Hi folks

Started first round IA yesterday with 5 players. I took my time to explain all the rules while the tutorial mission. After everybody was familiar with the rules we did set up a campaign as described in RRG. My rebell player did choose to play Jyn, Mak, Fenn and Gideon. All of them are ranged characters. Despite the indication of one rebell player that the Wookie is pretty strong they stayed with theyre characters. I dont think that there is anything wrong with it but this would be my first question. Does anyone of you play with a rebell group without melee characters? If so did you observe any balancing issues?

We played the introdutory mission first. My rebells did closely miss their goal in round six. It was down to the wire, at least from my perspective. I had the impression that my rebells strugeled with the spontaneous events in that Mission. I managed to wound all of them and fulfill my goal, supported by "Show of Force" which I used as often as possible (once per round). Fair enough my players where somehow underwhelmed by the end of the mission. I granted everybody his reward and we proceeded with post mission clean up and upgrade.

After that I took the "Under Siege" mission and placed it as active main mission. I shuffeled the side mission deck and placed "Spice Job" and "Sorry for the mess" active. My rebells decided to go for the Spice Job mission. We did set up the board and I read the mission introduction and goals aloud. Right after the beginning my players complained that they are not able to succeed because of the five rounds time limit. I said that they should at least try. After that we played along and my players failed to accomplish their goal by claiming all Spice-tokens. For claiming the last token the did roll six times to get a surge symbol but failed in the end. Again the atmosphere was depressed and my player started complaining about the balancing and the round limit.

Retrospectiveley the played well. They used their abilities, items and synergies and pushed towards the missions goals. I did not make it easy for them because they're expirienced players but everything was within the rules.

Did anyone encounter similiar problems? And if rebells loose a series of missions in a row, do they have a chance against the stronger imperial player in the end? Is the gap fillable even when running on "Additional Rewards" as a rebell team?

Comments are most appreciated

Cheers

So your players flubbed 6 rolls and then are complaining about balance. They seem to have had more then ample opportunity despite the round limit.

When we start our campaign properly my mate I know for a fact will pick 2 range 2 melee so I am going to be in the thick of it with the Imps

So your players flubbed 6 rolls and then are complaining about balance. They seem to have had more then ample opportunity despite the round limit.

That's still a legitimate complaint though. Players should feel like their victory or defeat is on account of their abilities, not entirely out of their control.

I'm not trying to say that dice should entirely removed, mind you. They are certainly a legitimate and generally entertaining mechanic (generally). But players who have done everything else right shouldn't be defeated only because they can't successfully role what they need.

Yeah I think the Wookie is good, and the Jedi is alright. but most enemies the Heroes face are ranged and thus ranged characters are a tad favored as they can double tap and not waste an action to move in close. Heck in my campaign I'm the Jedi and thought COOL! I'll run in and beat people in melee, do force tricks and be awesome! Wrong. At the moment I spend most of my time resting to recharge stamin and give out focus to complement the Force Adept rerolls. Very rarely am I called into combat. So the team sounds fine.

I've seen a TON of people having trouble with Aftermath. It's a deceptively simple looking objective and board setup, but is most definitely not forgiving of even the tiniest detour or delay. Open door, focused E-web, Ow, door shuts and splits party=f***. Try again, get everyone inside door, terminals armor up, still have troopers to deal with=f***. And pretty much every mission after that is like that with their insanely tight turn limit. Keep at it. I just had to accept that it was an edge of your seat rush kind of game.

Yeah I think the Wookie is good, and the Jedi is alright. but most enemies the Heroes face are ranged and thus ranged characters are a tad favored as they can double tap and not waste an action to move in close. Heck in my campaign I'm the Jedi and thought COOL! I'll run in and beat people in melee, do force tricks and be awesome! Wrong. At the moment I spend most of my time resting to recharge stamin and give out focus to complement the Force Adept rerolls. Very rarely am I called into combat. So the team sounds fine.

I've seen a TON of people having trouble with Aftermath. It's a deceptively simple looking objective and board setup, but is most definitely not forgiving of even the tiniest detour or delay. Open door, focused E-web, Ow, door shuts and splits party=f***. Try again, get everyone inside door, terminals armor up, still have troopers to deal with=f***. And pretty much every mission after that is like that with their insanely tight turn limit. Keep at it. I just had to accept that it was an edge of your seat rush kind of game.

