From an early development stage of X-Wing:

No 'Spend your target lock' and crits were auto direct hits.

Very interesting, this does bring up the question why do you have to spend your target lock then.

My guess was to balance it with the Tie Fighters that has no secondary weapons.

This almost should be its own thread. Thanks for the history lesson, it does share some valuable insight.

Actually there was no attack value printed on the Proton Torps upgrade card.

This could mean that the ships attack value was used which in this case would be a '2'.

I'm not sure about this to be honest.

Also notice the price in credits: 8 for the Rookie and 2 for the torps.

Looks like the Protons we have in game now are much better then this...

Is that:

4 agility

2 attack

1 hull

2 shields

Huh. That's... an interesting stat line!

Yup and Tie Fighters and X-wings had the same firepower. Also note that X-wing were 8 points and Tie Fighters were 4 points. Now that is crazy.

Missile Token reference card.

This card explains the rules for a missile token and serves as a reference to remind players of the effect.

Some card abilities, such as the "Concussion Missiles" Missile Upgrade card, allow a ship to make a secondary weapon attack. When a ship makes a secondary weapon attack with a Missile Upgrade card, if that attack would require you to discard the card, instead assign a missile token to the card.

A Missile Upgrade card with a missile token assigned to it follows special rules during these phases:

Activation Phase: A ship with a Missile Upgrade card with a missile token assigned to it gains the following ability: Action: you may remove the missile token from the Missile Upgrade.

Combat Phase: If you choose to make a secondary attack with this Missile Upgrade card, discard it to perform the attack.

Do something similar with torpedoes and bombs. Munitions Failsafe still does its job, allowing you to push out extra secondary weapon attacks without discarding in the event that you miss. Add the tokens with the Reference Cards as part of a Bombing Run upgrade pack with a new TIE Bomber paint job and a new Y-wing that also has several extra bomber upgrades for the Y and a new title for the Bomber (something simple but interesting, maybe a 2-point title that lets the Bomber convert Blanks to Focus results when using secondary weapons). Provide plenty of tokens for all the extra ships and munitions that people already own.

I had an idea for this mod. I realize that it invalidates Munition failsafe, but that was an attempt by ffg that didn't do enough.

Munitions Magazine - 0 pts Modification

Any time you use Ordinance flip it over instead of discarding it.

Action: You may flip any used ordinance card back face up.

This would help addess the cost issue of ordinance but would prevent them from being to powerfull as you cant use them every turn, unless your PTL or Vader.

It would also make then much more fluffy, since most ships, especially bombers carried dozens of muntions each. Also this would make the munitions failure crit much more feared.

This fix requires a minor change to the rules. Flipping cards over instead of discarding them, but other than that I think its a pretty elegant fix.

Also points cost could be tweaked but I feel that Ordinance is a little exspensive as is for a one use weapon.

I also like the idea of getting to use your TL when you discard it to fire ordinance.

This is the easiest way to go. You leave in place all the restrictions of target lock/focus and range while removing the single biggest barrier to people taking ordnance - the notion that you're only carrying one shot's worth of whatever missile or torpedo they spent an exorbitant amount of points for.

That was the idea I had for this mod, improving ordinance and making it more fluffy with no faq'ing of old card texts. Its just a new upgrade that modifies the rules for ordinance. I also think that it helps the older ordinance without overpowering the newer stuff. Though I have to admit A-wings with reloadable prockets would be scary.

The mod might need a points cost after all...

I had an idea for this mod. I realize that it invalidates Munition failsafe, but that was an attempt by ffg that didn't do enough.

Munitions Magazine - 0 pts Modification

Any time you use Ordinance flip it over instead of discarding it.

Action: You may flip any used ordinance card back face up.

This would help address the cost issue of ordinance but would prevent them from being to powerful as you cant use them every turn, unless your PTL or Vader.

It would also make then much more fluffy, since most ships, especially bombers carried dozens of munitions each. Also this would make the munitions failure crit much more feared.

This fix requires a minor change to the rules. Flipping cards over instead of discarding them, but other than that I think its a pretty elegant fix.

Also points cost could be tweaked but I feel that Ordinance is a little expensive as is for a one use weapon.

I also like the idea of getting to use your TL when you discard it to fire ordinance.

