I have no interrest in tournaments, building the best squadron or anything. I have seen a lot of expertise here on these boards and hope some of you guys can help me.

I simply want to build a balanced game that I can use to play with friends. This means I want ships for both sides with decent customization options so it's also fun to build your squadron and you feel like you can ezperiment a bit. I don't want any ships that are very powerful or perhaps over powered. I also don't care to have every ship, I like simple Ties and X-wings. I would like the rebel to have some more aigle weaker ships like the Ties, and for the imps to have ships with shields.

Here are the ships I have now:

4 tie fighters

1 Tie Advanced

1 Y-wing

2 X-wings

1 Slave 1

1 Falcon

Base game ships included in the list above.

I just want to build a set that lets two players have some fun even if you want to build a 150 point squadron. In terms of number of different ships, less is more for me. Three imperial fighters, three rebel fighters and one or two larger ships for each seems like a good mix for me. With the option of being able to go all out cheap fighters if you want (for 100 points at least). I have been pondering if the tie interceptor and the A-wing could be the last pair of fighters. I don't think the slave and falcon are balanced so perhaps there are other options. The larger ships can very well be four different ships, but for the fighters I'd like to keep it at three types per side.

Hope you can help me here

What the hell is wrong with the lack of experimentation or the game balance?

What the hell is wrong with the lack of experimentation or the game balance?

Boy that response was helpful...

OP there is no OP ship in this game...regardless how much some in here want to complain.

That said you are off to a good start. The falcon, by itself, isn't that bad...it's 3po that gets everyone riled up. The slave 1 generic is actually quite good. The interceptor and a wing would be good calls bit if you are looking at those I would recommend both aces packs. You will get 2 ints along with a bwing and awing...the cards contained in those sets will make your ints more fun to fly and your awing more palpable points wise. It will also give you a single bwing giving you more ship options.

To be a little more diplomatic than the second post:

If you are just playing casually, every ship in the game is fine and balanced and fun when used in a game with friends. These message boards can be deceiving because many threads are based on overstatements and hyperbole about the current meta. The truth is that unless you are playing at regional or worlds tournaments, the only meta that matters is your local meta (i.e. you and your friends and maybe a few folks at the local game store).

I've watched a few 'metas' come and go and have not seen any of them really dominate my local meta (and I do play in a local tournament every once in a while). Sometimes when I look at the these threads I ask myself "Are these people playing the same game as me? I haven't seen any of the things be OP or game breaking."

That being said, the TIE advanced is getting a needed fix. If you want to make a game with more list variety, browse one of the many threads about fixing pre-Imperial Aces ordinance for house rule ideas until an official tweak comes out to make them more viable.

Oh ok, from reading the boards and being inexperienced myself I concluded some balance issues were present, but glad to hear it's not a real issue.

Are the tie advanced broken somehow?

Can I find a summary of points costs for the different things in the expansion somewhere perhaps? That would help me a lot of balance isn't a bit issue.

No actually it is pretty balanced unless you really want to play competitive. There are of course a few lists and ships that are somewhat more competitive and/or just are very good against stuff other people tend to play at tournaments. But even then you need to also play these list perfectly to get all their advantages to bear and luck still plays a huge role.

If you play a friendly game and just pick ships and equipment based on what you like and know, i would say things will be very balanced.

The Advanced is widely agreed to cost some 4 squad points too much. But then i always found it to be very beginner friendly because it is tanky, and Vader is a good choice even in an Advanced.

The ship will however be buffed quite a bit when the new huge ship for the Empire comes out along with an alternate paint scheme Advanced, new pilots and a title that gives it a system upgrade slot for free and also making the systems upgrade you take 4 points cheaper, essentially free except you take the new targeting computer that also comes out at the same time and costs 5 (1 point for the Advanced)

I've found that new players really enjoy the Coran E-wing build with Shield Upgrade (comes with your YT-1300), R2-D2 (core set), Advanced Sensors (included with the E-wing), and an EPT like Marksmanship (core set). Fill this in with X-wings to taste, either generics or more elite pilots, as points allow.

If you want to include an imperial ship with Shields, I've been really liking the Defender. The Advanced just lacks punch, and the Defender is a good center piece to a list. Roll with Rexler, Predator (comes with the Defender), HLC (included with your Firespray), and maybe a Shield or Engine upgrade (both with you YT-1300). Fill in with TIEs, probably a Howlrunner mini-swarm, but you can obviously build whatever you want within the available points.

