Would this make low PS x-wings and e-wings more "competitive "

Astro mech

This card has a negative point cost

You cannot equip this card if your PS is 5 or higher

-2 pts

Rookies would be 19pts and

This would allow 5 x wings in 100 and would make e wings more affordable

Although gold squadrons would drop to 16pts which might be a bit too cheap

Thoughts?

One thing I would suggest is to not make a copy card. Copy cards (or clone cards) are ones that do the exact same thing as a card that is already printed.

Example

See how they are practically the same card the only difference besides the name is that one is for a hunter deck and the other is for priest deck. It may work for asymmetrical games like net runner for example the 9 for 5 cards, but X-wing is not an asymmetrical game.

Now if you take a look a Push the Limits and Experimental Interface there is enough difference between the two to set them apart. For example PTL lets you select actions from your action bar If you get a critical hit that removes the actions in your bar PTL becomes useless. EI is alot like PTL but instead it sets up for ACTION header upgrade cards and it takes a modification slot instead of an EPT slot. It changes the order in which you do your double action requiring the upgrade to be the second and not the first. Also to make them more apart EI is a unique so you can't include more than one.

Now lets take a look at your suggestion. Well for one it copies another card the only difference is that it takes up a different upgrade slot and is not restricted to a single ship type. SO we got to seperate the card a little bet better than being another one of these.

So instead of your astromech How about this instead (maybe even make it unique or not).

If equipped with a [torpedo] secondary weapon this card has a negative squad point cost (-2).

You see it does something similar to the card you copied but changes things in a much different way. That way it is not just a copy edit paste but an actual upgrade that changes the set up for the better. You can't be lazy in the designs. This allows for X-wings Y-wings E-wing to get a better set up and helps with over-costed munitions. Fixes that are well being requested. The only thing though is that it is rebel and it is not fair that they get all the cost reduction cards (unless it becomes a crafted part of the faction's meta with the other factions having equally powerful advantages). Also with the new faction coming out we can expect to see some serious changes to the meta So before we start adding more cards we need to wait for a few months before we start to fix the Rookies the Bombers and the No-named E-wing pilots.

That card would need to be about -10 pts for people to even consider using torpedoes , the idea was to make the low ps pilots get more use, restricting the upgrade to torpedoes will mean it is never used, most people don't run munitions

That card would need to be about -10 pts for people to even consider using torpedoes , the idea was to make the low ps pilots get more use, restricting the upgrade to torpedoes will mean it is never used, most people don't run munitions

The best torpedo weapon in the game for free?

Torpedoes are under-powered for their cost right now but they are not that under-powered. This is a great counter to Tie Phantoms which are still top tier meta. You need to think why most people don't run munitions. I already explained most of it but this takes one thing away the heavy point cost. Most people don't run missiles on their A-wings because of chardaan refit. To them that upgrade makes all missile weapons cost 2 points more even if it were not intended to increase the point cost of missile weapons.

Still my suggestion was not something that I said would be good I just said it needed to be different which would fit in the game better. just knocking off 2 points wont make ships (or the game) better, the A-wings got that locked down if there is a point knock off it better be for something else like a coupon or a discount.

The reason X-wings are 21 points is so you can't take 5 at 100pts, because playtesting said that was broken (MJ has determined IIRC, that 20 points was the 'correct' cost for them.

Also, it would make the Red Squadron X-wing used even less if the Rookie was dropped 2 points.

Why would you take 4 PS 4s when you could take 5 PS 2s?

The devs won't use the same fix twice they've shown that so your suggestion won't work.

More likely they'll add an action or something else inventive.

The devs won't use the same fix twice they've shown that so your suggestion won't work.

More likely they'll add an action or something else inventive.

I am under no illusions that the devs will use my idea, but I personally believe that the basic x wings and e wings are over costed and the simplest way to improve them both without breaking multiple other ships is via an astromech as I described.

You see it does something similar to the card you copied but changes things in a much different way. That way it is not just a copy edit paste but an actual upgrade that changes the set up for the better. You can't be lazy in the designs. This allows for X-wings Y-wings E-wing to get a better set up and helps with over-costed munitions. Fixes that are well being requested. The only thing though is that it is rebel and it is not fair that they get all the cost reduction cards (unless it becomes a crafted part of the faction's meta). Also with the new faction coming out we can expect to see some serious changes to the meta So before we start adding more cards we need to wait for a few months before we start to fix the Rookies the Bombers and the No-named E-wing pilots.

I like this, because it encourages ordnance use that seems to be lacking.

I don't think it would be game-breaking to have a "Chardaan Refit"-like X-wing only card that uses a torpedo slot with a -1 or -2 point cost, though. That gets the base X-wing to 20 (or 19) points but doesn't spill to other ships. Call it the "T-65R" card ... in the EU canon the "R" version was a recon bird whose proton torpedo launchers were replaced by recon sensors. (Of course, another way to do the "R" bird might be to have an Advanced Sensor-like ability that takes a torpedo slot but gives a different ability in lieu of at low/no cost.)

