My friend uses these often and I was shrugging it off at first because I'm still new to the game myself and nothing's invincible but it's really really starting to wear me down.

Carnor Jax screws over all my favorite squadron things. Kyle Katarn, Blaster Cannon, Proton Rocket, Jake Farrell, Garven Dreis and any attempts to keep my guys alive in general. Attempts to kill him are hampered by the lack of focus to get good hits or fire rockets and, again, lack of proton rockets. My guys are all dead in the water and Jax doesn't even have to do anything save exist.

Tie Phantom is even worse. Using Echo it can pretty much go wherever you want it. I had thought at first glance that although 4 hit dice is ridiculous, it was balanced because of it's weak defenses but Advanced Cloaking device ensures that it remains at 4 evade permanently as long as it can shoot first. And it can 1 shot anyone who gets in front of it. The ONLY reason I can hold my own VS it often is because my friend has trouble positioning it well during a decloaks. And he's getting better at it quickly.

I hear Flechette Torpedoes are supposed to screw up phantoms but how? He just needs to make a green maneuver while cloaked thus maybe missing killing something that turn and then things are back to where they left off.

The key to stressing a Phantom is stressing them before they attack. Because Advanced Cloaking Device is a free action, they can't do it while stressed. Echo is tricky to pin down, but let me assure you, 4 defense dice is not an impenetrable defense. I have one shot Fel at Range 3 way to many times.

Carnor can ruin some plans, but to fight him, you really need to spread out.

If you're running stuff like Jake and Garven your problem really isn't Carnor Jax (which is an awful use of points) or the Phantom (which is just really powerful and usually requires a turret) it's your squad, really. Try running some of the top lists against your buddy and you'll see an immediate difference.

I will deal with this in two different parts.

Part one.

The things that kill Phantoms are Roark (with swarm tactics involved ideally) Wedge with Veteran Instincts works as well)

Roark HWK 290 Ion Cannon Turret

Nera Daniels B, Flechette Torpedos x2, Swarm Tactics

Blue Squadron B

Blue Squadron B

This squadron, features a 360 turret style missile launcher that puts stress on the phantom at PS12 (preventing the cloak) then bumps either another Bwing or the ion cannon to 12 as well so that the Phantom doesn't even get to reveal a dial or clear stress.

Another way is

Wedge Antilles R2 X

Aiden Cracken Veteran Instincts Z

Biggs Darklighter X

Blue Squadron B with Fire Control System

This one is a biggs walks the doggs variant which allows aiden to take a pot shot first and absorb rebel captive, then hand out an order to wedge so he gets both TL and Focus and will probably pot a Phantom in one round if it is uncloaked.(You do need to get iniative so Wedge's 9 gets to shoot before the Phantoms sometimes)

The last option for trying to beat Phantoms is the Millenium Falcon usually.

Something like Han Solo YT1300 Veteran Instincts The Title, R2D2, C3P0 and Engine Upgrade

Bandit Squadron Z

Bandit Squadron Z

Rookie Squadron X

Carnor Jax dies to the same kind of issues. He isn't fond of higher PS pilots or Turrets as he can't arc dodge them. Basically all you do is Target locks against him if he is in arc.

Also Garvin is great in some squads just not sure you want to ever bid that many focus tokens into one squad.

Also there are a few situations where you can still get proton rockets off against carnor jax. (If Garvin is beyond Jax's range he can still take the Focus and then give it to someone else, Carnor doesn't prevent the hand off. Likewise a Kyle Katarn handing out a banked focus from Moldy crow. Course then you run into the issue that you are rolling five dice unmodified since you can't spend the focus anyway, but a target lock might push it to decent effect. (proton rockets doesn't spend the focus just the card so just need to have one to launch)

The Simple Truth In X-Wing,

Everything that beats you in a consistent manner will always feel unbalanced. Every squad stands on top of another squad triumphant in victory at the same time another squad stands on it, such is the circle of life in X-Wing.

