Just wondering what the board thinks on this topic. We had a pretty long discussion about this at the store today.

Each has their uses in different area's of the game. To me Hull upgrade always wins because it's a definite and doesn't go away after one hit. But perhaps on an Agility 3 ship, stealth device is better?

What does everyone think?

Stealth Device or Hull Upgrade?

I think you are right.

Green dice are fickle and hull is guaranteed. But some ships it may be better on, once autothrusters are released I think we will see Soontir fel with Stealth Device and autothrusters.

It is my understanding that Hull Upgrade is more consistent while Stealth has more potential if you have lucky dice.

It is an interesting comparison, as your Stealth Device will do better if you already have good agility, but the Hull Upgrade also improves as your agility goes up.

If you have 1 or fewer native agility, Hull is superior.

If you have 2-3 native agility, it is difficult to say, and depends largely on the actions and dial the ship in question possess, and what fleet you're flying against.

If you have 4 or more native agility, Hull is superior.

The reason I bring this up. Is I won a small tournament today with my two defender and Doom shuttle. Both of my defenders have stealth device. ( I faced several phantom lists and 1 phat han look a like too), It was knocked off quite easily in many of my games, so I feel I wasted points on it.

I have always gone hull upgrade on a 2 or less agility, but now I'm wondering if I should use hull upgrade all the time and just drop the stealth devices, entirely.

The reason I bring this up. Is I won a small tournament today with my two defender and Doom shuttle. Both of my defenders have stealth device. ( I faced several phantom lists and 1 phat han look a like too), It was knocked off quite easily in many of my games, so I feel I wasted points on it.

I have always gone hull upgrade on a 2 or less agility, but now I'm wondering if I should use hull upgrade all the time and just drop the stealth devices, entirely.

For my points, Hull Upgrade is always the choice on ships with 0-2 Agility. On 3 Agility, Stealth Device is more competitive, but it's a double-edged sword. If your opponent doesn't have a counter, or if you can take out your opponent's counter(s) early, Stealth Device can be extraordinarily valuable. But if you run into something that's tuned to hit elusive targets--pretty much anything with 4 dice, a Gunner, a pilot ability like Ten Numb's, etc.--then you're probably better off with a Hull Upgrade.

That's what I was thinking. It appears with the current meta that the 4 attack from a phantom and 3 attack from Han with gunner, it's just better to take Hull Upgrade. Also, I also take tactical jammer on the shuttle, to be an obstacle, so that coupled with Stealth was pretty nice, but overall it lasted about one turn and then they shot my stealth off.

I think Stealth device is pretty much shut down with the current meta.

I pretty much only put stealth device on PtL interceptors. The extra green die with a focus and an evade tends to stop more than 1 hit as opposed to hull upgrade's guaranteed 1 hit stopped.

It's going to get even better with auto-thrusters

The only occasion where I might prefer Stealth Device over Hull Upgrade is with Soontir Fell where I can stack 2 focus and 1 evade for defense, plus autothruster soon enough.

Other than that, I prefer the constant reliability of the Hull Upgrade; It saved Howlrunner and so many Interceptors from a horrible death while Stealth Device failed so many time from the first shot coming.

The one thing Stealth device has is when going against new players, the added dice tend to discourage them from shooting at it and pick another target.

I tend to run both hull and shield on my interceptors, so that's what I think of stealth:)

Yeah! I'm changing to Hull upgrade. Although it was fun when Han first attacked me at range 3 through my shuttle, and I had 3 agility, +1 for R3, 1+ for Shuttle, +1 for Stealth Device. I rolled 6 defense dice, with a focus. (I got 5 evades)

But 5 dice would have been enough too.

I've seen SD fail way more often than its worked I've watched tie interceptors at range three roll five dice and get five blanks twice in the same shooting phase, hull upgrades a sure thing.

The thing is stealth device is better with agility 3, specifically on ships with low HP. With interceptors is great when turtling, you have 3 hull, so the stealth device can be a real difference and usually saves a few hits before you take your first damage.