For casual, just stay away from the Phantom. It has a high chance of ruining you opponents day, especially the first cpl times you run into it. Not that it is OP, i just has a high learning curve to deal with it. Everything else is fine.

Here is your balanced game.

and here are the problems with a perfectly balanced game.

When I started out with friends I found these two basic squad archetypes to be well balanced against each other:

Falcon with 2 fighters (X, Y, or B)

Slave 1 with 4-5 Ties

from there you can experiment with pilots and upgrades.

As for the Tie Advanced, its very durable, with a weak attack, and a high cost, which makes it undesirable in a competitive setting. In casual games Vader with daredevil or engine upgrade can be really fun.

Also, your whole collection is from wave 1 & 2 so a lot of the current talk on these forums regarding balance & competitive list building doesn't really apply, the meta has shifted drastically since wave 2, from lots of low PS generics with minimal upgrades, to high PS named pilots with lots of upgrades.

If you want to try Missiles & Torpedoes the only pilots in your collection worth equipping them on are Vader, Horton, and Krassis, otherwise don't waste the points.

Can I find a summary of points costs for the different things in the expansion somewhere perhaps? That would help me a lot of balance isn't a bit issue.

Http://xwing-builder.co.uk/build

I have to echo everybody else-this game has clearly been well play tested and is in general very well balanced, any issues are minor and the domain of people playing it more seriously like researching the current cutting edge metas and how to combat them. If you posted a "this ship/load out combo is too good & nothing can defeat it" post you'd have a dozen ways to combat it posted within the hour. All ships are an ideal solution for one problem or another and its learning these solutions that is half the fun.

P.s. If you want an easy well balanced I'd just run lists of the lowest level generics you can for each ship-makes for a real fun game....

Hi Gallows,

I use Fab's squadron generator a lot. It let's me use ships and combo's that don't usually see a lot of play, just check off your expansions, put in your points, and hit the Random button.

By the way, first try for 150 points for your expansion list (assuming the x-wings and ties are from two core sets) it produced this beautiful battle scenario:

Rebels

Horton Salm [R2D2, Proton Torpedoes, Ion Cannon Turret]

Han Solo [Homing Missiles, Engine Upgrade, Falcon Title]

Red Squadron [Proton Torpedoes, R2 Astromech]

Biggs [R5-D8]

Imps

Boba Fett [squad Leader, Proton Torpedoes, Assault Missiles, Prox Mine, HLC, Weapons Engineer, Engine Upgrade, Slave I]

Black Squadron [Determination, Stealth Device]

Dark Curse [shield Upgrade]

Mauler Mithel [Draw their Fire, Shield Upgrade]

Academy Pilot [stealth Device]

Talk about a fun game, you have a very mobile Falcon and Firespray on the board. The Firespray has enough firepower to take that Falcon down, with the target locks to use it's ordnance, and the Mines to punish anybody who wants to chase it down.

You've got really slippery TIEs, Horton with a Turret, and Biggs to keep his buddies alive (watch for Boba's assault missiles though ).

You can pick a couple modes for the generator, you can emphasize ships, upgrade cards, optimize, etc.

I emphasized ships, randomized again with your list, and Luke, Chewie, and the Dark Lord of the Sith all made an appearance

http://fabpsb.free.fr/gindex.php?lng=en

Cheers for all the help and awesome advice

And MarineAlver, thanks for showing off your forum samurai skills. I'm not talking about a balanced game in terms of rules and ship power. But as everyone else seemed to understand I just would like to build a collection that feels like a complete game with fun options for both sides, without having too many different ship.

How about the Tie defender? Is that a viable imperial option for a sturdier imp ship comparable to an X-wing in point cost?

Imps

Boba Fett [squad Leader, Proton Torpedoes, Assault Missiles, Prox Mine, HLC, Weapons Engineer, Engine Upgrade, Slave I]

I strongly disagree with this. Tricking out the slave 1 always seems like an excellent idea, until your opponent sees how many points you have sitting in it. Then you get to watch as your hopes and dreams explode. Boba just never lives that long, especially in a >100 pt game.

If you're just playing for fun, you can always proxy in the tie adv fix. It's actually quite good.

In the 150 point range, for the imperials, you'll want to keep in mind that arc dodging gets very very difficult with 50% more ships out there. Thus I wouldn't invest too much into any dancers, like phantoms or high end interceptors. Defenders are actually quite nice, just be careful not to go overboard with upgrades. They still go boom like everything else, and they start at 30 points.