Door cannot close and terminals armor up in same mission. Not sure you are talking about same mission or a second attempt at Aftermath.

When I played through a campaign as Rebs, it did feel like after I had lost the first three missions, there was really no coming back. I managed to win, I think, three missions (two of which were fairly easy side missions), but the Empire had gained so much more stuff by the end that I got carved up by ridiculously amped up stormtroopers before I even had a chance to get near the objective.

Also, tend to agree on range v. melee. I played Diala-Gaarkhan-Gideon-Jyn, and if I tried it again I would definitely go three range and Gaarkhan.

Yeah I think the Wookie is good, and the Jedi is alright. but most enemies the Heroes face are ranged and thus ranged characters are a tad favored as they can double tap and not waste an action to move in close. Heck in my campaign I'm the Jedi and thought COOL! I'll run in and beat people in melee, do force tricks and be awesome! Wrong. At the moment I spend most of my time resting to recharge stamin and give out focus to complement the Force Adept rerolls. Very rarely am I called into combat. So the team sounds fine.

I've seen a TON of people having trouble with Aftermath. It's a deceptively simple looking objective and board setup, but is most definitely not forgiving of even the tiniest detour or delay. Open door, focused E-web, Ow, door shuts and splits party=f***. Try again, get everyone inside door, terminals armor up, still have troopers to deal with=f***. And pretty much every mission after that is like that with their insanely tight turn limit. Keep at it. I just had to accept that it was an edge of your seat rush kind of game.

Door cannot close and terminals armor up in same mission. Not sure you are talking about same mission or a second attempt at Aftermath.

So your players flubbed 6 rolls and then are complaining about balance. They seem to have had more then ample opportunity despite the round limit.

That's still a legitimate complaint though. Players should feel like their victory or defeat is on account of their abilities, not entirely out of their control.

I'm not trying to say that dice should entirely removed, mind you. They are certainly a legitimate and generally entertaining mechanic (generally). But players who have done everything else right shouldn't be defeated only because they can't successfully role what they need.

You can't have a game with an element of chance without having the rare game completely decided by a string of odd dice rolls. While that chance is statically unlikely to frequently occur it by nature must occur sometimes.

The OP noted that the players are complaining about the lack of time given to finish the mission. But in the example that he provided the lack of time clearly wasn't a real problem. If anything that example supports that the Rebels had too much time since they had the ability to fail 6 checks before they ran out of time.

I really want to love Imperial Assault, but I'm not sure I am totally convinced.

I have been playing a 3 player game, with myself and a friend playing Jyn and Diala (with double activations). In the first few missions we tried to play in such a way where we balanced reducing the number of imperial player activations with getting the objectives and frankly we got trounced. We were unable to kill the Imperials faster than they could be deployed. Naturally as the threat level goes up this becomes even more difficult (despite upgrades to our heroes).

So we changed our tactic and started winning by basically avoiding combat, but the new tactic feels rather dull. With Jyn I can move up to 12 squares per activation, or 24 per round (including strain). Making it trivial to cross the entire map in a single round and seemingly breaking the spirit of the game. Thoughts?

Thanks for all your replies, ceep it comming

It seems to me that Aftermath is indeed a obstacle to overcomme when first playing the game.

Played it with my wife yesterday and she had Mak and Gaarkhan and did catch victory by dicing off in the last round too.

Again we did everything right with sarting rewards and rules and stuff, so we got all that bases coverd. In addition she's not a casual player and used to games like this. Still she wasnt able to turn tides towards her favour.

A game should always give players a fair chance to win especially if victory is not easy to accomplish. Dicing off at a mission objective to claim it will always feel dull if it is the last throw a team has. Yes dices are in the game for random chance like in RPGs and tons of other games and I like them. Sometimes they can be ******* and I like that too but in my case rebells did six rolls with 3 dices. Every one of them has a good chance to surge out but it simply didn't happen. That was a rather dull situation, even for me.

I'm thinking about getting an additional Hero into the game to ease the missions. I'm totally aware that this might throw the blancing right out of the window but if no ones is having fun at the table it seems a good option to me.

