your atitude.

That's too bad for you. There is some good advice there.

I suggest you go back and look at it objectively.

Agreed.

While people can certainly be condescending here, this post is at the rather mild end of it. It's better to not have long toes.

Fourthing what everyone else said. The only part that could remotely be considered condescending was the line about the "common attitude amongst new players in every game," but that's a small nit.

When use A-Wings that have low attack values other than Focus-token using Proton Rockets, backed by a Focus-using Kyle Katarn, then of course the Focus-negating Carnor Jax is going to feel strong. In the rock-paper-scissors of X-Wing, you're deliberately flying paper into his scissors.

Try Roark with an Ion Turret, for starters. Carnor won't want to get within range 2 of him, as an Ioned Interceptor is usually easy pickings the next turn. Roark's ability to boost an attacker to PS12 will also help you deal with Phantoms, though it won't help you with the arc-dodging. You could also try using pilots like Luke or Wedge, as Echo will lose the advantage of shooting first, and/or lose the advantage of knowing where to safely decloak.

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? What's funny?

Use things that cause instant damage like Vader or ruthlessness ,just to name two, stress works great fit phantoms, and anything with a turret will solve your issue too

To sort of reiterate what has been said before:

The Dutch/Garvin combo was one of the premier "starter lists" from Wave 1. Its action economy and team synergy are everything good about the Rebellion. Catnor Jax was- I think- specifically designed to destroy this sort of team work. I actually don't like that, but it is what it is.

The ships giving you trouble are incredibly vulnerable to turrets- to the point where the designers are basically having to "patch" the game with a new card (Autothrusters) to make Squints viable against turrets.

Knowing that, you will want to put some Ion turrets on Y-Wings (you say you don't have a Falcon) to even things out a bit. Another idea would be B-Wings- a hypermobile tank with a huge gun. Squints have a hard time with them.

Against Phatoms: always be thinking "this dude can be 1 shot. Where is my shot?" You'll need to break up your formations and create overlapping firing arcs to do it. That's not trivial, but it can be done. And mastering it will make you a better pilot overall.

Good luck, and may the Force Be With you!

X-Wing has a real 'Rock-Paper-Scissors' dynamic to it and you cant really complain that you cant beat Rock, when all you play is Scissors.

If youre playing the same squads against the same opponent over and over the results will continue to be the same as any player improvement will be simultaneous for both of you. Ive got anything upto 5 Squads i play at any given time, not always different ships but even just changing up the Pilots from time to time etc.

Phantoms can be taken down without playing the High PS game. For one, just throw enough shots at it and it will flub it's evade dice. It's only got 2 HP and 2 Shield. I've seen someone use opening shots at a cloaked Phantom at Range 3 and kill it with 3 shots. Bad rolling. So, bring enough to fire at it and it will go down.

Do you have Nera the B-wing pilot? Use her with Deadeye, Flachette Torpedo, and Munitions Failsafe. She moves to be within range 2-3 of the Phantom and fires the Torpedo. In fact, it's better if she misses as she gets the torpedo back. How does stressing out the Phantom work when it can just do a green manuever? Have you seen it's green manuevers? It's pretty limited in them. If you are able to stress it out, you know about where it will be. If you are able to stress it out each turn, it will have a hard time turning around. A bank isn't the best thing for actually getting back into the fight. If you are able to follow it around, you will be able to deal witht it. You can either fire at it enough times to kill it or just force it off the board.

Dutch the Y-wing Pilot is great vs. Carnor. He gets a TL and then hands one out. Plus, he can get an Ion Turret. Freeze Carnor with it and you know where he will be next turn. Just make sure to get as many range 1 shots at him as you can. Or stress out and Ionize him in the same turn and he won't get an action.

A HWK 290 can also do neat things to your list. Roark will let one ship go first. Jan Ors will give another ship an extra attack die. That's great for hitting either ship. It also has a turret slot for ion ability.

Stressing a Phantom AFTER they recloak isn't exactly a strategy for defeating a Phantom. The Decloak offsets any issues they might have in moving while clearing their stress.

Do you have Nera the B-wing pilot? Use her with Deadeye, Flachette Torpedo, and Munitions Failsafe. She moves to be within range 2-3 of the Phantom and fires the Torpedo.

Just keep in mind that Carnor being within range 1 prevents Deadeye from being used.

Not really. They can only decloak forward or to the side. How are they going to turn? If they pass the combat, how will they get back into it. Nera can follow around a Phantom and just keep stressing it.

...that is true, so target Carnor first. Or hit him with an Ion and go for the Phantom.

My friend uses these often and I was shrugging it off at first because I'm still new to the game myself and nothing's invincible but it's really really starting to wear me down.

Carnor Jax screws over all my favorite squadron things. Kyle Katarn, Blaster Cannon, Proton Rocket, Jake Farrell, Garven Dreis and any attempts to keep my guys alive in general. Attempts to kill him are hampered by the lack of focus to get good hits or fire rockets and, again, lack of proton rockets. My guys are all dead in the water and Jax doesn't even have to do anything save exist.