Bombers are quite sturdy too, and fairly cheap. You could always go shuttle. Cheap, 10 hits, and can be quite deadly.

Oh, those tie advanced cards are nice. As I read them it's a free upgrade right? What expansion are they in?

Oh, those tie advanced cards are nice. As I read them it's a free upgrade right? What expansion are they in?

They'll be in the upcoming Raider epic ship. Which makes it better to proxy them if you play exclusively casually and don't plan to play in tournaments or epic games.

Concerning Chess as "perfectly balanced" game - its win ratio is somewhere between 52% and 56% for white. Android:Netrunner had a much better balance for a while.

Oh ok. I'll just add them as a house rule then to tie advanced. The total cost for both is 1point, but just giving them for free won't unbalance anything will it?

Have looked at all expansions and written up a list of ships I hope will make a complete game I can pull out and have fun with. I think I'll just stick to 100 points games as a baseline - hadn't considered the play area. I'll get the ships on the list by purchasing an extra base set, which seems like a good idea, plus both aces sets. The rest is from individual packs.

Imperial ship collection

Firespray

6 Tie Fighters

2 Tie Advanced

4 Tie Interceptors

2 Tie Bombers

2 Tie Defenders

Rebel ship collection

Falcon

3 X-wings

1 Y-wing

4 A-wings

1 B-wing

1 E-wing

6 Z-95 Headhunters

Something along those lines. I don't want more types of ships, but uncertain if the numbers of each type above are ok. I don't know for example if a rebel will ever consider using 6x headhunters. I don't want more than 6 tie fighters, so people don't just field 8 of those.

Unless you're an experienced player, the game as it stands is balanced.

Even the most mathematically balanced squadron lists won't matter because everyone plays differently. And if you're all beginners it's definitely not going to make a difference.

And if you want absolute balance than run the same list on both sides.

I'm not refering to, debating, disputing or in any way talking about the balance of the game.... I should have known using such a word on a forum was a bad idea.

I want a complete game, where it feels like both sides have about the same quantity and quality of options. The balance I am talking about is in terms of building a nice game that feels complete. Have no interrest in huge ships or more large ships, so it's not complete in the sense of collecting everything either.

For a balanced game, never ever play with a Phantom

Buy Imperial Aces and a TIE Bomber for fun matches with ordnance and dancing Interceptors.

Buy Imperial Aces and a TIE Bomber for fun matches with ordnance and dancing Interceptors.

How would you run that combination of ships?

I'm in a very similar scenario as the OP, and haven't really considered TIE Bombers until this thread.

Buy Imperial Aces and a TIE Bomber for fun matches with ordnance and dancing Interceptors.

How would you run that combination of ships?

I'm in a very similar scenario as the OP, and haven't really considered TIE Bombers until this thread.

I love the Bomber but with only 1 you'd probably want to use Jonus with a pair of HLC Defenders, or Rhymer loaded with 2-3 ordnance and a mini swarm of Ties. A single Ordnance bomber will take too much fire if it's flying with a pair of dodgey Intercepters, that make the bomber the easy target.

The most survivable Imperial squad I ever used was a Bounty Hunter and 4 naked bombers, thats 34 health to eat through. I never lost a game against a rebel list with that squad, but it has trouble with A-wings, and Tie Swarms and Interceptors are a serious struggle for it.

My list would probably look something like this.

Imperial

1 Firespray

1 Shuttle

6 Tie Fighters (at least 1 regular)

2 Tie Advanced

4 Tie Interceptors (at least 1 regular and 2 from aces)

2 Tie Bomers

2 Tie Defenders

Rebel ship collection

Falcon

Hwk

3 X-wings (at least 1 regular)

2 Y-wing (if you will expand to S&V get 1 rebel and 1 scum)

2 A-wings (1 regular and 1 aces)

2 B-wing (1 regular and 1 aces)

1 E-wing

3 Z-95 Headhunters (if you will expand to S&V get 1-2 rebel and 2 scum)

Looks somewhat similar to my list. The shuttle and hwk are support ships right?

Perhaps two b/y wings are better than just one.

The only difference on my list is only 1 B/Y wing and 6 Z-95. I think 2 B/Y and only 4 Z-95 is better

And then the shuttle/hwk - will have to look into the options in those expansions.

Cheers