Please keep further reports and comments comming. I like to hear about your solutions. How you folks are dealing with difficulty etc. I'm sure that someone @FFG is reading this stuff too, even if they dont reply. So it may not hurt for the balancing of the nex campaign-set too

With Jyn I can move up to 12 squares per activation, or 24 per round (including strain). Making it trivial to cross the entire map in a single round and seemingly breaking the spirit of the game. Thoughts?

This is the reason I decided to run all 4 heroes instead of 2 legendary heroes. At the time I made that decision, it seemed that would make the game a bit fairer for the Imperials and maintain a level of "realism".

What I didn't count on was the fact that I would be totally trounced mission after mission because of the time limit. You can't afford to waste actions resting to heal up, so you're soaking up damage from the Imperials doing your best to try to move forward while taking a few of them out to lessen the amount of damage you take in return.

I really think for a normal 4-hero game, the time limit should be removed (or extended). The Rebels and Imperials are pretty well balanced in strength, and with the constant reinforcement from the Imperials, they easily win a war of attrition since they only need to wound, not KO, all 4 heroes as a general win condition for them.

I only have about half a campaign of experience so far, but I think the game is a tad too hard for a 4-Rebel team. I'll try it again with two Rebels next time and see if it's any better for the Rebels.

I have found the time limit on most of the missions I have done so far to be spot on. It was enough turns that the objectives were possible while still keeping the game tense. I should also point out that there are quite a few missions that aren't timed (so far in my campaign I have had 4 timed and 3 not timed). I see no reason why the rebels can't come back from a few failed missions, but if they continue losing missions I imagine they will have a hard time. Have either of your played Descent? I have actually found playing Descent makes it harder to pick up and learn IA since they are similar, but the strategy behind playing them is significantly different.

I really want to love Imperial Assault, but I'm not sure I am totally convinced.

I have been playing a 3 player game, with myself and a friend playing Jyn and Diala (with double activations). In the first few missions we tried to play in such a way where we balanced reducing the number of imperial player activations with getting the objectives and frankly we got trounced. We were unable to kill the Imperials faster than they could be deployed. Naturally as the threat level goes up this becomes even more difficult (despite upgrades to our heroes).

So far the rebel player I have been playing against (2 legendary heroes) has easily managed to wipe out my imperial troops in the lower threat missions and still complete the objectives (though Aftermath was a close call). I will admit that it gets more difficult in the 3-4 threat level missions for the rebels to kill all of my figures.

So your players flubbed 6 rolls and then are complaining about balance. They seem to have had more then ample opportunity despite the round limit.

That's still a legitimate complaint though. Players should feel like their victory or defeat is on account of their abilities, not entirely out of their control.

I'm not trying to say that dice should entirely removed, mind you. They are certainly a legitimate and generally entertaining mechanic (generally). But players who have done everything else right shouldn't be defeated only because they can't successfully role what they need.

You can't have a game with an element of chance without having the rare game completely decided by a string of odd dice rolls. While that chance is statically unlikely to frequently occur it by nature must occur sometimes.

The OP noted that the players are complaining about the lack of time given to finish the mission. But in the example that he provided the lack of time clearly wasn't a real problem. If anything that example supports that the Rebels had too much time since they had the ability to fail 6 checks before they ran out of time.

Sure, but good games have ways to mitigate this. Yes, sometimes the dice just aren't in your favor--but a good game has to be more than that. In the given scenario, the players appear to have arrived early--something that takes skillful play--and should have been rewarded for that earliness. It's one thing to dash in on the last possible activation and fail a dice roll and something entirely different to sit there waiting and flubbing.

The time limit exacerbates the problem by preventing the die rolls from eventually averaging out.

Now, as it turns out, IA does have mechanic to fix this problem: failed skill checks automatically generate one surge (or more?) to represent the heroes making progress. There are also techniques like Force Adept to allow re-rolls when necessary or Focus to boost rolling power, but these techniques can be hard to come by.

That's the thing, the rebel players were rewarded for their earliness. They were rewarded with more attempts at the skill checks. When dice are involved in a game occasionally you will come up with wonky bad luck scenarios like the one listed above. I can tell you this much, my players rarely fail an attribute test with three dice, the fact that this team failed 6 of them is kind of insane. Also, in the mission that is being talked about Chewbacca automatically picks up the spice with an action, so there wouldn't have even been a roll. So, the mission does have a built in way to reduce the need for the randomness of dice.