I think thats a bad idea because as with missiles on the a-wing it increases the cost of astromechs on x-wings making people less likely to take them and people who do take astromechs aren't benefiting from the change

I don't like Chardaan Refit, as it gives even less of reason missiles. A title or mods that gives an X-Wing 2 points off on a torpedo is a much better idea.

R9-D9 [ASTROMECH] {3} Equipping this astromech reduces the cost of all torpedoes equipped by 50% (round down).

Reducing torpedo cost opens a whole can of worms, older torpedoes are over costed but not the newer ones to the same extent so while some become reasonable others become too strong.

Hence 50% reduction -- better than a -2 that makes Flechette Torps free. Perhaps it should be round up rather than round down, though -- and I'm thinking for a torpedo-focused Astromech either the Munition Failsafe ability or an ability to either not require or not discard TL ought to be built in (at additional point cost). The idea would be to push more of the cost of making torps cost-effective into a fixed asset that gets reused (the astromech) while reducing the cost of the expendables.

My recon upgrade proposal that can also enable cheap 5-X lists:

T-65R [TORPEDO](X-wing only, Title) {-1} Your ship gains a System Upgrade icon on its upgrade bar.

Essentially the T-65R trades the ability to fire torps for a lower base cost, but then has to price back up to gain System Upgrades like Advanced Sensors. I expect this would be popular since torps cost too much, so there's benefit both for high PS pilots and for someone who just wants a cheap X-wing swarm.

I think ordinance, and torpedoes specifically, need a core rules mechanical change rather than a card fix, whether errata to existing cards or the introduction of a new card to help them out.

As for low-PS generic X- and E-wings, I like the idea of adding an astromech to help them out, but a straight-up price reduction is not the way to go. Give them something special instead, something to help their low PS be more useful, or otherwise to buff them without buffing already-great named pilots.

Training Astromech: 1 point. Cannot be equipped on any pilot with PS 4 or higher. When you take a Focus action, you may assign yourself an Evade token. [makes it somewhat more likely for your late-shooting low-PS generics to live until they get to fire back]

Training Astromech: 2 points. Cannot be equipped on any pilot with PS 4 or higher. During the Combat phase, when it is your turn to attack, you may assign yourself a Focus token if you do not already have one. [promotes taking Focus for defense, while also making it a bit more reasonable to go for Target Locks if you want to go offense heavy]

Training Astromech: 3 points. Cannot be equipped on any pilot with PS 4 or higher. When an enemy ship or movement template overlaps or your base while executing a maneuver, you may assign yourself a Focus token. [encourages deliberate blocking; could hypothetically result in quite a few Focus tokens all at once if you take a Focus action and successfully block multiple enemy ships]

T-65R [TORPEDO](X-wing only, Title) {-1} Your ship gains a System Upgrade icon on its upgrade bar.

Essentially the T-65R trades the ability to fire torps for a lower base cost, but then has to price back up to gain System Upgrades like Advanced Sensors. I expect this would be popular since torps cost too much, so there's benefit both for high PS pilots and for someone who just wants a cheap X-wing swarm.

This is amazing and I want it to be a thing immediately.

Training Astromech: 1 point. Cannot be equipped on any pilot with PS 4 or higher. When you take a Focus action, you may assign yourself an Evade token. [makes it somewhat more likely for your late-shooting low-PS generics to live until they get to fire back]

Training Astromech: 2 points. Cannot be equipped on any pilot with PS 4 or higher. During the Combat phase, when it is your turn to attack, you may assign yourself a Focus token if you do not already have one. [promotes taking Focus for defense, while also making it a bit more reasonable to go for Target Locks if you want to go offense heavy]

Training Astromech: 3 points. Cannot be equipped on any pilot with PS 4 or higher. When an enemy ship or movement template overlaps or your base while executing a maneuver, you may assign yourself a Focus token. [encourages deliberate blocking; could hypothetically result in quite a few Focus tokens all at once if you take a Focus action and successfully block multiple enemy ships]

These are all great for Rookies, I'd love to see two of each in an X-Wing Aces pack!

I really like the idea of using astromechs to make torpedoes better. You would need to do something to help missiles and imperial torpedo users, but this could work.

You could reduce the cost of torpedoes, add attack die, bypass shields, add 1 hit result, just about anything.

T-65R [TORPEDO](X-wing only, Title) {-1} Your ship gains a System Upgrade icon on its upgrade bar.

Essentially the T-65R trades the ability to fire torps for a lower base cost, but then has to price back up to gain System Upgrades like Advanced Sensors. I expect this would be popular since torps cost too much, so there's benefit both for high PS pilots and for someone who just wants a cheap X-wing swarm.

