Sure they can ruin any ship pretty fast if the crits get through. That is a pretty big IF ! You can search the treads for all the post about how the dice screwed them in a game and this can go both ways. Sure the dice can go with you and could get an overwelming victory. you can accept the average and lose or have the dice against you and never hit the ships ever. In my opinion you are leaving the game to the dice if you rely on Mangler Cannon on getting you the victory on Autothrusters.

The case will be made by how the meta works out. The risk to Autothrusters is a reduction in the turreted ships being flown. If the number drops enough where these points become wasted the Mangler Cannon will out perform the HLC. SO it really boils down to where the meta stands. For all we know there could be a build in the Scum that tosses this all out the windown and leaves both the turreted ships and Autothrusters outside looking in.

Yep....3 dice attacks are almost futile against Focus+Evade Autothruster Squints, so that will be a big deal. Sure, if you throw enough 3 dice shots you'll eventually cause 1 damage here or there, but you'll never put them down in time.

4 dice is a MUCH higher chance of causing solid damage, but.....that donut

so everyone will run HLC Heavy Scyks

the meta will be overrun with swarms of glass cannons

madness will ensue

For reference, the jousting values for Dash with Mangler are in my MathWing thread. He becomes more or less like any other turreted ship, except he can dodge rocks, still wants to stay at range 3, and gets a free hit to critical.

And also, has 2 agility.

Like Extropia said, Ptl At Stealth Squints are practically immune to Mangler Cannons. Hell, they're practically immune to any 3 dice turret attacks. You need 4 dice to punch through a squints defense every other turn or so. Key to running Mangler Dash is to make sure your escort can threaten Ptl Interceptors. Dash shouldn't be shooting them at all unless hes got them in arc.

Like Extropia said, Ptl At Stealth Squints are practically immune to Mangler Cannons. Hell, they're practically immune to any 3 dice turret attacks. You need 4 dice to punch through a squints defense every other turn or so. Key to running Mangler Dash is to make sure your escort can threaten Ptl Interceptors. Dash shouldn't be shooting them at all unless hes got them in arc.

The dice gods would like to have a word with you haha seriously tho I put no trust in green dice.

That's okay, because Autothrusters literally takes that choice out of your hands. Fel with his usual setup, barring action denial will ALWAYS negate at least two damage. Token+AutoThruster. Then he just needs one or two focus or evade results.

That's okay, because Autothrusters literally takes that choice out of your hands. Fel with his usual setup, barring action denial will ALWAYS negate at least two damage. Token+AutoThruster. Then he just needs one or two focus or evade results.

Unless he Is attacked by Ten "The Crusher" Numb, armed with Mangler Cannon

For reference, the jousting values for Dash with Mangler are in my MathWing thread. He becomes more or less like any other turreted ship, except he can dodge rocks, still wants to stay at range 3, and gets a free hit to critical.

And also, has 2 agility.

That's okay, because Autothrusters literally takes that choice out of your hands. Fel with his usual setup, barring action denial will ALWAYS negate at least two damage. Token+AutoThruster. Then he just needs one or two focus or evade results.

Unless he Is attacked by Ten "The Crusher" Numb, armed with Mangler Cannon

Well, everyone's boned then. CRITACULON, REPORTING FOR DUTY.

That's okay, because Autothrusters literally takes that choice out of your hands. Fel with his usual setup, barring action denial will ALWAYS negate at least two damage. Token+AutoThruster. Then he just needs one or two focus or evade results.

Unless he Is attacked by Ten "The Crusher" Numb, armed with Mangler Cannon

This.

Forget about Dash. PS10 Ten w/ Mangler Cannon will be public enemy no.1 for all Squints w/ SD + Autothrusters. Finally that **** Sullustan will be of some use.

That's okay, because Autothrusters literally takes that choice out of your hands. Fel with his usual setup, barring action denial will ALWAYS negate at least two damage. Token+AutoThruster. Then he just needs one or two focus or evade results.

Unless he Is attacked by Ten "The Crusher" Numb, armed with Mangler Cannon

This.

Forget about Dash. PS10 Ten w/ Mangler Cannon will be public enemy no.1 for all Squints w/ SD + Autothrusters. Finally that **** Sullustan will be of some use.

I'd really worry if it wasn't a 1 agility ship i can down in two turns.

That's okay, because Autothrusters literally takes that choice out of your hands. Fel with his usual setup, barring action denial will ALWAYS negate at least two damage. Token+AutoThruster. Then he just needs one or two focus or evade results.

Unless he Is attacked by Ten "The Crusher" Numb, armed with Mangler Cannon

This.

Forget about Dash. PS10 Ten w/ Mangler Cannon will be public enemy no.1 for all Squints w/ SD + Autothrusters. Finally that **** Sullustan will be of some use.

I'd really worry if it wasn't a 1 agility ship i can down in two turns.

You forget this ship will normally fire before almost anything else in the game, there´s no way to evade 1 critical, and with advanced sensores it can move around with the barrels rolls, and then make a koigram. Believe me, Ten Numb with PS 10, the mangler cannon, and a few ships to support him will be very good against interceptors, Ties and other ships with no shields.

And from the looks of it, running SD over HU on squints is the way to go, and that'll make them even more vulnerable to Ten "Critaculon" Numb.

And from the looks of it, running SD over HU on squints is the way to go, and that'll make them even more vulnerable to Ten "Critaculon" Numb.

Sorry, I am spanish and there are a few things I don´t know the meaning.