Now, as it turns out, IA does have mechanic to fix this problem: failed skill checks automatically generate one surge (or more?) to represent the heroes making progress.

This is wrong, you do not automatically generate one surge for failing a test. If this were the case every single attribute test would pass. Are you thinking of Attribute tests that require more than one success? Even these, you place one strain token for each surge you rolled that the next player can spend to add surges to their check, showing progress being made. You certainly don't automatically add one though, if you rolled 0 surges you would add 0 strain tokens.

It's not that just Chewbacca automatically picks up spice tokens it us that an elite figure automatically gains 1 success on any attribute test it performs. That goes for any mission in which an elite ally is available to perform an attribute test.

I've been thinking about some of the issues presented in this thread today. To some people, it's ridiculous and athematic when running through a mission is the best option. They'd rather fight it out. So I was trying to think of times in the original trilogy where the Rebels stand their ground and destroy all of the enemies.i can think of very few. Well, one, to be precise. That it is when Han, Luke, and Chewie take control of the detention level corridor. Even then, reinforcements soon arrive and force the heroes to flee. The other combat scenes all seem to involve getting away.

-Trench Run: Blow up the Death Star before the base is blown up. Forget the fighters and get to the trench!

-Mos Eisley escape: Run from the troopers, run from the Star Destroyers.

-Hoth: Hold off the Imperials long enough to get Echo Base evacuated.

-Bespin escape: Stop Boba Fett (failed) and get to the Falcon.

-Battle over the Great Pit of Carkoon: Fight through enough bad guys to point the gun at the deck and blow up the sail barge.

I could keep going, but the point is that I actually feel that spending a turn using both activations to move is thematic and exciting. I'm sure this comes down to personal preference and others will feel differently, but I wanted to share my thoughts.

Finally, I think one reason the good guys don't win in the movies by "defeating" all the bad giys is because good guys often win by getting the bad guys to surrender, so there isn't necessarily a fight. Think of Lando rescuing Leia and Chewie on Cloud City, or the Han tricking the Imperials in the Endor shield bunker to come out.

Many players can't get by the fact that you don't need to, and won't suceed, planting your feet and mowing down Stormtroopers. Now maybe one player can be that guy, but not everyone.

Attacks must be prioritized as opposed to just taken.

My experience is different. The heroes are quite strong and well rounded. I'm against Gaark, Fenn and Mak and they totally annihilate imperial units. Mak is a great sniper, usually manages to ambush and kill units with a single or double attack. He builds up strain, but then 1 single rest is enough to bring him back as new. Fenn keeps far away from others and lone wolf just removes its strain or, if wounded, he slowly heals. Gaark is a total fury, eliminating one or more figures per round (with cleave on already wounded). He can take a lot of punch and normally is in the first line. Stormtroopers simply can't stand up. He managed to bring down a lightly wounded elite E-web engineer with a charge and attack.

Heroes always try to attack twice per round, using strain for moving (also Fenn can give some move points around). In the first 2 rounds, they eliminate all initial deployment and in the first missions imperials can't deploy anything. On third round, finally imperials can bring in something, but as an example 3 stormtroopers don't stand up a round. They even managed once to clean up the exterior of a building and have one free round for demolishing a door without any attack (imperals could not deploy anything).

Missions are balanced just because of the round limit. Without the limit, imperials have no chances. Yes, they can manage to wound Gaark, but it seems impossible to wound all heroes.

My experience is different. The heroes are quite strong and well rounded. I'm against Gaark, Fenn and Mak and they totally annihilate imperial units. Mak is a great sniper, usually manages to ambush and kill units with a single or double attack. He builds up strain, but then 1 single rest is enough to bring him back as new. Fenn keeps far away from others and lone wolf just removes its strain or, if wounded, he slowly heals. Gaark is a total fury, eliminating one or more figures per round (with cleave on already wounded). He can take a lot of punch and normally is in the first line. Stormtroopers simply can't stand up. He managed to bring down a lightly wounded elite E-web engineer with a charge and attack.