Your simple solution is to change things up and progress around the circle until you have your new squad.......

Carnor jax hates target locks, pump him full of those and use Jan ors to bump your attacks up a notch. You'll notice a difference.

The key to beating a Phantom is either turreted guns or high pilot skill. You can combine the two (which is even better) but high pilot skill is enough, especially if you have some repositioning abilities (engine upgrades, barrel roll, etc).

Veteran Instincts is your friend here.

Look for passive upgrades / pilot abilities (i.e. ones which help modify or enhance attacks don't require a Focus to function).

Look for upgrades which will help you get into / out of arc.

Look for PS advantage so you can deploy last, move last & shoot before Echo recloaks.

Look to prioritise your targets and take them down one at a time. Identify the biggest threat, remove it, move on to the next.

but it's really really starting to wear me down.

Don't let it, adapt.

Carnor Jax screws over all my favorite squadron things. Kyle Katarn, Blaster Cannon, Proton Rocket, Jake Farrell, Garven Dreis and any attempts to keep my guys alive in general. Attempts to kill him are hampered by the lack of focus to get good hits or fire rockets and, again, lack of proton rockets. My guys are all dead in the water and Jax doesn't even have to do anything save exist.

Target Lock him on his way into Range 1 (which is where his ability works, not at R2 or R3.). Or play around it. He is squishy and is susceptible to being blocked. A blocked squint is a dead squint.

Advanced Cloaking device ensures that it remains at 4 evade permanently as long as it can shoot first.

Take a higher PS pilot and burn him.

And it can 1 shot anyone who gets in front of it.

It most certainly cannot.

Oh and there are quite a few stress abilities out there by now, use one/some of them so that he cannot cloak.

Carnor Jax may feel pretty powerful, but with only a focus and evade token to protect him from your Range 1 attacks, he is pretty fragile actually. Protect your squads with some Ion Turrets, or simply push your forward units a little further ahead to force him into collisions, and he goes down pretty quickly. Also, as a Rebel player, you have the TL option, which is really scary and frustrating from the Carnor Jax Player's POV.

ACD Phantoms wise, yep they are the most unbalanced thing in Xwing right now (right ahead / at the same level as C3P0). There really isnt much you can do from the "how to fly against it" standpoint, so if you didnt pack anti-phantom stuff, you are pretty much screwed.

Anti phantom stuff usually simply means PS 10 and above. A Roark HWK in your list will give you quite a reasonable chance of fighting off a phantom, but if you really want to go all the way, you could always Han + VI I suppose. On the Imperial side, Darth Vader crew is an extremely powerful tool, and Rebel Captive offers some defense against ACD phantoms since they cant re-cloak. Soontir PTL, Darth Vader TIEadv Outmaneuver Engine, Tycho PTL VI Missiles are also good ways to try and fight it off. HLC TL+F combos also work reasonably well provided you can sight the phantoms, even if they are cloaked.

It is a common attitude amongst new players -in every game- to start calling things broken, unbalanced, or overpowered the moment they find the slightest difficulty on their learning curves.

Seems that your opponent knows you like to abuse focus tokens, so it is not surprising that he chose to field Jax against you. Don't rely so much on focus/evade abilities. Try some new squads. Experiment with other pilots. If you only fly the same "perfect" squad (in your mind) your opponents will easily counter your strong points after a few matches.

Regarding the phantom, pick any of the given advice in this thread or from any of the dozens threads about it, most of them initiated by new players as well. But my personal favorite advice is "Just shoot it". For some strange reason, people thinks that once the phantom cloaks, it becomes immune to damage... If that were true, my interceptors with 4 agility would be immortal too....

Jan with veteran instincts and ion cannon

Makes short work of whisper

Fly her along side fat dash.