Streamline as:

[2] Magazine Upgrade:

"When you would discard a [t] or [m] card, flip it over instead.

Action: Flip 1 [t] or [m] card face-up."

I'd cost it at 2 simply because Munitions Failsafe is actually better for specific circumstances like Flechette Torps and Magazine Upgrade would be strictly better otherwise. This is still slightly cheaper for most 4atk ordnance than the nearest dice equivalent (HLC), which it ought to be for the action cost.

Also FFG has art for it already:

I had an idea for this mod. I realize that it invalidates Munition failsafe, but that was an attempt by ffg that didn't do enough.

Munitions Magazine - 0 pts Modification

Any time you use Ordinance flip it over instead of discarding it.

Action: You may flip any used ordinance card back face up.

This would help address the cost issue of ordinance but would prevent them from being to powerful as you cant use them every turn, unless your PTL or Vader.

It would also make then much more fluffy, since most ships, especially bombers carried dozens of munitions each. Also this would make the munitions failure crit much more feared.

This fix requires a minor change to the rules. Flipping cards over instead of discarding them, but other than that I think its a pretty elegant fix.

Also points cost could be tweaked but I feel that Ordinance is a little expensive as is for a one use weapon.

I also like the idea of getting to use your TL when you discard it to fire ordinance.

Streamline as:

[2] Magazine Upgrade:

"When you would discard a [t] or [m] card, flip it over instead.

Action: Flip 1 [t] or [m] card face-up."

I'd cost it at 2 simply because Munitions Failsafe is actually better for specific circumstances like Flechette Torps and Magazine Upgrade would be strictly better otherwise. This is still slightly cheaper for most 4atk ordnance than the nearest dice equivalent (HLC), which it ought to be for the action cost.

Also FFG has art for it already:

That's an interesting image. Where did you happen on it?!

That's an interesting image. Where did you happen on it?!

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/star-wars-armada/news/wave1/Gladiator-SD-Product-Shot_v3.png

Wow, I didn't realize they shared art between the games. Looking at the full picture, I see at least two Crew cards and one Team card from X-Wing. It makes sense to recycle art when you can, but it feels a little like they're cheating.

Anyway, if they go with the card route instead of updating the core rules, then I like the idea of a modification that lets you keep your missiles and torpedoes by spending an action. It would be a perfect card to introduce with the Missile Boat too.

I have playtested my Munitions Magazine mod and come up with a few changes. Here is the current version.

Munitions Magazine - 2pts - Modification

Whenever you use a (Torpedo) or (Missle) secondary weapon that instructs you to discard it, flip it face down instead.

During the End phase you may spend a (Focus) to flip all your facedown (Torpedo) and (Missle) cards face up.

After testing the initial card was better on ships with a single munition like X-wings since it only reloaded a single card per turn. This is more usefull on the real bombers, with multiple munitions. Hence the cost increase. The cost increase makes it not be an auto include on something like an x-wing (6 pts for a proton torp) but does make it much better on y-wings, b-wings, and tie bombers.

Adding the focus to the cost also makes it a little harder to abuse on the single munition ships, but adds an increased cost for getting say, all 4 tubes back on a bomber. Its harder to make it through a whole turn without using the focus token on defense sometimes, so there is an additional opportunity cost as well. This also helps abuse of Prockets since they use the focus to fire and without help could not be reloaded the same turn they are used. If you dont want that awing to reload its procket, keep shooting at it, its hard not to use a focus on an awing under fire sometimes.

If you had both a target lock and a focus and your fire a Proton Torp and got a good roll, you could reload it that same turn, or you could take a slightly subpar shot and save the focus for a reload, so there are choices to make in that regard.

There is also at least one ship per faction that can steal, strip, or deny use of focus to prevent reloading with the added focus cost.

Of course this gives the rebels a big leg up in ordinance with their various ways of handing out and sharing foucs, especiall in epic games.

Of course I know its almost impossible to get all 4 shots off with a tie bomber in a normal game, so what good is this mod for them then? My idea is that it adds versatility, the ability to take 4 different kinds of munitions. It also makes a y-wing or tie bomber bereft of munitions still very dangerous, so they will stay high in target priority which is good since they are so tanky. Pluse like I mentioned before, this make the muntions failure crit much scarier to a dedicated bomber.