Tie Phantom is even worse. Using Echo it can pretty much go wherever you want it. I had thought at first glance that although 4 hit dice is ridiculous, it was balanced because of it's weak defenses but Advanced Cloaking device ensures that it remains at 4 evade permanently as long as it can shoot first. And it can 1 shot anyone who gets in front of it. The ONLY reason I can hold my own VS it often is because my friend has trouble positioning it well during a decloaks. And he's getting better at it quickly.

I hear Flechette Torpedoes are supposed to screw up phantoms but how? He just needs to make a green maneuver while cloaked thus maybe missing killing something that turn and then things are back to where they left off.

Carnor Jax is not overpowered by any stretch of word. trust me, i a couple of 3 or 4 dice shots will bring him down very easily, as he has little to no defensive tech, and he isn't offensive enough to bring his targets down quickly, so he shows up, uses his focus - screw up - ability the first round, and then you blow him to hell in a hand basket with at least one or two shots. Keep in mind, he has 3 defensive dice, and the minimum dice your probably rolling with an attack on his is 3 or 4, and if he is using his ability, he is at range one, which is a wonderful way to make sure he is dead. Just put a few shots on him in one turn and go about your business, this isn't the OP'd tech you're looking for.

Whisper, or Echo, or really, any phantom, is the boogey man of the imperial fleet. They hit like a tonne of bricks, and are very maneuverable, however they do not stand up to fire well. At all. The trick, as someone else put it, is to create overlapping fields of fire and tie him up and box him in. The cloaking device only gives him 4 evade dice. I loose ships to 4 evade dice all the time. sure, there is evade and arc-dodging, but realistically, just keeping pressure on him is enough to make sure that he wont be too big of a problem, or if he does, he dies. its that simple.

As a point in turn, a watched a game where whisper spent the entire game trying to find a position on Corran Horn. What was happening is that the rebel player was playing the imperial player to the hilt, so whenever whisper would get read to de cloak, Corran was protected by a Z95 or he had to put shots on Biggs, so eventually, after taking two dice a turn (and sometimes 4 if there were both z95's or even 5 if Biggs was behind), Whisper died slowly, but did die on turn 4 or 5, and when that happened, Soontir Fel quickly fell to Corran horn, and the lambda was never much of a threat.

Sure, it sounds like a perfect scenario, but it does illustrate the point that with whisper, you have to use logic and deduce where he will be, block the decloak, and keep pressure on him. Another friend of mine was playing 8 tie swarm and just ignored him until his entire army pulled a k turn and killed him in one turn after killing the decimator. its only one ship, and its a very maneuverable, fast, agile, and fragile ship.

To sort of reiterate what has been said before:

The Dutch/Garvin combo was one of the premier "starter lists" from Wave 1. Its action economy and team synergy are everything good about the Rebellion. Catnor Jax was- I think- specifically designed to destroy this sort of team work. I actually don't like that, but it is what it is.

I'll disagree with you on this one point, as I don't believe Carnor was implemented to hurt Garvin or Rebel synergy lists. Garvin has never been enough of a top-level threat to merit a ship specifically designed to counter him. Carnor basically counters all stock defensive actions. Focus is arguably the best default action for any ship. It adds nearly as much offensive value as a Target Lock (TL's edge is that it can be carried through multiple rounds, as well as the potential for crits), and is also nearly as good as an Evade token for high-agility pilots.

If anything, Carnor was probably yet another attempt to hurt the TIE Swarm. Unless that Academy Pilot is trying to block someone, it's safe to assume they're going to focus to maximize the damage they deal every turn and minimize the damage taken, while also flying in a tight formation. Carnor neuters 2/3rds of the actions available to TIE Fighters as long as he can get within range 1 of them, reducing their damage output by a third while also increasing their damage taken.

Frankly, it's pretty difficult *not* to provide advice that will seem condescending, because you called out one of the worst ships in the game as being overpowered, so you are going to hear variants of "do better" or "build a better list" because those are your real problems. Carnor Jax practically counters himself by forcing his owner to drive their 30ish point PS8 3hull 0shield model into range 1 of your opponents in order to use his pilot ability. Given how hilarious this thread is to most of us, I think Jehan did a really good job of providing some generically constructive advice.

Carnor is certainly not overpowered and he's taken a hit a Wave 4+5 (At Wave 3 regionals he was one of the top 8 or 9 most used and effective pilots), but he's nowhere near one of the worst ships in the game when flown well and incredibly frustrating to opponents.

Just teach him a lesson once or twice:

Use this and he will stop counterpicking you and instead try to come up with all around good lists. This will Beat Jax/Whisper/+1 so hard that he will not come back for more with it! Just don't overdo it if you want to keep playing against him XD

I ran a similar list and just destroyed buzzsaw whisper

Dash

Ptl

Kyle

Hlc

Outrider

Engine upgrade

Jan

Chewbacca crew

Engine upgrade

Ion turret

Moldy crow.

Each game Jan locked down whisper while whisper tried to get into dash donut hole.

