5h vs 3h1c isn't really "not that good" though.

You are spending 3 points to get what amounts to an extra die on one attack. Spending that same 3 points on something like Predator or Outmaneuver will be more helpful overall. If you've got extra points looking for a home it's not horrible but it would be pretty far down on my list of priorities.

His ability's actually good with Prockets because you get a focus+TL shot without stress.

You have to be at range 1 though to get a free target lock. EU would be better so you can boost into range 1 but unless you can take a free focus action the ability is not that good.

Sure if you already in range 1 then yes prockets + focus + free TL in a 3 agility ship is devastating however again you need to get range 1 in arc.

Alozen with EU will be great on the receiving end of Squad Leader. He would be able to boost or barrel-roll at a higher PS and then get a TL on whatever he pounced on.

His ability's actually good with Prockets because you get a focus+TL shot without stress.

Proton Rockets aren't that good if you've got ATC though. You'd probably be better off spending those 3 points on Predator. They might be pretty good if you took Accuracy Corrector though as TL+Focus Proton Rockets gives a nice damage spike to go along with the lower but consistent damage from Accuracy Corrector.

Predator with ATC is a solid option (I'll be taking it with Vader!), but PTL is good also.

Alozen is kind of made for the ATC, so I'll be taking it over AC on him. I'd also consider running him with Expert Handling for a) barrel roll free action and b) a tiny bit of extra tankiness from removing a target lock.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a barrel role, (most) every turn, a target lock (most) every turn, and a whole other action on top of that!

Hes pretty good! I like.

for 4 more points you get a PS5, a good synergistic ability with the crits off ATC AND an EPT slot.

The EPT is really important! You can put something like wingman or DTF on him. DTF is great for advanced.

I think he's a great design to be honest.

He is so great designed, he even has a red-lit cockpit.

His ability's actually good with Prockets because you get a focus+TL shot without stress.

Proton Rockets aren't that good if you've got ATC though. You'd probably be better off spending those 3 points on Predator. They might be pretty good if you took Accuracy Corrector though as TL+Focus Proton Rockets gives a nice damage spike to go along with the lower but consistent damage from Accuracy Corrector.

Alozen is kind of made for the ATC, so I'll be taking it over AC on him. I'd also consider running him with Expert Handling for a) barrel roll free action and b) a tiny bit of extra tankiness from removing a target lock.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a barrel role, (most) every turn, a target lock (most) every turn, and a whole other action on top of that!

I might have misunderstood what you meant about Expert Handling but I think you've got the way it works wrong. Unless you are taking Experimental Interface to trigger Expert Handling it isn't going to get you an extra action. Expert Handling is an action. It lets you take a barrel-roll and drop a TL but it still counts as your action.

"Action: perform a free barrel roll action."

So you can do something else after it.

"Action: perform a free barrel roll action."

So you can do something else after it.

The barrel roll is a free action but the Expert Handling action is not. So no you can't do another action after.

Well, you can do the expert handling, then aquire a TL on a target within range one..

"Action: perform a free barrel roll action."

So you can do something else after it.

See that Action header, it means that you must perform an action in order to use it. You need Experimental Interface to get another action.

How about:

Accuracy Corrector

Cluster Missile

Ruthlessness

With TL+Focus and 2 more auto damage you're looking at a potential 8 damage shot and "guaranteed" 6. Of course they'll evade but the odds are ever in you favor on this one vs. 1 AG targets with escorts.

How about:

Accuracy Corrector

Cluster Missile

Ruthlessness

With TL+Focus and 2 more auto damage you're looking at a potential 8 damage shot and "guaranteed" 6. Of course they'll evade but the odds are ever in you favor on this one vs. 1 AG targets with escorts.

Jonus, Alozen, Maarek, all with cluster, ruthlessness, and ATC for after the fireworks.

Slap on an Ion pulse for Jonus at R3 since he doesnt spend the lock, and to make large base ships go where you want.

Splash damage everywhere.

Alozen will probably need Vet. Instincts if used in the current meta. The problem comes in with high PS ships being able to get out of range of him. Of course, he can use VI, which is great.

I don't think he's one you want to tool up. I think he's fine with a cheap VI put on him. Maybe a Cluster Missile.

Is VI to go from 5 to 7 really making that much of a difference in the current meta, though?

I like the idea of ATC and Predator on him. He'd be a heck of a generic hunter. Barrel Roll if need be into Range 1, Focus if already there. Roll 3 dice with Focus, re-rolling up to 2, and a free [kaboom] as well!