What means "SD" "HU and squints?

Thank you!!!

And from the looks of it, running SD over HU on squints is the way to go, and that'll make them even more vulnerable to Ten "Critaculon" Numb.

Sorry, I am spanish and there are a few things I don´t know the meaning.

What means "SD" "HU and squints?

Thank you!!!

SD = Stealth Device

HU = Hull Upgrade

Squints = TIE Interceptors (an expanded universe nickname)

For reference, the jousting values for Dash with Mangler are in my MathWing thread. He becomes more or less like any other turreted ship, except he can dodge rocks, still wants to stay at range 3, and gets a free hit to critical.

And also, has 2 agility.

That gets wrapped up in the net durability. It makes him riskier than 1 or 0 agi, but with generally greater durability. C-3PO notwithstanding.

Lol k I didn't know that (I'm not very good at calculating stuff like that)

It's a firepower increase with perks and no disadvantages, cheaper than the HLC set up too.

I doubt you will see a YT-2400 without Outrider and Mangler cannon at the minimum (HLC at the most). Although this does make Eaden Vrill even more scarce.

It's a firepower increase with perks and no disadvantages, cheaper than the HLC set up too.

I doubt you will see a YT-2400 without Outrider and Mangler cannon at the minimum (HLC at the most). Although this does make Eaden Vrill even more scarce.

I'm not sure about this. Vrill isn't paying a 9 point tax to get his 3 dice. If there's a reason to take Vrill now, there's a reason to take him after Mangler Cannon hits.

That's okay, because Autothrusters literally takes that choice out of your hands. Fel with his usual setup, barring action denial will ALWAYS negate at least two damage. Token+AutoThruster. Then he just needs one or two focus or evade results.

Unless he Is attacked by Ten "The Crusher" Numb, armed with Mangler Cannon

This.

Forget about Dash. PS10 Ten w/ Mangler Cannon will be public enemy no.1 for all Squints w/ SD + Autothrusters. Finally that **** Sullustan will be of some use.

I'd really worry if it wasn't a 1 agility ship i can down in two turns.

You do have a point there I'll admit, which is why Ten needs to be accompanied with the right support ships.

That's okay, because Autothrusters literally takes that choice out of your hands. Fel with his usual setup, barring action denial will ALWAYS negate at least two damage. Token+AutoThruster. Then he just needs one or two focus or evade results.

Unless he Is attacked by Ten "The Crusher" Numb, armed with Mangler Cannon

This.

Forget about Dash. PS10 Ten w/ Mangler Cannon will be public enemy no.1 for all Squints w/ SD + Autothrusters. Finally that **** Sullustan will be of some use.

I'd really worry if it wasn't a 1 agility ship i can down in two turns.

You do have a point there I'll admit, which is why Ten needs to be accompanied with the right support ships.

which is tricky because you want a swarm with him to max his ability but no one in their right mind will go for z-95s first, and biggs shrinks the number of ships too much to make his ability truly effective.

Hello, just bringing this thread back up from the dead!

I am wondering about this and it seems that most of this argument is about the meta. I play in a casual club and we don't follow the meta or do net lists as such... so I am wondering about a mangler dash vs tie swarms, which do appear quite often. Little buggers have no mods.. so hopefully they will be critted to death.

I am downloading vassal to experiment on there first though! haha

I had a pretty long phase of running Dash with the Mangler. My favourite combo now is Mangler, Outrider, Predator and Chopper.

The main difference with this build is that mobility actions are nowhere near as important. The barrel roll is still useful to get off an asteroid and get out of an arc now and then, but mostly this Dash build can just keep firing away. You no longer need Engine Upgrade or Push the Limit or Kyle, and It is much less vulnerable to stress or bumps compared with the classic Super Dash, and it won't die to something like Soontir or Whisper staying in the donut hole. It is also much cheaper at just 48 points. I can afford to run Biggs with R4-D6 and integrated and a Stresshog (Y-wing with TLT and A4 title), which are two of the best rebel ships, alongside this Dash build.

That being said, once the Kanan card came out, I started running the Rainbow Dash build (Push the Limit, Heavy Laser Cannon, Outrider, Engine upgrade, Kanan) and had a lot of success with this, and I prefer it to the classic Super Dash (same but with Kyle Katarn).

4 dice is huge, but the donut certainly is a significant weakness. Mangler Dash is rarely seen, but I've won more games than I've lost with Mangler Dash, Biggs and a Stresshog. I'd certainly say it's worth giving it a go.

4 dice will take out swarms better than 3 and a critical, provided you have modifiers. Rainbow dash (though i hare that name) is the best option imo, since a swarm will barely be able to catch you. Also, swarms are hardly going to chase the donut much so mangler isn't needed.

To old, to make my post a valid answer.

I am wondering about this and it seems that most of this argument is about the meta. I play in a casual club and we don't follow the meta or do net lists as such... so I am wondering about a mangler dash vs tie swarms, which do appear quite often. Little buggers have no mods.. so hopefully they will be critted to death.

I think that HLC is better than Mangler at swatting Tie swarms. Ties have no shields but they can have mods, even the humble Academy pilot will often have a Focus or Evade token for defense and Agility 3 will help to blunt the effect of your firepower somewhat. So a 4 dice shot is more likely to deal damage and actually make it stick. Death by a thousand crits is more effective when taking down large base ships. With Ties, you just want to swat the blighters as quickly as possible and move on.