Heroes always try to attack twice per round, using strain for moving (also Fenn can give some move points around). In the first 2 rounds, they eliminate all initial deployment and in the first missions imperials can't deploy anything. On third round, finally imperials can bring in something, but as an example 3 stormtroopers don't stand up a round. They even managed once to clean up the exterior of a building and have one free round for demolishing a door without any attack (imperals could not deploy anything).

Missions are balanced just because of the round limit. Without the limit, imperials have no chances. Yes, they can manage to wound Gaark, but it seems impossible to wound all heroes.

I'm curious about a few things here. Why was the Empire not able to deploy anything for an entire round in this game? Also, in Aftermath, I've managed to withdraw a character a few times and defeat all of them many times. Have you considered using your Storm troopers as blockers? The Officer's power to move a trooper every round is huge. My tactic is to always delay the Rebel force as best I can. I only have to keep one terminal alive by end of round 6.

It's not that just Chewbacca automatically picks up spice tokens it us that an elite figure automatically gains 1 success on any attribute test it performs. That goes for any mission in which an elite ally is available to perform an attribute test.

The main reason I worded it that way is, if I remember correctly, the mission says that Chewbacca automatically picks up spice tokens with an action and doesn't need to make an attribute test.

In Aftermath not being able to deploy anything for a round is not all that unusual. As an example, I had my entire squad of stormtroops killed on the very first round of Aftermath. This meant I couldn't redeploy them until round 3 (6 threat) at the earliest. That's two rounds of not deploying anything.

I'm not sure if some of you are playing against poor Imperial strategists or if you're extremely lucky with dice rolls, but the Imperials have had no problem winning the past several missions. And I'm talking about when you actually get into the meat of the campaign, where the Imperial player has at least 4 threat. I was able to win the first couple missions (as the Rebel player) since he only had 2 threat and no abilities, though it still took a bit of effort on my part. From then on, it's slowly become more and more of a slaughter.

Dealing with a group of Stormtroopers with +2 health (and him able to reinforce them easily every round since I can't defeat all 3 in one round) is hard enough, but then add a couple Nexu, a probe droid, and eventually an AT-ST and/or Elites are bound to show up, and winning requires extremely lucky dice rolls.

And no, I don't stick around trying to kill all the enemies. Of course that's ludicrous. I'm always moving towards the objective, but you can't just ignore the Imperials either since they will cut you down quickly if you let them all gang up on you. And at this point my Imperial opponent has cards that give him a free focus before rolling attack dice, allow him to make 2 attacks at the cost of being stunned, and the aforementioned +2 health to any group.

I honestly don't see how anyone can think the time limit is spot on. Please tell me how you were able to reach all 3 terminals in only 7 rounds in one of the story missions. They're behind locked doors that require damage to be destroyed (and get a defense die) and are spread so far apart, it takes several rounds just to get from one to the next. That by itself is bad enough without the ridiculously powerful reinforcements that appear in that one.

Have either of your played Descent? I have actually found playing Descent makes it harder to pick up and learn IA since they are similar, but the strategy behind playing them is significantly different.

Yes, I've played Descent. I love Descent. In fact I'm running as the Overlord in a campaign simultaneously while my friend is running as the Imperials in Imperial Assault. And I roll my eyes at how easy the Imperial player has it compared to me as the Overlord. I have to wait for all his Heroes to activate first, so often one of my groups is completely eliminated before I can even use them. The Imperials (at the point in the campaign we are now) get 4 points worth of reinforcements for free each round (which can include adding new groups to the map) in addition to whatever the campaign gives him. I've been very limited on my reinforcements and never have an opportunity to add additional groups unless the campaign itself adds more. Cards I acquire through experience get shuffled randomly into my deck, so I sometimes don't even see them in a quest, and when I do it's one use and discard. The IA player gets to put his cards directly into his play area from the start and use them repeatedly every round. Plus the hero player in Descent is allowed to completely read the campaign information at any time so knows precisely what surprises await him and exactly what he needs to do to win. In IA, I'm clueless as to what surprises await me, and sometimes lose because I wasn't given enough information (re: my thread about Generous Donations).

And despite all this, I can still win as the Overlord through some strategic playing (and lucky dice). The only time I've even come close to winning as the Rebels (aside from the first couple missions where things were a lot more balanced) was when I played brilliantly and rescued Han Solo early and only needed to protect him while he got away. Unfortunately the Elite Stormtroopers mowed him down before he got very far.