Is VI to go from 5 to 7 really making that much of a difference in the current meta, though?

It does not.

People are just so used to spending VI on ships to counter Phantoms that they've forgotten that sometimes, it doesn't work.

Is VI to go from 5 to 7 really making that much of a difference in the current meta, though?

It does not.

People are just so used to spending VI on ships to counter Phantoms that they've forgotten that sometimes, it doesn't work.

"Look Sir, Phantoms!"

"Send in the veterans."

*a few minutes later*

"Sir...the battle was a complete rout."

"Huzzah! Success!"

"Uh, no Sir. We lost. Everyone."

"I don't understand, how could this happen??"

"Our supposed veterans were only 'mediocre' before honing their instincts to 'above average', sir."

"****"

People are talking about spending ~30 points on a PS5 Proton Rocket like that's gonna win games. How is that match going to play out against anything that's actually good?

People are talking about spending ~30 points on a PS5 Proton Rocket like that's gonna win games. How is that match going to play out against anything that's actually good?

I agree that PS5 Proton Rocket for 30pts won't win games. That said, that same ship can probably make up its points. It's gonna have pretty good survivability, (3 evade, 2 shields, 3 hull, and the evade action) fairly good offense (free systems upgrade, free TL, 1 attack of 5 tl and focused dice). I think that is worth it. Or at least worth considering.

Respectfully, it's very easy to say "Here are the things I like about (insert loadout/ship here) and that's why it will be good" and it even sounds convincing if you don't think about it too hard, but the problem isn't with all the things that someone can say about a ship that everyone knows about anyway (ex: telling someone that says an Advanced with Proton Rockets sucks, that Proton Rockets offer a 5-dice attack isn't actually doing anything other than reading the card to them) the problem actually lies with all the things it does poorly or replaces to do it's mediocre job. If bringing 3 AGI, 5 health, and a proton rocket w/ a free target lock in the 30 point range was any good, then something simple like a basic E-wing with FCS would be at bare minimum at least a workable ship, it wouldn't be the current gold standard for an overpriced garbage generic.

You're either getting a cheap one, which is just two TIE fighters with higher variance and less HP and bodies to block, or you're getting an expensive one, that needs to get a ton of mileage out of the new upgrades to compete with the Phantom. Vader might be able to swing it now that his ship won't do so little damage as to be completely ignored, and he could pull something like EI/Squad Leader off to abuse the action economy to enable some previously weaker options (and he will probably need to since they cost an amount of points that makes them difficult to fit into many of the current good lists well), and the guy that fishes for Direct Hit will probably show up somewhere. Beyond that, the new guys will have to have absurd pilot abilities (ghetto action economy is not absurd enough) to even put up a worthwhile showing on the table.

People are playing scenarios in their heads where these ships are going to be flying around terrorizing everyone with their tons of free crits and frankly that won't happen. Any of the currently good lists, and several mediocre ones, can and will reliably point at a TIE-A and bring it down in a turn. The ship cannot do the kind of damage required to mitigate that, and your list cannot bring 65ish points of other stuff to make up for that kind of loss, either by surviving vs the remaining enemy points or by somehow having enough extra damage to make up for the TIE-A getting focused down. The TIE's dial is mediocre at best, so any arc dodging that uses PTL to maintain accuracy (remember - you can't burn your target lock for your free crit, which is a gigantic nerf to the damage of your other two dice) will leave the Advanced with few options on subsequent turns, and if you actually manage to get past a competent player's arcs and his turrets don't find it worth shooting you, you can't punish them for ignoring it because it doesn't do Whisper levels of damage.

You can mitigate being focused as a threat by:
Having a lot of efficient bodies (B-wings, TIE Swarm, Z95 supports)

Having a lot of efficient hull (Decimator, Han, TIE Swarm)

Optimizing the ratio of incoming to return fire. Being an "Arc Dodger" is one of a few ways of accomplishing this (Decimator, 2400, Biggs, 1300, Corran w/ R2, ACD Phantoms)

Ships like the Firespray and Lambda w/ Engines/FCS are notable combinations of the second and third option.

The Tie Advanced can't do the first two at all and is mediocre at the third. Unless some combination of whatever the unspoiled cards in the Raider do allows Adv + Decimator to outperform Adv + Phantom I don't predict us seeing it get very far in high-level play. The closest list I can see being any good would be if you got Vader in the standard TIE swarm in such a way that he boosts the damage or durability of the swarm more than the TIEs he would be replacing, possibly by evading and handing another one to Howlrunner and just taking the accuracy corrector. Beyond that? Meh.