This is amazing and I want it to be a thing immediately.

If you like that you may like my other "Covert Operations" ideas, like this one:

Deep Recon [MISSILE] (A-wing only) {4} You gain the Cloak action on your action bar. Your ship may equip Modifications previously restricted to TIE-Phantom only.

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Agree with the above concept, though -- since Astromechs are unique to Rebels (for the moment, anyway) they would seem to be a good way to introduce both fixes to ordnance as well as a way to boost X-wings and Y-wings some.

R9-D9 [ASTROMECH] {3} Equipping this astromech reduces the cost of all torpedoes equipped by 50% (round down).

are there any torpedoes that cost little enough to make this worth it on an x-wing o.0 or any ship for that matter?

are there any torpedoes that cost little enough to make this worth it on an x-wing o.0 or any ship for that matter?

Actually, as I think about it it's a slight benefit for Y-wings with their two torpedo slots, but needs a price reduction to balance -- as priced at 3 it actually costs more for a proton torpedo than a naked torpedo!

Revised:

R9-D7 [ASTROMECH] {1} Equipping this astromech reduces the cost of all torpedoes equipped by 50% (round up).

R9-D8 [ASTROMECH] {2} Equipping this astromech reduces the cost of all torpedoes equipped by 50% (round up). If an attack with a torpedo misses, the torpedo card is not discarded.

R9-D9 [ASTROMECH] {4} Equipping this astromech reduces the cost of all torpedoes equipped by 50% (round up). You may engage targets outside of your primary arc with torpedoes. If an attack with a torpedo misses, the torpedo card is not discarded.

R9-D9 [ASTROMECH] {3} Equipping this astromech reduces the cost of all torpedoes equipped by 50% (round down).

I would do just a 1 upgrade reduction not an all around thing. Y-wings are already getting power boosted with the Wave 6 upgrades. It is the E-wings and X-wings that are in line for a tune up.

Reducing torpedo cost opens a whole can of worms, older torpedoes are over costed but not the newer ones to the same extent so while some become reasonable others become too strong.

Not necessarily. The newer munitions cards seem to be more of a gimmick than a power boost (with the exception of proton rockets) The best Torpedo weapon right now is a newer one with the flechette torpedoes with the ability to cause stress if it hits or not. 2nd place would be the classic proton torpedo as it has a good firepower and a built in dice modifier to make it more successful when hitting.

The best missile secondary weapon (so Chardaan refit is excluded from this category) is arguably the proton rocket. Not because it is super powerful (it is still a range 1 weapon) but because it is more likely to hit and the development team has better crafted a secondary weapon that can provide a boost with out it being available to all missile carriers and have the same effect. What I would consider the 2nd best missile weapon would be plain old concussion missiles because of the guaranteed hit if you can get focus on the turn you fire them. The newer munitions are more of a gimmick with the splash damage, the attack twice or the double ion tokens to ionize large ships in one turn.

Ordnance is in a precarious spot right now. The classic ones while one of the best of its type will need a helping hand. Newer ones will need to be good but in order to prevent gross imbalance and totally off set previous versions will need some situation requirements like high agility or can only be used at certain ranges so it boost some ships but not across the board where this upgrade is a MUST HAVE if you want to remain competitive. The meta while some what predictable can be made all the worst if munitions are not upgraded carefully. Can you imagine a meta game where it all depends on who can get the first hit with a 1 attack weapon? I'd rather not!

Doing some more thinking, I've come up with a whole series of weapon-related R9 astromech droids:

R9 Astromech - When a missle or torpedo says you must discard a Blue Target Lock, you may use it to reroll ALL attack dice instead.

This way, it's not as good as a regular TL, but at least you still get something for having the **** thing other than permission to fire off a one shot attack that will likely miss anyway.

R9 Astromech - When a missle or torpedo says you must discard a Blue Target Lock, you may use it to reroll ALL attack dice instead.

This way, it's not as good as a regular TL, but at least you still get something for having the **** thing other than permission to fire off a one shot attack that will likely miss anyway.

R9s are a highly advanced Astromech, with increased self protection routines (according to Wookieepedia, to the point where they'd hide things from their owners to prevent memory wipes). They were designed to fly with highly advanced ships.

Given that the goal of this thread is to promote low-PS generics, the R9 series doesn't seem like the right droid to run with, thematically speaking.

That said, if you want to shift to goal from promoting low PS generics to promoting Ordinance, then the R9 is probably a decent choice.

R9 - 2 points. When you attack with a weapon that requires you to spend your Target Lock, you may immediately assign yourself a Focus token.

R9-P9 - 3 points. When you attack with a secondary weapon, you may receive one Stress to reroll as many dice as you wish.

R9-T7 - 1 point. Action: Cancel one enemy Target Lock on a friendly ship within Range 1-2.