And another tip.

Maybe you don't do this, but don't tell your friend what your flying.

Wait until he had decided and then you tell ea other.

That's what we do

So the other player won't fly a hard counter to what your flying

Frankly, it's pretty difficult *not* to provide advice that will seem condescending, because you called out one of the worst ships in the game as being overpowered, so you are going to hear variants of "do better" or "build a better list" because those are your real problems. Carnor Jax practically counters himself by forcing his owner to drive their 30ish point PS8 3hull 0shield model into range 1 of your opponents in order to use his pilot ability. Given how hilarious this thread is to most of us, I think Jehan did a really good job of providing some generically constructive advice.

Carnor is certainly not overpowered and he's taken a hit a Wave 4+5 (At Wave 3 regionals he was one of the top 8 or 9 most used and effective pilots), but he's nowhere near one of the worst ships in the game when flown well and incredibly frustrating to opponents.

He's currently a decent pilot in a ship that doesn't see play any more. He was pretty good back when we used the abacus, but that's not really relevant right now. If autothrusters are the salvation everyone desperately wants them to be, he'll probably come back. All of these things are beyond the scope of the real thrust of my point, which was the fact that Carnor Jax is the farthest thing from OP enough to come to the boards about. Saying "You're complaining about a ship that used to be good but really isn't any more so it's basically not good vs. good lists" doesn't have quite the same ring to it you know?

I ran a similar list and just destroyed buzzsaw whisper

Dash

Ptl

Kyle

Hlc

Outrider

Engine upgrade

Jan

Chewbacca crew

Engine upgrade

Ion turret

Moldy crow.

Each game Jan locked down whisper while whisper tried to get into dash donut hole.

And another tip.

Maybe you don't do this, but don't tell your friend what your flying.

Wait until he had decided and then you tell ea other.

That's what we do

So the other player won't fly a hard counter to what your flying

The OP doesn't own the Falcon or Slave-1 Expansions. That means no Engine Ugrades, Veteran Instincts or Chewbacca Crew.

That said, Jan is tremendous against Phantoms. One of the best ways to deal with four defense dice: Throw four attack dice.

May I suggest a y-wing with an ion cannon turret?

Roark is even tremendouser: Hit them when they only have two green dice!

As anti-phantom goes, I'm curious what a heavy scyck with autoblaster and a y-wing with autoblaster turret fare. Doesn't matter how many green dice you throw, if evades are ignored.

As anti-phantom goes, I'm curious what a heavy scyck with autoblaster and a y-wing with autoblaster turret fare. Doesn't matter how many green dice you throw, if evades are ignored.

They'll be horrible because Autoblasters are horrible. Any Phantom that allows something with an Autoblaster to kill it should be dropped on the floor and stomped into little tiny bits of plastic.

Just teach him a lesson once or twice:

Use this and he will stop counterpicking you and instead try to come up with all around good lists. This will Beat Jax/Whisper/+1 so hard that he will not come back for more with it! Just don't overdo it if you want to keep playing against him XD

NO PHANTOMS ALLOWED

100 points

PILOTS

Han Solo (60)

YT-1300 (46), Veteran Instincts (1), C-3PO (3), Gunner (5), Millenium Falcon (1), Engine Upgrade (4)

Jan Ors (40)

HWK-290 (25), Veteran Instincts (1), Blaster Turret (4), Kyle Katarn (3), Moldy Crow (3), Engine Upgrade (4)

i so f... hate when he plays that list. auto-concede for me :-)

If you don't like Canor Jax because he keeps you from using tokens, just wait until tokens are stolen from you.

Thanks for the free action you will never be able to use. Oh by the way I need more focus tokens not evades. Please use the focus action instead of the evade. It makes it easier for me to shoot your starfighters down, okay?

As anti-phantom goes, I'm curious what a heavy scyck with autoblaster and a y-wing with autoblaster turret fare. Doesn't matter how many green dice you throw, if evades are ignored.

They'll be horrible because Autoblasters are horrible. Any Phantom that allows something with an Autoblaster to kill it should be dropped on the floor and stomped into little tiny bits of plastic.

Kavil with VI, Unhinged Astromech, Engine Upgrade, and Autoblaster Turret in a list that has a couple of points invested in an initiative bid can be an exception to the Phantom Stomping rule.

Just teach him a lesson once or twice:

Use this and he will stop counterpicking you and instead try to come up with all around good lists. This will Beat Jax/Whisper/+1 so hard that he will not come back for more with it! Just don't overdo it if you want to keep playing against him XD

NO PHANTOMS ALLOWED

100 points

PILOTS

Han Solo (60)

YT-1300 (46), Veteran Instincts (1), C-3PO (3), Gunner (5), Millenium Falcon (1), Engine Upgrade (4)

Jan Ors (40)

HWK-290 (25), Veteran Instincts (1), Blaster Turret (4), Kyle Katarn (3), Moldy Crow (3), Engine Upgrade (4)

i so f... hate when he plays that list. auto-concede for me :-)

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