The Tie Advance is a medium fighter. Nothing more (and nothing less - thanks to the fix)

Alonzen is a very interesting one. He don't need his EPT to make his ability work.

With 'Wingman' he would be a good wingman for any Advanced with PTL or EI.

With 'VI' he would be a good wingman for Maarek, since both share the same PS value.

Or hence 'Decoy'.

Due to his low PS value of 5 and his ability, Alozen is made for 'Opportunist':

Alozen + ATC + Opportunist = 30 points

Even if it might not be trivial to catch a target without focus/evade token in range 1 - you are able to get 4 dice + Focus + TL (1 crit)

I think the problem he will have is that vader and marek r still better choices, unless ur restricted points wise ppl will naturally go for one of them instead.

I still find it funny to hear "Maarek is a better choice". That's going to take some getting used to.

Is VI to go from 5 to 7 really making that much of a difference in the current meta, though?

It does not.

People are just so used to spending VI on ships to counter Phantoms that they've forgotten that sometimes, it doesn't work.

The fact that Wave 6 includes a whopping 2 ships with PS over 7 (Boba and Serissu at 8) escapes people at times methinks. PS isn't going to be quite as important 3 months from now. Especially with guys like Mux running around zapping people down to 0.

Is VI to go from 5 to 7 really making that much of a difference in the current meta, though?

It does not.

People are just so used to spending VI on ships to counter Phantoms that they've forgotten that sometimes, it doesn't work.

The fact that Wave 6 includes a whopping 2 ships with PS over 7 (Boba and Serissu at 8) escapes people at times methinks. PS isn't going to be quite as important 3 months from now. Especially with guys like Mux running around zapping people down to 0.

Neither of those things is going to bring down the PS of Rebel or Imperial lists. High PS will still be in demand to arc dodge or to deal with arc dodgers and Phantoms will still need to be dealt with. Autothrusters are going to make Soontir Fel and Carnor Jax better choices than they are currently. I haven't seen anything coming out in Wave 6 that looks like it will lessen the number of Phantoms that you'll be likely to encounter other than the existence of a new faction will cause lower the percentage of both Rebel and Imperial lists being played.

I expect that there will be a lot of VI Fett, Kath, Kavil and any other decent PS7 or higher Scum ship. I'd be surprised if the majority of Scum lists don't include at least one ship of PS 9 or 10.

Is VI to go from 5 to 7 really making that much of a difference in the current meta, though?

It does not.

People are just so used to spending VI on ships to counter Phantoms that they've forgotten that sometimes, it doesn't work.

The fact that Wave 6 includes a whopping 2 ships with PS over 7 (Boba and Serissu at 8) escapes people at times methinks. PS isn't going to be quite as important 3 months from now. Especially with guys like Mux running around zapping people down to 0.

Neither of those thing is going to bring down the PS of Rebel or Imperial lists. High PS will still be in demand to arc dodge or to deal with arc dodgers and Phantoms will still need to be dealt with. Autothrusters are going to make Soontir Fel and Carnor Jax better choices than they are currently. I haven't seen anything coming out in Wave 6 that looks like it will lessen the number of Phantoms that you'll be likely to encounter other than the existence of a new faction will cause lower the percentage of both Rebel and Imperial lists being played.

I expect that there will be a lot of VI Fett, Kath, Kavil and any other decent PS7 or higher Scum ship. I'd be surprised if the majority of Scum lists don't include at least one ship of PS 9 or 10.

I disagree. I see Scum making a push back towards "more bodies" lists, which will lower average Pilot Skill. Those cheaper, more numerous ships will make it harder to justify bidding at PS8+, especially in the fashion we've seen so far. I expect the VI ACD Phantoms to hang around a bit longer, and Han Solo has a solid ability to justify his PS cost, but Dash and Chiraneau (along with Scum Kath and Boba) show the top end of the average list, I think.

It comes down to, why would I continue using just Vet Instincts? There are better options for more damage that will work more effectively against the generic pilots I expect to see accompanying a VIP or two.

I actually do see quite a few reasons in Scum to not take a Phantom. They're going to be less popular, and as a result, quite a bit more effective in the right matchups. Those matches are going to be much more rare in tournaments, though; same way we'll see a lot less Fat Han. They both still have merits, and they won't disappear completely, but frankly the insane PS race of last year is already fading away.