I have playtested my Munitions Magazine mod and come up with a few changes. Here is the current version.

Munitions Magazine - 2pts - Modification

Whenever you use a (Torpedo) or (Missle) secondary weapon that instructs you to discard it, flip it face down instead.

During the End phase you may spend a (Focus) to flip all your facedown (Torpedo) and (Missle) cards face up.

Combine that with recon specialist for maximum effect. Which means Firespray, VT-49, YT-1300 and B-Wing. Mainly B-Wing.

Nera with recon specialist, deadeye and two torpedoes might turn into a monster.

I HAVE NOT READ THIS THREAD. I apologize for that and any implications arising from it. (Like the below idea having already been suggested and/or shot down.) I'm at work, and don't have time to read it now, but by coincidence an interesting thought anent ordnance -- interesting to me, anyway -- occurred to me this morning, and this seems like a good place for it.

What if you simply set points aside for missiles/torpedoes/bombs and decide on the payload at the beginning of a match.

Say you've got a Scimitar Squadron Pilot. You'd record that pilot at 16 points "plus X points of ordnance." You'd bring whatever cards you wanted to be able to equip, and during setup you'd decide which cards to equip. It would take all of five seconds, and it would make ordnance carriers much, much better at what they're supposed to be good at.

It doesn't matter if you use the full X points or not, BTW ... that ship is worth 16+X points out of your squad, and for victory points, regardless.

Whether the full X or just the points actually used should count for initiative purposes is a question for another day. If the latter, it would also allow an on-the-fly initiative bid.

I HAVE NOT READ THIS THREAD. I apologize for that and any implications arising from it. (Like the below idea having already been suggested and/or shot down.) I'm at work, and don't have time to read it now, but by coincidence an interesting thought anent ordnance -- interesting to me, anyway -- occurred to me this morning, and this seems like a good place for it.

What if you simply set points aside for missiles/torpedoes/bombs and decide on the payload at the beginning of a match.

Say you've got a Scimitar Squadron Pilot. You'd record that pilot at 16 points "plus X points of ordnance." You'd bring whatever cards you wanted to be able to equip, and during setup you'd decide which cards to equip. It would take all of five seconds, and it would make ordnance carriers much, much better at what they're supposed to be good at.

It doesn't matter if you use the full X points or not, BTW ... that ship is worth 16+X points out of your squad, and for victory points, regardless.

Whether the full X or just the points actually used should count for initiative purposes is a question for another day. If the latter, it would also allow an on-the-fly initiative bid.

Having a Sideboard like you are asking here has been mentioned in several capacities and in many earlier threads.

The claims that this would "fix" ordnance are wrong because the bad stuff is still bad and the good stuff is still good unless of course you are leaving points for the bad stuff but decide to fill it with the good stuff instead. Leaving 5 points for an Assault Missile to threaten a swarm with may be an idea although it may often be wasted but if paired with a more cost effective Ion Pulse Missile or Rockets you've suddenly made those upgrades a lot more expensive and killed their effectiveness.

I also don't believe you should be allowed to switch up a squadron so easily. When you send a ship into a fight you try to arm it the best you can with what you know but if it suddenly runs into something unexpected you can't just pull it out to put on a better ordnance load. In the real world if you sent out an F-15 with a superiority loadout but a ground attack situation developed you wouldn't send the plane back to rearm before coming back after the fight was over; similarly, if loaded for a bombing mission those bombs wouldn't be all that effective in enemy fighters attacked. That is how I look as squadrons in X-Wing.

I HAVE NOT READ THIS THREAD. I apologize for that and any implications arising from it. (Like the below idea having already been suggested and/or shot down.) I'm at work, and don't have time to read it now, but by coincidence an interesting thought anent ordnance -- interesting to me, anyway -- occurred to me this morning, and this seems like a good place for it.

What if you simply set points aside for missiles/torpedoes/bombs and decide on the payload at the beginning of a match.

Say you've got a Scimitar Squadron Pilot. You'd record that pilot at 16 points "plus X points of ordnance." You'd bring whatever cards you wanted to be able to equip, and during setup you'd decide which cards to equip. It would take all of five seconds, and it would make ordnance carriers much, much better at what they're supposed to be good at.