Problem solved

For new players, Han Solo is one of the most simple and reliable counters for Phantoms and whatnot

I can't believe someone actually considers Carnor OP

You put down Han Solo upgraded through the nose and your friend will be the next one to post a thread

Also remember that Prot Rockets only require you to have focus not that you spend it, so if Jake starts outside range 1 of jax (very likely) feel free to focus --> boost into range, PTL out a target lock, and shove 5 dice down Jax's throat. Works pretty well, usually.

Phantoms are a lot more trial and error. It takes a few games before you can start predicting where it can end up and, from there, where your opponent is most likely to put it. Echo specifically is a pain in the ass, but I found Jakes can keep up with her.

Veteran Instincts on Jakes will make dealing with both these pilots a lot easier (Veteran Instincts, Test Pilot, Push the Limit, Proton Rockets), especially echo since he fires before advanced cloaking can kick in

X-wing is Rock Paper Scissors. Rock will always seem overpowered if you always play scissors. Try playing paper.

Thankyou for the advice everyone. I don't have any Veteran Instincts, Millenium Falcons or multiple flachette torpedo but I see some useful tips.

It is a common attitude amongst new players -in every game- to start calling things broken, unbalanced, or overpowered the moment they find the slightest difficulty on their learning curves.

Seems that your opponent knows you like to abuse focus tokens, so it is not surprising that he chose to field Jax against you. Don't rely so much on focus/evade abilities. Try some new squads. Experiment with other pilots. If you only fly the same "perfect" squad (in your mind) your opponents will easily counter your strong points after a few matches.

Regarding the phantom, pick any of the given advice in this thread or from any of the dozens threads about it, most of them initiated by new players as well. But my personal favorite advice is "Just shoot it". For some strange reason, people thinks that once the phantom cloaks, it becomes immune to damage... If that were true, my interceptors with 4 agility would be immortal too....

Eeach paragraph of yours drips with condescension. I don't like your atitude.

in the event of casual games with friends, feel free to just inform them that you want to use whatever upgrade (Veteran instincts) and pretend its there

As long as your opponent is aware of it and agrees, anything goes in friendly games. It's also a pretty good deal for trying things out before investing in the actual product (especially since VI is tucked away with the awesome but pricey Firespray)

Thankyou for the advice everyone. I don't have any Veteran Instincts, Millenium Falcons or multiple flachette torpedo but I see some useful tips.

It is a common attitude amongst new players -in every game- to start calling things broken, unbalanced, or overpowered the moment they find the slightest difficulty on their learning curves.

Seems that your opponent knows you like to abuse focus tokens, so it is not surprising that he chose to field Jax against you. Don't rely so much on focus/evade abilities. Try some new squads. Experiment with other pilots. If you only fly the same "perfect" squad (in your mind) your opponents will easily counter your strong points after a few matches.

Regarding the phantom, pick any of the given advice in this thread or from any of the dozens threads about it, most of them initiated by new players as well. But my personal favorite advice is "Just shoot it". For some strange reason, people thinks that once the phantom cloaks, it becomes immune to damage... If that were true, my interceptors with 4 agility would be immortal too....

Eeach paragraph of yours drips with condescension. I don't like your atitude.

That's too bad for you. There is some good advice there.

I suggest you go back and look at it objectively.

What you need to understand is rebel scum deserve to be beaten over and over, terrorists working against galactic peace deserve no pity.

Thankyou for the advice everyone. I don't have any Veteran Instincts, Millenium Falcons or multiple flachette torpedo but I see some useful tips.

It is a common attitude amongst new players -in every game- to start calling things broken, unbalanced, or overpowered the moment they find the slightest difficulty on their learning curves.

Seems that your opponent knows you like to abuse focus tokens, so it is not surprising that he chose to field Jax against you. Don't rely so much on focus/evade abilities. Try some new squads. Experiment with other pilots. If you only fly the same "perfect" squad (in your mind) your opponents will easily counter your strong points after a few matches.