Nevertheless, you are talking about a shuttle, and shuttle should never *ever* have stealth device, since it will be blown after the first attack against you.

Howlrunner, or interceptors. That's my opinion.

EDIT: Scyk interceptors, from Scum, also Starviper, A-wing... they make a good use of stealth device. Remember it doesn't get shut down if not hit by an attack, so it keeps working after hitting asteroids, or area effects, or mines. You will see a LOT of royal guards with Autothrusters and Stealth devices soon. Screw you, turrets.

No not the shuttle, both of my defenders. The shuttle has tactical jammer and enhanced scopes, so it counts as a obstacle for my defenders to hide behind and gain a defense bonus.

On something with 3 agility, I'd take the stealth device. Otherwise, Hull

I'd say the question was harder when it was "What's Better, the Shield Upgrade or Stealth Device?" When you throw the Hull Upgrade into the mix it can easily become the general winner. Of course just because Hull is generally better doesn't mean there aren't times when the Stealth Device shouldn't get the nod.

Back when the meta was full of 2 attack TIE Fighters the Stealth Device on high Agility ships probably was the better choice. The thing is that is no longer the meta and when you know you're going to get hit that Hull will always be good for you while the Stealth Device may not even provide you with any protection.

My answer: it depends on which ship / pilot.

A ship needs a minimum of 3 agility to make stealth device worth it, but some pilots can make it work even better. The 4th agility dice only works well if you can combine it with other tokens. So for example:

Soontir with push the limit: I'll take a hull. The reason for this is simple; I can pilot Soontir really, really well and usually, I'm not in the firing arc of many people (and most of the time, I'll still have a focus and evade, so I'll be ok). On the offchance of a royal screwup, however, usually in the form of a bump, a hull upgrade will save me more often than not.

Turr with veteran instinct: I'll take a stealth device. My reason is more convoluted with him. I know how to arc dodge very well with him (much like Soontir), but I can't turtle with a focus/evade combo. I know how to use his ability to stay at range 3, however, and rolling 5 evade dice with a focus in bank is usually enough to keep him safe.

This might change when autothruster shows up

The math I remember was something like: on a 3 agility ship, the stealth device tends to stop 1 hit- same as a hull upgrade. And they're both 3 points.

Now, with autothrusters, that stealth device will suddenly be a very different, and much more useful, item. A 4th die (while flanking a turret) gives a lot more potential for a blank- which will turn right into an evade result.

I tend to prefer hull upgrades on most ships, because I prefer the consistency over the hope. But when I'm just having fun, stealth device.

Agility 2 or less, get the hull. 3+ stealth device. Also stealth device helps with the proton rockets, so I would think about it on a bomber.

Unless you're saving your actions for defense, the hull on average is better.

Unless you're saving your actions for defense, the hull on average is better.

I highly recommend saving your actions for defense. The red dice are typically good enough on their own.

Unless you're saving your actions for defense, the hull on average is better.

I highly recommend saving your actions for defense. The red dice are typically good enough on their own.

That's great if you know which ships of yours will be attacked and which ones won't.

Unless you're saving your actions for defense, the hull on average is better.

I highly recommend saving your actions for defense. The red dice are typically good enough on their own.

That's great if you know which ships of yours will be attacked and which ones won't.

What list do you run where this is not something you can easily see in the moment?

LOL! This is funny that this is a topic tonight because it was not even 10 minutes ago I was building a list using the Star Viper and I got stuck on the same thing....the Star Viper is an agility3 ship and with stealth pushing it up to agility 4 ...buuuuuuut what about some extra hull? I threw on stealth for extra agility but might change it.....usually my green dice love me and I have TIE ships avoiding attacks left and right....but this is a new beast...what if my dice dont want to love the scum and villany stuff lol. I should go hull anyways.

Unless you're saving your actions for defense, the hull on average is better.

I highly recommend saving your actions for defense. The red dice are typically good enough on their own.

That's great if you know which ships of yours will be attacked and which ones won't.

What list do you run where this is not something you can easily see in the moment?