I must be the only person who really likes this Balon. Yes, I realize that his usefulness is conditional upon your opponent (or you) having Shadows cards in their decks. But character steal is one of the strongest effects in the game. And didn't someone mention that he could put your own stuff into shadows when they are discarded,? This is a decent secondary effect. Heck, once Balon is in play, mill your own deck to get to the Shadows cards you really want, then use neutral Barristan Selmy so you don't deck yourself.

Well, I'm a Greyjoy player myself, and I think you're underrating this Balon. Most decks aren't going to run zero shadow cards, probably going to be at lest 3 per deck by the end of KLE, so he's only going to get better. And it's hard not to include some mill in a Greyjoy deck; even if it's not a useful mechanic and even if there is no win mechanic involved, milling tends to totally frustrate your opponent. People just hate losing cards off the top of their decks and IF you get to steal one of those cards, all the better. Everybody complains about Baratheon's perma-steal, which is only one round and only against 2 houses (granted, one unplayable house), this Balon could be perma-steal against any house. Plus, I've played with the expansion Balon before, he's not terribly interesting and he got a bit nerfed to boot. I just think Lannister is not the be all end all house that everyone thinks they are. I reckon my Targ deck could stand up to most lannister decks most of the time (and baratheon decks too, MWNK and other perma steal be damned =P).

Dobbler said:

man that requires a lot of extra stuff to make one card work for you (which i could see if it said claim a power every time it happens)....

The point that i believe Finite is making is that here is Balon Greyjoy the patriarch of his house...and well he needs a walker to be a good card. Then you look at Cersei, and yeah she isn't the best card for all decks, but if your like me and you already have a Lanni shadows deck...you slot her right in there (~as opposed to sloting stuff into her....). same for the Gold cloaks and the event (2 gold might suck [arguable], but not when it gives me +2 str and [renown, deadly, no attachemnts, or immune to events] on a key character).

I'm not disapointed in the targ and martell stuff, its just that it is all weak support stuff. Lanni gets a 4 str duel icon support card, and targ and martell get 1 str mono cons as their support.

and bara got snoozed on in this CP, but i think it was thier turn.

Stark is solid, it might advance a new deck (yay!) but i'm still unsure of them and winter (they are a costly house right now, in my experience).

Well, in a Greyjoy deck that's not worried about unopposed challenges, he's quite good. Honestly, the proliferation of Kings that we are promised makes me wary of the King Balon, anyhow. It seems to me that it will be quite likely he'll just be a 4 for 3 bicon with Renown and no discernable ability, which makes him less than the Balon Shadowthief we get here. Does make me think that Son of a King could be an especially useful card for Baratheon decks, though.

fox, i thik you just made the point better then we could.

Your settling for a main character being maybe usable here and there. Cersie is a queen, yet you don't have to worry about her being 'turned off'. Robert is a 4 for 3 bicon who is usable in any deck you put him in (with no other help). Jaime is a 4 for 3 bicon who is usable in any deck you put him (without any other support). Eddard is a 4 for 3 bicon who is usable in any deck you put him in (without any support). Where is Greyjoys 4 for 3 bicon who is usable in any deck you put in him without any support? might it be in the kings of sea...maybe, but its not balon.

Finte would go on and point out that while there are examples of ease cards for a few houses, Lanni by far has the most and this chapter pack is just another example of them getting cards that work well in a deck and add a lot to it (sure you might have to focus on a theme, but its themes lanni already wants and benefits by focusing on).

Greyjoy is going to get a Victarion, an Asha, a Clefjaw, a Crow's Eye...these are not likely going to be craptastic cards. My guess is that this Balon will be useable most of the time. There's always been a proliferation of mill effects that are worth using. And you're bound to knock off a shadows card eventually. I don't see him being this worthless piece of cardboard that seems to be the concensus. I don't think he's particularly any worse than say Eddard Stark, just different. It's an effect we've not seen before in Greyjoy, which is something I like. Makes me think my mill could have some teeth with Balon plundering away cards from the seas, it's nedly-ish.

But I don't think there is a favoritism shown towards Lannister. I don't think they actually have more good cards than the other houses, not while I'm looking through my stack of Baratheon and Targ cards right now, at least; maybe Stark is really bad and I wasn't aware... All of Lannister's cards have always done stuff like these ones are doing now. The only really repeatable draw lannister has is GTM (and i guess Qyburn's Informers, though I likely wouldn't use them). Targ has Xaro's Home for repeatable draw, and Baratheon and Stark both have some draw answers, perhaps not as reliable, but they're there (Baratheon's epic battle event is very cool I think).The gold lannister has is all character driven as well and any deck worth it's weight in salt can handle those weenie characters easily enough (Tywin is a bit of a beast, though).

The only thing I can think of that people must hate about Lannister is their kneeling effects and a couple of really good events (A Lannister Pays His Debts and I'm You Writ Small, maybe Insidious Ways (card advantage FTW)). Maybe a Paper Shield reprint is in order, I dunno, could be in the "usable by every house" category for Kings of the Sea. Seems to me, though, that those are things Lannister has always had and always will have, but I don't recall them always being the best house out there. I do recall a lot of complaining about the supposed top house of the time often enough though. "Targ doesn't need more burn," "Stark doesn't need more kill," "Lannister doesn't need more anything, just print them some chaffe," and "ban x, or y, or z."