It doesn't matter if you use the full X points or not, BTW ... that ship is worth 16+X points out of your squad, and for victory points, regardless.

Whether the full X or just the points actually used should count for initiative purposes is a question for another day. If the latter, it would also allow an on-the-fly initiative bid.

A side board might be alright but the thing is you would have to specify additional rules for tournament play. Also you would have to make it so that the side board trades down, not up because players would try to exploit the side board to equip 102 point squadron by say listing proton rockets in the squadron and holding homing missiles in side board. Also make rules that the maximum point squadron for the side board remains as the point for considerations for who chooses imitative. You would have players underbid for initiative and with the side board also using the same method I mentioned above fielding a 100 point squadron but bidding 97 points for initiative. So as with the side board you can see it makes more complications and the more complications means the more loop holes and exploits.

Now as an alternative to a side board I would see if a request to switch upgrades between ships listed in the squadron be possible. As example moving munitions failsafe from a Gold Squadron to a Blue squadron pilot or having Tycho switching cluster missiles to a prototype pilot with chardaan refit that is also listed in the squadron. This is easier because it keeps the point value all the same and it uses all the same pilots and upgrade cards.

So instead of a side board have all upgrade be able to be swapped or moved around inside a squadron can be fine as long as the following conditions are met.

• The point value of the squadron remains the same after switches.
• All upgrade cards are compatible with the ship they are assigned to.
• All Pilots and Upgrade cards listed in the squadron list remain in the new configuration. No other pilot or upgrade card may be added, removed, or switched out with another card that is not in the original squadron list.

That is my opinion on in tournament list adjustments.

Something that I came up with is the idea of an upgrade card --a title, astromech, or modification, 0-2 points-- which reads something like:

"After attacking with a torpedo or missile, you may perform a primary attack."

After thinking about this a bit, it seemed like a pretty good idea. Turns that you spend firing Ordnance would be much more effective, mitigating the sometimes overbearing costs on some of the harder-hitting or niche secondaries while making TIE Bombers and Y-Wings that are loaded with some ordnance just a little stronger, and on ships which don't 'need' a torpedo to be effective --ala the X-Wing-- which gain very little firepower (if any, since you have to spend a TL) for how much it costs to take a torpedo.

It is however very possible that it could be tremendously overpowered in my opinion. For example, if A-wings were able to fire off a 3-dice attack at range one even after firing a round of Prockets, I doubt many small-base ships would ever be able to withstand such an onslaught.

As such, it could be prudent to restrict this upgrade to Torpedoes, which generally see less play in any case. Even then, a B-Wing with Proton Torpedoes and FCS (and potentially munitions failsafe) could be too strong when you consider the alpha-strike potential. Granted, it's 28 points for such a combo on a ps2 pilot, which might not be able to even get a TL on something it can shoot at. On something like Ten Numb with VI, FCS, and one Proton Torpedo upgrade, that's a whole 38 points for a ps10 Proton Torpedo + a range 2-3 shot with 3 dice and a TL.

Of course, I'm just a guy on the internet who hasn't run the math. Given thought, it's probably overpowered, but I thought I'd share it in any case.

Edit: One thing I forgot to mention is that this whole upgrade card kind of runs against the general philosophy right now, which is to make Ordnance hit harder; this could be a good or bad thing depending on who's talking.

From a canon perspective, I'm not completely sure how reasonable this is. In the X-Wing books, I don't have a single instance of recollection where somebody was firing multiple weapons at the same time. As far as I can recall, the pilots had to switch between being able to fire their torpedoes and their lasers. In some video games, however, you could fire both weapons at the same time, such as the Rogue Squadron series, and Star Wars: Battlefront 2.

I think that it would not be unreasonable to add this as a game mechanic from a lore perspective, even though it doesn't mesh -that- well with the existing lore, it's something that can be changed without too much of an issue* for the sake of gameplay.

*Based on my own very limited knowlege and experiences.

My suggestion is a modifier to the defenders agility based on the speed. The defenders speed minus the speed of the attacker to a maximum of zero.

My suggestion is a modifier to the defenders agility based on the speed. The defenders speed minus the speed of the attacker to a maximum of zero.

When you say "speed," are you referring to the attacker's and defender's agility value, or the highest value that their respective dials can rotate to?