So, I've just started a new group, and what makes it wonderful is that while everyone has played the dawn of war games and knows the basics of the lore, one of the players was completely in the dark about how incredibly facist the imperium is. The party has convinced him NOT to be a full blown renegade, but it was a close run thing, and he's still playing a grey area character who'll have a lot of angry disapproving eyes on him any time he journeys back into imperium space.

Now, he finds everything about the imperium's structure absolutely distasteful, and he plays a character to reflect that. I plan to take full advantage of this. He has no idea that the emperor's original image of the imperium was COMPLETELY perverted into the imperial creed.

So my question for you guys is, any ideas on how to introduce an intact, original copy of the Imperial Truth into the Koronus Expanse? Or even the Calixis Sector? Did the original crusade come this far and then it fell into darkness during the Horus Heresy? (seems likely given it's proximity to Terra), maybe onboard an archeotech space hulk? I'm kinda trying to figure out the best way to do this so I can watch the player explode.

I'd say a space hulk that dates back to the original Crusade. Doesn't have to be a BIG, genestealer filled one, just a junk ship that pops out of the warp.

Maybe have it include one of these:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/127227-houserule-ship-component-idea/?p=1359692

And have it be an actual component that introduces him to it!

I'd say a space hulk that dates back to the original Crusade. Doesn't have to be a BIG, genestealer filled one, just a junk ship that pops out of the warp.

Maybe have it include one of these:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/127227-houserule-ship-component-idea/?p=1359692

And have it be an actual component that introduces him to it!

Think I'll just have it with a librarium... something that broken is... no. I know my players too well to give them that.

I also wouldn't give him the whole thing - just a taste; at least at first. I actually have a character for whom this is part of their background - they have a single audiorecording on a permawax cylinder. It's the cut 'flak' from before one of the Emperor's recorded speeches that includes him expressing his concern to malicor about the purging of Lorgar faith in his secular empire.

Its enough to let the character know, without being able to really prove anything.

I also wouldn't give him the whole thing - just a taste; at least at first. I actually have a character for whom this is part of their background - they have a single audiorecording on a permawax cylinder. It's the cut 'flak' from before one of the Emperor's recorded speeches that includes him expressing his concern to malicor about the purging of Lorgar faith in his secular empire.

Its enough to let the character know, without being able to really prove anything.

oooh... I like this... further, if it's a 2nd hand account of one of the emperor's speeches... then suddenly, it is INCREDIBLY valuable. And, worse, it's highly heretical while being incredibly valuable. The Eclisharchy will want it, because EMPEROR. The Inquisition will want it because EMPEROR DENOUCING RELIGION AND OUR ENTIRE ORDER WAS FOUNDED ON THE BASIS OF PREVENTING THIS FROM BEING KNOWN! and all kinds of fun.

I think I'll need him to also find the original text by Logar eventually... so he reads the parallels between one of the demonic figures in the Imperium's religion, and the realization they PENNED most of the basic foundational materials of the imperial creed.

I'd say a space hulk that dates back to the original Crusade. Doesn't have to be a BIG, genestealer filled one, just a junk ship that pops out of the warp.

Maybe have it include one of these:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/127227-houserule-ship-component-idea/?p=1359692

And have it be an actual component that introduces him to it!

Think I'll just have it with a librarium... something that broken is... no. I know my players too well to give them that.

What specifically would they break with it? It just gives them minor skill bonuses, for the most part. And an excuse to be able to make small scale items, and use trade skills they probably don't have.

I'd say a space hulk that dates back to the original Crusade. Doesn't have to be a BIG, genestealer filled one, just a junk ship that pops out of the warp.

Maybe have it include one of these:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/127227-houserule-ship-component-idea/?p=1359692

And have it be an actual component that introduces him to it!

Think I'll just have it with a librarium... something that broken is... no. I know my players too well to give them that.

What specifically would they break with it? It just gives them minor skill bonuses, for the most part. And an excuse to be able to make small scale items, and use trade skills they probably don't have.

I have no idea. I just know that every time I've given them something with that much broad application, they end up either finding a way to break it as written, or sneakily justify why it should work in a broken way for whatever situation in question they want... I already got a guy who has found a way to justify setting up a spy network on any given planet they reach because I gave him something like this in the past... never again.

Tell me about this spy network creating item they got please.

also remember its the GM's job to fix what the players break before they break it. if you dont like how theyre using something, dont let them

I'm curious about this item, too. Specifically I'm curious if the item was actually all that broken or if you just fell prey to my old nemesis, the clever-sounding argument.

Just remember. It is there so they have a place to make pharmaceuticals / weapons / a few products / a few implants / some servitors / maybe a very very small one off vehicle or two, and to get +10 on a few skills. It's NOT there to do more; it is intended to specifically, generally, do LESS in the specialty than the components it replaces, per component, except POSSIBLY the Librarium:

Librarium Vault

Crew Reclamation Facility

Manufactorum

Medicae Deck

Laboratorium

Pharmacia

Xenos Librarium (though really, why a xenos librarium would give you forbidden lore for forbidden IMPERIAL technological lore, I don't know...)

With the idea that it does a little bit of most of those components, in a limited but useful way. Just remember to say, "No, it is not big enough for you to make a manufacturing run of a thousand Hellguns. You can maybe make like twenty in that time."

I'm curious about this item, too. Specifically I'm curious if the item was actually all that broken or if you just fell prey to my old nemesis, the clever-sounding argument.

it was clever sounding argument. It was basically something from the dark age of technology which we refered too OOCly as "The Second Foundation Primer". It gave massive bonuses towards interaction checks of any sort provided they were made to effect LARGE numbers of people.

Seneschal managed to argue his way into using it to subliminally message people into doing various things that allowed him to collect tons of knowledge off of them. Some of them would just jot down a note on something interesting they saw related to said subliminal messaging, and then drop it off at a dead drop his trusted subordinates would then collect, then feed into a modified cogitator (the sort that goes through vast amounts of financial data) to sort relevant and irrelevant information.

edit: Should mention, I did require a significantly large numbers of degrees of success... but because of said large bonus, various social bonuses said seneschal already had, plus skill boosts, and all that jazz... he made it.

Just remember. It is there so they have a place to make pharmaceuticals / weapons / a few products / a few implants / some servitors / maybe a very very small one off vehicle or two, and to get +10 on a few skills. It's NOT there to do more; it is intended to specifically, generally, do LESS in the specialty than the components it replaces, per component, except POSSIBLY the Librarium:

Librarium Vault

Crew Reclamation Facility

Manufactorum

Medicae Deck

Laboratorium

Pharmacia

Xenos Librarium (though really, why a xenos librarium would give you forbidden lore for forbidden IMPERIAL technological lore, I don't know...)

With the idea that it does a little bit of most of those components, in a limited but useful way. Just remember to say, "No, it is not big enough for you to make a manufacturing run of a thousand Hellguns. You can maybe make like twenty in that time."

see, still. They can just do that in the enginarium with all of it's various apperatuses meant to keep the ship running... without a bonus for the action. And without any chance of the vile clever argument being applied.