Regarding the phantom, pick any of the given advice in this thread or from any of the dozens threads about it, most of them initiated by new players as well. But my personal favorite advice is "Just shoot it". For some strange reason, people thinks that once the phantom cloaks, it becomes immune to damage... If that were true, my interceptors with 4 agility would be immortal too....

Eeach paragraph of yours drips with condescension. I don't like your atitude.

As has been stated above...you may not like his "attitude"...but he is offering you some solid advice...

The thing about bringing a list like yours that is built around a gimmick is that anything that prevents the gimmick from working guts the effectiveness of the list. If your friend would have shown up with Dark Curse you'd be in here complaining about him being over powered as well.

Frankly, it's pretty difficult *not* to provide advice that will seem condescending, because you called out one of the worst ships in the game as being overpowered, so you are going to hear variants of "do better" or "build a better list" because those are your real problems. Carnor Jax practically counters himself by forcing his owner to drive their 30ish point PS8 3hull 0shield model into range 1 of your opponents in order to use his pilot ability. Given how hilarious this thread is to most of us, I think Jehan did a really good job of providing some generically constructive advice.

As for Phantoms, well, Phantoms are strong ships and you're not bringing anything good to fight him. By the time you get good enough to realize how absurd it is to post a thread saying Carnor Jax is overpowered you'll know how to deal with Phantoms without needing us to tell you.

My friend uses these often and I was shrugging it off at first because I'm still new to the game myself and nothing's invincible but it's really really starting to wear me down.

Carnor Jax screws over all my favorite squadron things. Kyle Katarn, Blaster Cannon, Proton Rocket, Jake Farrell, Garven Dreis and any attempts to keep my guys alive in general. Attempts to kill him are hampered by the lack of focus to get good hits or fire rockets and, again, lack of proton rockets. My guys are all dead in the water and Jax doesn't even have to do anything save exist.

Tie Phantom is even worse. Using Echo it can pretty much go wherever you want it. I had thought at first glance that although 4 hit dice is ridiculous, it was balanced because of it's weak defenses but Advanced Cloaking device ensures that it remains at 4 evade permanently as long as it can shoot first. And it can 1 shot anyone who gets in front of it. The ONLY reason I can hold my own VS it often is because my friend has trouble positioning it well during a decloaks. And he's getting better at it quickly.

I hear Flechette Torpedoes are supposed to screw up phantoms but how? He just needs to make a green maneuver while cloaked thus maybe missing killing something that turn and then things are back to where they left off.

Phantoms can be hard to deal with.

The problem I'm seeing is your flying ships that work together by passing actions, and this is the only time jax excels.

Buy he really isnt that good.

He needs to be range 1.

So instead of focusing, just target lock him and he's toast.

And the problem with Garven and dutch type builds where your passing a lot of actions is 1) they can easily be outmaneuvered and 2) take one out and the chain is broken.

Whisper now she's is on a different level than jax, but again far from overpowered imo.

She becomes predictable. She can decloak in three directions.

Depending on asteroid and other ships that can limit her more.

Guess your buddies decloak, and block it or point your guns that way and now he'll have to choose get shot at, or decloak in another direction and maybe no shot at all, plus with turrets, engine upgrades, high ps ships, néw ways to hand out stress and etc there phantom is slowly losing its groove I think. Wave 5 definitely helped keep them in check that is for sure

So to make a statement to say Jax is overpowered and Whisper tells me that maybe you should try different lists and adopt your strategy

Jax especially is not overpowered.

I believe it's the weakness in your lists that jax excels at and your strategy

It is a common attitude amongst new players -in every game- to start calling things broken, unbalanced, or overpowered the moment they find the slightest difficulty on their learning curves.

Eeach paragraph of yours drips with condescension. I don't like your atitude.

That's too bad for you. There is some good advice there.

I suggest you go back and look at it objectively.

While people can certainly be condescending here, this post is at the rather mild end of it. It's better to not have long toes.