I suppose I've always pretty much played only two houses: Targ and Greyjoy (both have had time in the sun, both have had some not so glorious times), but it seems to me that right now, the four houses are very competitively balanced. And after the two expansions, I'm hoping for six houses on fairly level playing ground; I realize that there is always going to be a strongest and a weakest in people's eyes, though. I just like going into a game and knowing my deck stands a chance against every other deck available.

foxpillow said:

There in lies the problem I believe. Where as other houses have had to deal with themes that have come and gone, or ones that are split (winter/summer, esp for baratheon), Lannisters have alway gotten cards that support their theme. They always, always get kneeling, gold and draw. On top of that, they get other control elements. The new shadows mechanics has even slipped right in with that, with Tyrion and such.

The problem is that lannister has a very tight, well controlled focus, that is powerful combining both extra resources and the cards to use them with. Design hasn't wavered from this theme, where as other houses do (bara is split between winter/summer, greyjoy between unopposed and deck discard...)

Actually, a number of themes have by and large been dropped from Lannister over the years. I'm sure I'm not the only one to remember the old announcements about how cancel and stealth would be moving from Lannister to Greyjoy and that Lannister would get challenge manipulation instead. Or that anybody really having much plot manipulation was a bad idea. Not that I feel those were exactly the right moves, and we haven't totally been locked into those outlooks since then, thankfully. Honestly, I think we might need to revisit the possible themes for all the houses. I'm sure there are things that are being overlooked that could be broadened out into each house. Sure, there would likely be some overlap, but I think we have enough ways to give each house that did overlap a recognizable flavor to them.

Oh, and for those complaining about the number of cards Lannister is getting, do keep in mind that likely means they'll recieve fewer cards in following packs. I'm sure each house is going to recieve and equal number of cards in each cycle, just like they previously did in each CCG expansion. So, if you're seeing more Lannister cards in the first couple packs of the cycle, then you will certainly see less as time goes on.

I do think that we've seen so far no more than a one or two card discrepancy for in house cards from chapter packs. Lannister's themes are tightly woven and that makes for an automatic statement that they are the best house. I do think that in melee they suffer. Kneeling down four different players to the point where you can stay on top is very difficult and runs the risk of making everyone your enemy. There limited permanent removal and power icons definitely makes them a risky choice if you are seated with Targ, Bara, and Stark. Your best bet is sow dissent and maybe use your kneels to keep the head player close to the pack and hope to make a push with a swarm of characters after a reset... but this is a really easy to spot strategy and even more easily disrupted.

In joust though thy do have the ability to lock down the strongest characters while they grab power through UO and just maintain card advantage. Styles make fights though, and pitting their card advantage against a house that can replicate that (recursion) or who only need one or two characters standing to be able to push their way through no matter how many defenders you have (intimidate), or characters that keep standing after they have been knelt (vigilant & vengeful) threatens their control of the game. The real question is will the other houses get enough support of a major theme to be able to compete easily? As I said before, the breadth of the other houses will eventually turn into the same level of depth Lannister has, but we haven't seen a lot in the way of breadth cming from Lannister, which culd put them at a disadvantage 6 months down the line.

I'd say Greyjoy will surely be getting the support for a major theme needed. Just from what has been spoiled so far, I'd say that we can see a strong resurgence of their unopposed powergrab decks.

Yeah, but I didn't want to be the one to say it. More powerful if I bump and set and someone else comes in and spikes it.

Targ has quite a lot of burn... and Drogon does not need to be knelt to take out weenies, and ambushing during challenges can muck with thier plans.

What is the translation of the 2nd Small council event?(bottom row left column)

this is how i translated it. Its rather nice if this is right.

Destroyed by the Order of the Counsel

after you win an INT challenge choose a location controlled by the losing opponent. If it has the Shadows crest return it to shadows, otherwise discard it.

dormouse said:

just an FYI, there is no possible way to be the one who bumps and sets, its ilegal for the same person to touch the ball twice in a row

Wow, so how does that event strike people for location control? Sounds great to me. Really seems like it will fill in the location control hole that we've been talking about.

Lars translation is correct.

Can someone share which cards are x1 and which are x3? I'm guessing that the x1 includes:

City of Sin, The Hound, Balon Greyjoy, Moon Boy, Beautiful Cersei, Cersei Lannister, Storm Dancer, Septa Mordane, and Catelyn Stark.

That's only 9 though, which probably means that one of the good events is only x1.

More than likely the location control event... like the previous chapter pack.

Or homeless?

I was playing around with homless as a proxy in a multiplayer game... dear god this card is kingmaking. And the event is rather interesting...

oh and uh we had an interesting outcome... the martel player managed to claim 15 power on quentyn via a couple devious machs, after I mistakenly played a forever burning... But since Mel was in play tha bara player won. It was mixed... an lcg deck, a classic deck and two standard decks.

jmccarthy said:

It would be really great (to me) if Homeless and Tears of Lys were in x3…

Here I go,

Shadow from the east

balon's rebellion

tears of lys

twilight market

lost oasis

beautifull cersei

storm dancer

Flea bottom's indigent

homeless

gold cloaks

Those are the cards that come thrice in the chapters. The other ones only come once. I hope it helps.

Kennon said:

As long as you can win that intrigue challenge. It is a good location control card, I think every house except maybe Stark and bara has a shot at getting it off. Maybe on the defense they could win... Lannis should love it.

bara should not have a problem winning an intrigue challenge. Even a bara rush deck could do it (but probably wouldn't have this card in here).

Lars said:

agreed, the only house that should have problems using the event is stark, and even stark gets off the occasional intrigue challenge

Lars said:

Way to take the analogy literally.

Stark can't kill everything on the board anymore? And then go for intrigue unopposed?